BIONICLE G1 Canon Contests Discussion & Questions

Then don’t let him. It does no harm to, a couple of months before the contests even begin, decide that one’s assets are free for use in the public, as Galva, KingSidorak, and now KhingK have done. It does do harm to, once some of the community has gotten to work on planning and building their designs, suddenly say “oh btw I change my mind lul don’t use my masks” if anyone was planning on using those assets.

I could understand if this was a last-minute decision, but Khing took a couple of days to change his mind, and the Helryx contest is still about 2 months out.

When a creator makes a last-minute decision that would actively screw over a potentially large portion of the entrants, you are under no obligation to reflect that decision except in case of emergency. Reversals of previous decisions shouldn’t be honored during the voting period because that’s way too last-minute, but Khing’s given everyone plenty of time here.

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I’m totally in support of Eljay/TTV’s decision here. Allowing people to use his masks, and then maintaining the ability to revoke that at any time would allow Khing to single-handedly disqualify entrants he doesn’t like. It gives him, who was not approved by Greg or anyone else to run or manage these contests, the ability to remove entries at his whim. I’m not saying he WOULD do this, but it’s a precedent that doesn’t need to be allowed in the first place. TTV is under no obligation to bend over to his request to change what has already been decided upon.

And, ultimately, despite my enjoyment of custom or 3D printed pieces, and my intention to enter some MOCs with them, none of us NEED to use them. The entire point of holding the art contests for mask design separately was so that those using custom mask designs wouldn’t have any unfair advantage or bearing over the results of the MOC contests, as far as I was aware. With the exception of Toa Pouks, any other masks made by Khing wouldn’t matter if they were used to begin with, because said characters mask designs will be decided separately by the art contests anyway.

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With all due respect, I would suggest that his reversal be allowed, for a number of reasons:

  1. It’s still very early in the contests, over a month and a half before the first character is opened, so there is still plenty of time before things really get going.

  2. A cut off date for other 3D modellers can be implemented after this is allowed without much of a hassle to anyone.

  3. To my knowledge, nothing was set in stone for the information before this topic was opened, making it understandable that @MaskMaker may have wanted to be wary and opt out before details were concrete.

For these reasons, I respectfully disagree with shooting down their reentry into the contest.

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You admit that he likely wouldn’t do this, but as @SirKeksalot stated, the judges do not need to allow this if they state unequivocally that, once the official entry period for the first contest begins, whichever creators are in or out cannot reverse their decisions any longer. That gives him until June to make his final decision.

Where did he admit this? This seems like a pretty personal claim to make, and I don’t recall him using language that indicated that when he first chose to deny the use of his parts.

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Against my better judgement, I couldn’t resist the temptation to start Artakha… I hadn’t remembered he was gray green, so this’ll be interesting.

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I must agree with Eljay’s decision. Allowing 3d modellers to go back and forth on their decisions allows them to do things like this:

“Hey, the competition used my masks. I’ll sabotage them by banning my masks at the last minute.”

“I want to use this mask, but I must make sure no one else does. I know! I’ll ban the use of my parts until just before the entry period ends, then unban them and submit my completed model.”

Not saying Maskmaker would do this, but the possibility exists.

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Well, I won’t say you’re correct or incorrect on that, since we don’t have the evidence at hand. Besides, @MaskMaker himself is more fit to clarify his own thought process.

But I think the point still stands that, regardless of whatever might have been said, jokingly or not, the information that was given out to creators about allowing their models to be used was very vague, and did not mention whether reversals would be allowed or not, as far as most of us can recall. It seems arbitrarily severe to refuse a legitimate and thought-out change-of-mind on this issue, especially since we all know that the designs of the person in question are well-respected among the community.

And the additional point that was made, regarding the fact that the judges can (and should) have the ultimate say on when the cutoff point for withdrawing one’s designs is, has not yet been properly addressed.

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That’s true, and when the competition actually begins I fully agree, but the beginning of the entry period does not start for well over a month yet. It’s not exactly last minute.

It’s not even first minute.

It’s, like, negative a great many minutes before the competition. :stuck_out_tongue:

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We want you all to know that we value your feedback and that we are open to listening and making corrections when it’s deemed necessary. We want these contests to be the best they can be for the entire community, and as such, we’ve been reading through all the responses to Eljay’s post, talking about it extensively between ourselves and other community heads, and we have decided to allow @MaskMaker to resubmit his masks. In addition, any 3D modelers in the community have until the beginning of the Helryx contest to either grant or withhold permission for their models to be used.

