Well, I guess I might as well touch on this. A while ago I remember a case (I’m not saying names but people may remember) when a user once posted something like ‘yeah’ and the user was a long time user, and the post got quite a handful of likes. But then another, news user said basically ‘yeah’ and got no to a few likes. This could be an isolated case tho.
That’s not to say this always happens, but sometimes the user is a factor in likes, especially if they are a good poster and don’t post often. Usually less of something is more appreciated, one of the points that is trying to be made with this whole ordeal.
I’m going to back you up on this and say this is correct.
This is also true. It seems that the site actually handles the shorter posts worse, maybe the long posts need less time to process or something. Idk how it works.
The users page is the post solid eve since on the site there is. There are statistics as previously mentioned however they are not publicly available to all users. However, tho less adenced, the most concrete evidence would be that page.
I remember this. Like I said, earlier, there was another example of this and I think you had an even better one than I.
This also frequently happens when the “OG users” log on. (People who were the very first masters) Many of them rarely still visit, so people like their posts. Like I said in my last post,[quote=“moa, post:70, topic:28389”]
After all, I am not exactly new to these boards.
[/quote]
I have seen it happen.
Exactly. Spammy memes are outlawed, but they weren’t outlawed today. People seem to be forgetting this.
Thank you!
This was the perfect post TBH, you summed up everything in a paragraph.
I think everyone is missing that jokes aren’t outlawed, we just should add more
discussion and actual thoughts to the jokes, and to be less spammy about how we use these memes.
I didn’t end up saying something really dumb right? I do that from time to time.
ye sorry bout that m8, been wanting to say that for a while but didn’t want to get into the war going on earlier.
(and 403 really doesn’t want me to either)
I get what you are trying to say and having just read this entire topic I’m wishing Judge Judy had a boards account (Yes I watch that show, so what?). I see great points from both sides of the argument, but I don’t exactly see what this argument is going to achieve. It’s like trying to start a petition on Change.com to get Makuta or the MOUP. As Kah… er, Jon, has said [quote=“Jon, post:1, topic:9196”]
This website is not a democracy. It’s a dictatorship.
[/quote]
Bionicle ended recently and I’m pretty sure now isn’t a good time to be arguing about adding a few lines of text to an image.
I get the idea of stating your points and they are pretty good ones, but I don’t think arguing is going to change anything. And I’m 99% sure TTV isn’t doing this to harm us (but everything Eljay says is wrong no matter how right it is. That’s why we need a new leader, a leader not afraid of having his identity stolen and being killed in his sleep, a leader like me! VOTE KOPEKE FOR ELJAY 2016!), Takuma helped build the website so I’m pretty sure he would have a good grasp of the going-ons behind the boards.
(Unless I’m an idiot and he actually doesn’t and I’m spewing stuff without thinking this through.)
I’m pretty sure this whole comment was meaningless and did jack squat to help but those are just my thoughts.
Bunched a few of these quotes together to save space and make it flow better. You can refer back for the full context, not trying to mislead anyone.
As per Eljay’s comment here, that response with just an image without text would be breaking this new rule.
You have no evidence to support even a single aspect of your claim and it is simply not possible for you to judge how much someone finds something amusing. Your viewpoint is completely baseless - so I’m hard pressed to view it as anything other than a lie. Inaccurate? Misinformation? Misguided? Misconstrued? -shrugs- Whatever the proper term is.
Eljay, put simply, you actually do not have a single piece of data that measures user amusement - it simply isn’t included on this site. You made a remark about users experiencing amusement that was completely without facts. People finding meme’s or these videos or images humorous is NOT something the board has statistics on. There is no factual evidence you have.
I am measuring something easily traceable - user engagement in topics and comments. There are an absolute ton of ways you can measure this ranging from likes, comments, individual users, repeat viewings, frequent users, new users, etc…
One of the ways to do this is to take a random topic and see how many people have broken this rule in the past and how many likes they received is an actual statistic on the board - its a measurable aspect and I’ve shown some of those to you in the previous post. The boards document every like and comment (at least those not removed) and there is over a years worth of evidence on my side that any user can easily spot by simply finding memes or instances of this rule being broken previously. The highest levels of engagement come from images, new topics, or heated discussions.
In this debate, i am the one using the board statistics while you are claiming to know people’s personal amusement based on… well… nothing, Your passing off something as factual without showing anything behind it or backing it up with anything. There is no way to measure personal amusement nor to factually claim its a small group doing this - which is especially odd because this wouldn’t be an issue if it was just a small group that was doing so not noticed.
