BIONICLE G1 Canon Contests Discussion & Questions

[barraki124]

i have a question are lego studs allowed

[Toa_Radrix]

@barraki124

i have a question are lego studs allo

Obviously.

[HPDeskjet]

I’m not a very active user on here, so I only get news and updates from the canonization contests through the grapevine.

It has come to my attention that for certain characters, the artist is the one who decides what the mask on the moc ultimately looks like. That image is then placed on BS01.

a) Please confirm/clarify if that is correct.
b) I fail to see the point of this. Why should the moccer, who went through all that trouble to make a high quality creation and win a contest, have to sit in the backseat while an artist makes an image based off of that creation, then picks whatever mask, and that is the one that ends up on BS01? If this, frankly convoluted, process is to make sure what a suitable mask is chosen by the masses, then why bother allowing 3D printed masks in the first place, since the artist will just choose whatever.
c) A growing concern of mine is that many of the contest processes were not voted upon. I understand that you conversed with other people and the time for voting is over (even though that vote was simply to green light the contest and not for any processes), it still leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

[Krelikan]

I’m going to answer these to the best of my abilities, but people can correct if they feel I made a mistake.
A) From my understanding it is the winning artist in most cases who decides what the mask looks like.

B) I can kind of agree with you on this. Of course the creater of the winning moc can enter a mask design if they want to and people may more inclined to vote for theirs since it’s their moc. In the end though the community as a whole should be the one deciding what a character looks like. Not one person. I do think however the moc creater should maybe get two votes on the art portion.

I having nothing to say about C

[HPDeskjet]

@Krelikan

1. In the end though the community as a whole should be the one deciding what a character looks like. Not one person.

2. I do think however the moc creater should maybe get two votes on the art portion.

1. …Isn’t that why you voted on the moc in the first place? If I understand correctly, a kanohi isn’t required on a moc due to the whole 3D mask fiasco and now this art thing, but come on, basically every moc will have a kanohi on if the character calls for one. When you vote, the voter base is deciding, as a community, what the mask should be. When you decide to vote for a moc, you are therefore accepting/preferring that choice of mask that will invariably be included with it. And even if you make the decision to do your best and judge the entries solely on the build minus the mask, your vote represents you accepting the mask. There is no such thing as a partial vote in this context.

2. While this is simple in practice, it is still complicating things when these contests are already a morass of unannounced nuances.

[Eljay]

@Underscore

Would a part like this need to be monochromatic, or can we color each section independently?

Monochrome.

@sunkenave

can tyres be used in the mocs to add more mass to parts? such as putting them over limb piece’s or no?

That’s fine.

@Gilahu

Would it be allowed for someone to build a custom head design depicting an as of yet non-canon mask, upload it on the TTV Message Boards with a building tutorial and allow for it to be used by others for the contests?

Since this is basically no different from providing a 3D printed mask, that would be alright for heads/masks, right?

That should be fine, as long as the permission is blatant.

@Kadator

However, some rules do not seem legitimate.
The age limit at 13? We all know that our first BIONICLE was not for some at 13 years old. Lehvak was mine, and I was only 8 years old … I had no idea that he would not be the last. And even less than this simple Bohrok was part of a huge story, where I still learn it every day !

This is never change. A former member of ours tried to make this argument and it isn’t going to change. 13 is the age limit. It’s a matter of law and the reason LEGO employees can be here at all.

@Kadator

So give me a good reason for the silhouette of Witch Doctor to join a Toa team. What? This set is a Hero Factory and not a Bionicle.

If someone enters Witch Doctor, then don’t vote for it. This is a silly concern.

@Infrared

Can people get feedback on MOCs and revise them before entering? It seems consistent with the spirit of the rules. That said, iirc BZP contests didn’t let people revise MOCs between originally posting them and submitting them as entries, so best to check first. Thank you!

Totally fine.

@JamesTKirk916

What exactly constitutes a breakdown photo?

I’m not sure what about this concept is difficult to understand. A breakdown photo is something that breaks a part of the MOC down to show how it’s built, while not needing to make full instructions.

@Everox

I see a problem with this system. If the winner of the MOC contest uses a 3D printed kanohi & custom weapons as depictions of the character, the illustrators and artists won’t get to even participate in the contest. I am correct in this assumption?

You are wrong in that assumption. It goes like this:

MOC is made. MOC is entered into contest. MOCs are voted on, and MOC wins. MOC then becomes to baseline for the character. A second contest begins. Artists have the choice to illustrate the mask however they want. If it’s the mask on the MOC, then they just draw the MOC. If it’s a different or new mask, they draw the mask and the MOC wearing the mask. Mask/MOC entries go to vote. Highest voted entry gets sent to Greg Farshtey for approval.

@HPDeskjet

It has come to my attention that for certain characters, the artist is the one who decides what the mask on the moc ultimately looks like. That image is then placed on BS01.