This does not mean that our opinions on the matter have changed, merely that we acknowledge the various points of view raised and we’re gonna put the greater good of the contest first. What I implore you all to understand is that the reason we didn’t want people to change their stances back-and-forth is to preserve the integrity of the contests. We’re doing unprecedented stuff here, and there’s a ton of moving parts… our desire to allow 3D printed pieces stemmed solely from a place of wanting to respect the community and acknowledge the boundless creativity of everybody in it, but we had extensive discussions with the team at RSG and others who expressed concerns. Giving the mask creators the ability to give or withhold permission was our compromise to allow them to decide their own path forward on a case-by-case basis based on what they believe to be best.

When that choice is changed and the decision reversed, it casts the integrity of our contest plan and our ruleset in an ambiguous light. If people don’t know what the rules are, how can they follow them? How can they start planning their builds? How can they be expected to know what pieces they can and can’t use if people keep changing their stances on a dime? I understand that this is the only time it’s happened so far, but the only reason Eljay laid down the law in the manner he did was because we do not want to appear wishy-washy or indecisive. We want to have a clear and consistent message going forward so people know what they’re expected to do, and we don’t want to set a precedent that the rules mean nothing because they can be upended at a moment’s notice.

That being said, Khing never spoke to us on the matter, so we never got to hear his opinions and have that conversation with him. There’s plenty of 3D modelers we haven’t spoken to about this, but I promise you, we’d love to! If you have any concerns, questions, or comments, we encourage you to talk to us. We’re always available, and we want to have that conversation. We intend for these contests to be the best they can be, and for what it’s worth, I still firmly believe that allowing 3D printed pieces is the way to do that.

With that all being said, for the purpose of public knowledge, I’m going to reiterate the following to any 3D modelers in the BIONICLE community, and will be adding this to the main post:

You have until June 1st, 12:00 AM EDT, AKA the beginning of the Helryx contest, to revise your stance on allowing 3D printed pieces. If a public statement hasn’t been made by that date stating that your pieces are allowed to be used in contest entries, they will be presumed to NOT be allowed. Once the clock strikes that time, you won’t be allowed to change your stance. We’re not trying to be jerks with that, but we are trying to conduct ourselves in a consistent manner, and maintaining a clear message and ruleset is a part of that.

Thank you all for continuing to give feedback and participate in the formation of these contests! We appreciate it more than we can say, and we’re looking forward to getting started.

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You have until June 1st, 12:00 AM EDT, AKA the beginning of the Helryx contest, to revise your stance on allowing 3D printed pieces. If a public statement hasn’t been made by that date stating that your pieces are allowed to be used in contest entries, they will be presumed to NOT be allowed. Once the clock strikes that time, you won’t be allowed to change your stance. We’re not trying to be jerks with that, but we are trying to conduct ourselves in a consistent manner, and maintaining a clear message and ruleset is a part of that.

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You have until June 1st, 12:00 AM EDT, AKA the beginning of the Helryx contest, to revise your stance on allowing 3D printed pieces.

If a public statement hasn’t been made by that date stating that your pieces are allowed to be used in contest entries, they will be presumed to NOT be allowed.

Once the clock strikes that time, you won’t be allowed to change your stance.

Just need to make sure that is is very clear and understood.

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Thank you for this insight–your thoughtfulness and willingness to engage with us on this is extremely appreciated.

I totally understand the many concerns in place, and how this must be a very complex situation for all of you to have to manage, so I hope you all know that–whatever we may be debating–I, and hopefully everyone else, will respect the choices you make no matter what they are, or whether we agree with them.

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Friendly heads-up - you might want to update this statement. :wink:

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Duly noted! Thank you XD

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You mean we can use the 3d printed pieces in Stud.io? If so, it took eme a while to connect the dots lol. Well, that makes sense.

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I’m gonna toss my opinion out here, but I firmly believe that 3d art should be included for consideration in the art portion of the contests.

Every program I use is free or open source for anyone to use.

3d art takes no more or less effort than 2d digital art.

This contest is about finding the best possible representations for these characters, and I don’t appreciate having my art medium restricted to such an unnecessary degree.

I was planning on creating full, rigged character models of the winning creations, with custom masks and weapons to submit for the second half of the contest. Now I’m effectively cut out of the contest entirely.

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At the risk of starting another debate, would it be acceptable to everyone if we suggested separate art contests for 2D/traditional artwork and 3D artwork?

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Agree completely. 3D artwork should be considered just as valid as 2D for the mask design and artwork sections.

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Reposting this since it seems to have gotten buried.

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I strongly agree. At the very least, 3-D models could be provided as supplements. I’ve seen your character models and I don’t think it’s right to exclude them because they aren’t drawings, especially because your character models are movie tier. Hope more of your stuff makes it in!

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