You can see the frequent posters directly under the first post (For example the Bionicle 2016 topic has 24) and you can see roughly the level of response that memes or images without comments get (22 likes on that image without discussion posted previously)
The frequent posters are your core fan base for that topic, the people who return time after time to post comments and interact and generally contribute. They are almost equalled by the number of members who found the image insightful, meaningful or to have some level of humour to warrant giving it a like.
The boards don’t have to cater to either side, but to claim that the majority of the boards simply don’t find things amusing (by claiming only a small group do) is alienating one side and implying the other side don’t find aspects funny even though once again, no way of measuring this.
If memes can or do provide commentary they are providing a discussion or an avenue for discussion - meaning they would indeed contribute to discussion.
Surprisingly the most engagement this topic has had other than the main post and Looch leaving is in people sharing their own thoughts/opinions on the rule.
Actually Eljay stated it wont do a single thing to solve the 403 errors as quoted above. This ‘friendly reminder’ is to do with the speed of the boards, which nobody has really had any issues with (Or at least no one has made a bug topic about it on the boards)
Staff from Project Message have admitted that removing Project Message has done nothing to help the 502 or 403 errors and they actually seem to have increased after the PM was deleted.
I’m personally making a tribute to the PM and its members parodying how terribad its death was xD Its kind of the final board related funny thing for a lot of the PM’s members (Pretty much the Master’s of the boards) who have now left the boards completely.
User engagement is something i often have talked about on the boards. Project Message was founded by mods so that they could interact with users and that they’d have a way to chat and things. It was so popular and sought after, with people trying to gain Master to get in, because that is the heart of the boards - the people and the way they interact. Sadly i feel the boards are losing a lot of people due to the 403 and interacting is made increasingly difficult due to that error - the timing of this rule and its rather unclear explanation does not help.
I understand you are swamped, i know you are very likely putting in a lot of time and effort into doing work and to try and find a solution to the 403 error that is no doubt causing the staff as much or even more stress than several of the users - amongst the other issues that the boards may have.
I am honestly not trying to cause any arguments here and have tried to explain my points in mature and meaningful ways by going in-depth - granted that means longer posts however it also means more aspects can be tackled as long as its read.
Regarding this rule, i have some queries given how poorly it seems it has been explained given users are still getting this rule incorrect (Such as users believing this will fix 403, that it only applies to memes, etc…) Its clear its been explained badly so users are confused about what it means.
#Query 1; Data usage
While I get what Eljay is saying here about a bunch of people only posting images, however i don’t see how the new rule is actually supposed to make the issue of data usage diminish.
And how does adding five words somehow make it use less data than having it use just an image? If it helps the boards that’s good, but the way its being explained makes it difficult to imagine if it even would help…
#Query 2; What actually qualifies
Going with the above image again, including five words basically telling people to look at the image according to Eljay somehow doesn’t qualify as rule breaking, so can you clarify why a comment not adding discussion attached to an image that is effectively a meme is not considered rule breaking?
#Query 3; Why the random jabs at users finding things amusing?
This topic, despite its name, as stated by Eljay several times is not about memes - though they may slightly be covered by the rule. Its about images, gifs or videos being posted without a comment accompanying them which it seems he personally views as both non-contributing to discussion and yet also providing commentary (Contradictory much?)
Yet despite how humour and amusement does not factor into this rule, it was brought up immediately along with claiming that a small group of the boards is the only ones who would find these things amusing, Are we to really believe that jokes such as Mardi Gras or other TTV related images, gif’s or videos are only liked by a very tiny minority and that the rest of the boards don’t find it amusing because that’s the way its portrayed here It didn’t have a place and has been the source of all heated discussions on this topic between almost every member and Eljay - so why was it there when it isn’t supported factually? (You cant measure amusement on this site)
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Shall leave it as three queries for now, hopefully explains the issues with how its been explained. A general summary or list of a trimmed down version of the points @IllustriousVar would probably help users a lot.
Something like;
Helps with speed of boards
Does not fix 403
Does/does not apply to update posts in MOC or art topics
Etc…
(Not sure if these are all accurate, but hopefully you get the idea)
(Once again, excuse typo’s due to 403’s)
Edit; Just had a new error ‘unspecified error’ guess that is some progress if its changed from 403…
There was also another topic “The Boards are becoming difficult to navigate” that was closed and deleted because of the… harsh words of the topic creator.