Right and wrong. Artists have the choice to draw an entirely new mask or draw the one featured on the MOC. The art is really for BS01, but both MOC and art entries will be sent to Greg Farshtey.

Hope that clears some things up.

[Krelikan]

1. [quote=“HPDeskjet, post:327, topic:51546”]
   When you decide to vote for a moc, you are therefore accepting/preferring that choice of mask that will invariably be included with it.
   [/quote]

If people are applying the rules correctly then the mask shouldn’t be a variable from the start.[quote=“HPDeskjet, post:327, topic:51546”]
your vote represents you accepting the mask
[/quote]

Not if people already have it in their heads that the mask does not matter. We’re not supposed to judge the moc by the mask at all.

2. Yeah, I don’t think something like two votes would happen anyways.

[HPDeskjet]

@Krelikan

1. If people are applying the rules correctly then the mask shouldn’t be a variable from the start.

2. Not if people already have it in their heads that the mask does not matter. We’re not supposed to judge the moc by the mask at all.

Alright, then, I can therefore use absolutely anything at all for the mask, even a single 2x4 red system brick, and I’d still have an equal chance at winning then, by that logic. The thing is, it really doesn’t work that way in practice. You cannot help but take the entirety of the moc into consideration as it is presented to you as such. Presentation matters in any contest entry, or any sort of body of work, for that matter. If I made a powerpoint presentation with nothing but white background and black text, and the following presentation had some simple colours and easy-to-follow text, that one would be better received, even if the subject matter was identical.

This is getting somewhat off the rails of my original concern, however, which was the artist essentially having full control over finalizing the moc, regardless of what the moccer’s initial intentions were, thereby taking that much away of the moccer’s efforts. And, now that Eljay has clarified it to me, so say the BS01 art drawn by the artist has Mask A, but the moccer dislikes that and wants to use Mask B. What then? which is the “canon” form? Do you respect the moccer’s wishes or are they overridden by rules decided by a few? Furthermore, and I do not mean this ironically, this situation is the best sort of compromise: potentially, both parties, the moccer and the artist, are in a losing situation. (After all, they say the best compromises leaves everyone unhappy). The moccer may not like the artwork produced, disagree with the mask choice, etc. etc. The artist may not like the winning entry yet are forced to draw it anyways.

This entire situation is just rather messy. I know Eljay has stated that he’s done a lot of work behind the scenes to try and satisfy all sides, but, truth be told, that will never happen and this is indicative of that.

[Eljay]

@HPDeskjet

Alright, then, I can therefore use absolutely anything at all for the mask, even a single 2x4 red system brick, and I’d still have an equal chance at winning then, by that logic. The thing is, it really doesn’t work that way in practice.

Then don’t practice it. You can use whatever you want, that does not mean you don’t have to put in effort.

@HPDeskjet

And, now that Eljay has clarified it to me, so say the BS01 art drawn by the artist has Mask A, but the moccer dislikes that and wants to use Mask B. What then? which is the “canon” form?

They’re both canon, but the artwork would be the most complete form unless the mask stays the same on both. Both will be displayed on BS01, provided Greg Farshtey signs off on it, however the art will be in the character box.

@HPDeskjet

The artist may not like the winning entry yet are forced to draw it anyways.

No one is forced to do anything. If you don’t want to draw something, then don’t enter.

@HPDeskjet

This entire situation is just rather messy. I know Eljay has stated that he’s done a lot of work behind the scenes to try and satisfy all sides, but, truth be told, that will never happen and this is indicative of that.

You’re right. It is messy and a lot of it is a compromise. We didn’t want it to be this way, but a BS01 staff member decided this was an appropriate time for a power move and this is where that left us. Even though they’ve recanted their stance, things aren’t going to change because this method still addresses other concerns by other groups.

Additionally, we understand not everyone will be happy. These contests happening at all will make people unhappy. No matter what the situation or outcome, people will be unhappy. And there will also be people that are very happy. That’s life.

[HPDeskjet]

@Eljay

1. Then don’t practice it. You can use whatever you want, that does not mean you don’t have to put in effort.

2. They’re both canon, but the artwork would be the most complete form unless the mask stays the same on both. Both will be displayed on BS01, provided Greg Farshtey signs off on it, however the art will be in the character box.

3. If you don’t want to draw something, then don’t enter.

1. It isn’t a matter of practicing anything. I clearly stated that “in practice”, or, “in a practical situation”, not if I were to put an act into action.
2. I have heard that BS01 considers 3D printed masks to be bootleg, or close to it, and are therefore not willing to display it in their infoboxes. Well, if the moc has been considered canon by Greg, then the onus is on them, not us, to consider it a canon image. They either accept it as canon, or choose not to use a canon image and the page is that much more inaccurate. I’m sure you’ve heard that before, but that is simply my view no amount of haranguing will budge me from. It makes absolutely no sense why we have to display artwork that may or may not 100% represent a winning, canonized moc more prominently that the moc itself, one that has been decided by votes.
3. I had to think about whether this was a “take it or leave it” statement, or a generalized statement about artists not being forced to draw what they don’t want to draw. While I understand the situation is, essentially, a take it or leave it, I would hope that you weren’t singling me out, even if I am not an artist.