And I can site several posts in a certain PM about the loading speed of the boards.
Point is, practically everyone has complained about it.
This topic was made 18 days ago, during which the 502 error was active. Primarily this was/is the cause of the slow servers. The topic has been inactive since because the 502 error was fixed/turned into the 403 which doesn’t affect loading times as often (its more post/like related)
Speed of the boards is not a factor regarding the errors here, you can see multiple people in that topic mentioning the 502 error as the cause - because that’s what they were having issue with. Though Legomaster did mention solutions that could help fix the issue.
Legomaster has actually mentioned precisely why this new method of still uploading images but simply having text will not change the data usage. As he explains, its the uploading of images to the server is what causes slow loading (other than errors) - a problem that could reasonably be fixed by just encouraging people to use a hosting site for images rather than trying to reduce amount of images posted by getting people to add a bit of text also.
In essence, wouldn’t this solve the errors a lot more effectively? Encourage fans to use a hosting site or link images via a different site rather than upload = less strain on servers.
I don’t think I’ve said this, but this rule really isn’t very well explained. At first, the basic idea of “don’t post a single video, image, gif, or the like without also adding text” made sense. It had an easy loophole, add canned text, and I didn’t think it would really fix much, but it was clear and easy to follow. However, the discussion here has really jumbled things up, and now I’m no longer sure what constitutes breaking the rule or not. If this is a rule that is enforced on subjectivity, where some posts that “break” this rule will be considered valuable to the discussion, and others considered spam on a case-by-case basis, that’s fair. I’d like to hear someone actually say that if it is the case. If it’s not, and it’s a blanket rule, then as I said earlier, it hardly changes anything. Adding a couple words that mean effectively nothing and add very little to the discussion brings a post from “I made a joke” to “I made a joke, but now it’s in accordance with the rules.” In either case, it’s just a silly joke. Very little changes. I don’t mind this rule, I can follow it pretty easily, as can many others, but quite frankly, I just haven’t seen a good reason as to why it exists. It isn’t related to fixing any errors, people are still going to post just as many data-consuming images, videos, etc. and all it does is make people add forced dialogue that, in most cases, will likely add nothing more to the conversation than before. This is an assumption, sure, but it’s based on a personal experience. Every time I post an image, gif, video, etc. I always feel the need to write something with it so it doesn’t come off as off-topic (as stated in an earlier reply). I can honestly say that, despite my wonderful mastery of the English language and my incredible writing skill, half of the time the comments I add to one of these posts are complete malarkey.
Look, I don’t personally mind the rule, I basically followed it before it was in place anyway, but I would enjoy seeing a solid reason as to its existence, since clearly people are upset about it.
Here’s fact one: we have something that does measure that. It’s called likes.
Here’s fact two: we have something that’s more important than likes. It’s called data charges.
So when we pay for the boards, we have to pay for data. A ton of text posts is super small in space. A ton of image posts is not.
You know why people lock their doors? I mean, most houses usually have windows too, right? What’s to stop someone from throwing a rock through it and walking in?
There’s this theory that there’s this group of people that will never enter a house with a front door unlocked and opened, because they’re moral like that. There’s another group of people who will always enter a house, lock or not. They can enter in through a window, or break in the back.
But the majority of people, some say 98% of people, are part of a third group. This group will enter a house if it’s unlocked and open. But if it’s locked, they won’t think twice about going in. The fact that there’s some obstacle in their way overrides any curiosity they might have. They end up thinking it isn’t worth it.
Adding text to the images isn’t going to deter space from being taken up. Rather, what we’re hoping it will do is defer the majority of the people who do not have anything to contribute outside of that message. The idea is that most people, who will want to post an image, realize that there’s more work to do it than they realize and will leave the post on the cutting room floor. It deters the post from being made in the first place.
We don’t want to cut images out entirely, we don’t want to cut our functionality out entirely. We don’t even want to cut funny images/memes out entirely. But because of the level they can be spammed, because of how easy it is to spam them, we are adding our own little lock on the door. Will it defer the spam? To be honest, we’re not sure. But, you’d better hope so, because if not we will actually have to start cutting funny images/memes entirely. We don’t have the space or the money to keep it going otherwise.
Sidenote: it is also worthwhile to mention that we are 1. The people that determine what is spam and 2. the people that decide what is amusing. These are our boards, and we while we understand that not everyone has the same type of humor that we do, there does come a point where we will shut down trends that we think do not contribute to what we would consider discussion if they actively start hurting us.
So you can imagine that, when it comes to money we have to pay out of our pocket vs. images/meme replies that we don’t even consider worthwhile, we are going to put our foot down. That’s what we’re dealing with.
The software we use directly reuploads the images to our boards in order to preserve archiving. This is so that topics can still be seen with the original context, going back to the beginning of the boards, in case those sites go down. This is an especially useful feature for us, because we in the LEGO community have been very weary of alternate hosting sites since Majhost and Brickshelf have gone down, and up, and down again. This way, we can see images like MOCs and Artwork in their original, preserved glory no matter when you look at our boards.
Where it starts making less sense for us is when images contain stuff we’re not really that eager to host, like memes, funny images, or reaction gifs. But the software can’t distinguish between the two, and we’ve already been burned by Majhost and Brickshelf to commit to moving everything offsite. And honestly, we don’t find a lot of the non-original, creative content all to worth preserving to begin with.
So you can see why we’re making this rule now, and why we’re probably still going to stick to our guns.
There we go, an explanation. You’re doing this as a deterrent. Now, I definitely don’t know if this will work (I think it’ll work a little bit, but won’t have a large enough impact to matter much, but that’s just me), but hey, you’re optimistic about it. Now that I understand it’s a deterrent and it’s based on data usage, I have a reasonable explanation. I wish that was given to everyone in the first place, and as directly as you just put it, maybe people would’ve argued a bit less about issues that, as it turns out, weren’t that relevant to the problem.
Seem to be getting a weird error, it doesn’t let me post says ‘unspecified error’ and then shows an additional reply to whoever I’m quoting - so if it multiposts this, please delete the duplicates :L
As Kahi/Jon has now clarified, unfortunately this wouldn’t work. Would have been great if it did though.
This rule as stated by Eljay, seems to encourage the combination of both an image and text in a singular post. As you mention later its idea is to defer people from just posting a meme without contributing to discussion, that i understand - just a deterrent wont have an effect if the rules regarding the image posting are unclear and i feel the level of relevant text may need to be decided so that people can contribute.
As said by myself and others, your boards, your choices and things. Very few people have issue with the rule, if any, its just the phrasing and unclear nature of the rule that seem to be causing confusion.
As you mentioned, you determine what is spam - so what level of relevancy or how many words determine if a meme with a bit of text above is breaking the rule is unclear to the general user - and they ideally need to have a general idea so they can follow the rule effectivel.
Its just by bringing up the amusement angle it added a factor that didn’t seem connected to the rule, by not mentioning it, things would likely have passed smoothly with this just being viewed as a mild addition to one of the previously established rules about not posting solely images or aspects that don’t contribute to discussion (The rule that closed topics such as the CTRL+V topic)
Ah ok, didn’t realise that was how it works. I suppose it makes sense with preserving aspects, though can see why memes and things would not be worth storing. Odd that it also happens with aspects hosted on other sites and posted to the boards.
Can see why this sort of deterrent is necessary now, though admittedly it will only be effective if it is not only followed, but also convinces members not to upload images as much - which unfortunately is going to be difficult considering that fans are trying to keep themes like Bionicle alive by doing MOC’s or artwork, which while they are the intended thing to store on the boards, are becoming more popular meaning more images.
Anyway, I think that people really have been overreacting and misinterpreting the rule (myself included). After thinking about it a little, it’s pretty obvious that this rule isn’t going to really negatively affect the Boards in any way. Memes are still allowed, just make sure to add a little bit of worthwhile discussion as well. I always find it kinda sad when I see MoCs that people work really hard on and just get joke replies and similar things…
I see that sometimes, a picture can really streamline the discussion. (Notably in the example often referred to above.) As has been mentioned before, it reduces the likelihood of a miscommunication significantly.
However, from what I’ve seen, this is seldom the case. I often see memes used as jokes in topics instead of people actually attempting to add to conversation. This hasn’t personally happened to me, but I can see why it would annoy the creators. When I create a topic, I want to hear people’s thoughts. It would be really annoying to see I had a reply to my MOC, and have it be a “triggered” meme.
This entire discussion has been quite interesting, and honestly entertaining. Let’s be honest here, what did we even lose? Posts containing a single meme or video? Cool.
It’s kind of funny what people will do for their memes. Memes aren’t even banned, and if anything this’ll help the site run better, which I’m quite sure we all want.