At this point, my foremost point of concern is that the artist potentially infringed on the creative agency of the moccer. I would rather the artist simply draw the winning moc as-is. BS01 gets their artwork, the community can decide who is the best artist, the moccer does not lose any of their envisioned moc.

[Eljay]

@HPDeskjet

I have heard that BS01 considers 3D printed masks to be bootleg, or close to it, and are therefore not willing to display it in their infoboxes. Well, if the moc has been considered canon by Greg, then the onus is on them, not us, to consider it a canon image. They either accept it as canon, or choose not to use a canon image and the page is that much more inaccurate. I’m sure you’ve heard that before, but that is simply my view no amount of haranguing will budge me from.

Trust me, we agree. That was our standpoint as well. The issue is we’ve been walking a tight-rope of doing what we want and working with the community. It’s… a challenge.

@HPDeskjet

I had to think about whether this was a “take it or leave it” statement, or a generalized statement about artists not being forced to draw what they don’t want to draw. While I understand the situation is, essentially, a take it or leave it, I would hope that you weren’t singling me out, even if I am not an artist.

Generalized. I apologize if it seemed targeted, it was not meant to be.

@HPDeskjet

At this point, my foremost point of concern is that the artist potentially infringed on the creative agency of the moccer. I would rather the artist simply draw the winning moc as-is. BS01 gets their artwork, the community can decide who is the best artist, the moccer does not lose any of their envisioned moc.

All I can suggest is what everyone needs to do - focus on voting for the entry you feel best represents the character. If a MOC best represents Helryx to you, that’s the one to vote for and argue for. If a piece of artwork thereby best represents the MOC, that’s the one to vote for and argue for. The community has a lot of power here by way of their votes. The issues we’ve been facing have been entirely as a result of people concerned about what people are entering and not on what would likely be voted for.

[Everox]

@Eljay

Artists have the choice to illustrate the mask however they want. If it’s the mask on the MOC, then they just draw the MOC. If it’s a different or new mask, they draw the mask and the MOC wearing the mask.

For Helryx, the art could also include a newly designed, 3D modeled mask? The way the contest is structured will work, but from earlier conversations about MOCing with permission from 3D modelers makes it sound like many are under the assumption that for the Mask of Psychometry, the mask donned by the winning MOC will become official- and artists will be forced to draw the mask similarly to how the 3D modeler designed it. Personally I will try to design my own mask for the Helryx contest.

Secondly- for all you Mask-Makers out there- it’s been said that the MOC can use any mask that you have made free access. That means they can use your Tuyet Mask design for Helryx’s Mask. Wouldn’t you rather just submit your Helryx mask design yourself in the art section of the contest?

I know that votes have a great deal of power here of what actually happens in the contest- but I want to be sure all contestants know what parts of their entry could become canon.

[Eljay]

@Everox

For Helryx, the art could also include a newly designed, 3D modeled mask?

It could.

@Everox

but from earlier conversations about MOCing with permission from 3D modelers makes it sound like many are under the assumption that for the Mask of Psychometry, the mask donned by the winning MOC will become official- and artists will be forced to draw the mask similarly to how the 3D modeler designed it. Personally I will try to design my own mask for the Helryx contest.

We’ll see about any necessary clarifications in the topic for Helryx on June 1st, but yes, whatever the mask on the artwork is will be the canon mask. However, if it’s a new mask that is separate from the MOC, a standalone piece of art must be submitted as well.

Additionally, may I implore everyone to stop saying “forced?” No one is forced to do anything. This is hyperbole. Any involvement in this contest is voluntary and the dramatic wording isn’t helpful.

[Everox]

@Eljay

Additionally, may I implore everyone to stop saying “forced?” No one is forced to do anything. This is hyperbole. Any involvement in this contest is voluntary and the dramatic wording isn’t helpful.

Sorry, I’ll refrain from dramatic wording from now on. I meant to say that people might think that art submissions must include the mask as depicted on the winning MOC. That was my assumption when I read the earlier debate on the details of MOCing with 3D parts- thank you for answering my questions

[Lesnichiy]

I have a rules related questions (though they might have been already asked and answered, sorry, if that is the case). Personally, i am not a 3d modeler, so if i would enter a MOC, it would be without any mask. But i have drew a mask, that, in my opinion should have been in a MOC. Can i include a photo of such a drawing in a MOC entry not as part of the MOC itself, but as a kind of additional info? And an another one: in the second part of a contest (Kanohi contest) must a picture include whole MOC? Or there can be only an illustration of mask (and weapons)?

[Takhamavahu]

Stud.io doesn’t seem to have a Toa Mata head. Is there one out there someone has given their blessing for everyone to use?

[TichePotato]

I’ve recently started with Stud.io myself, and it’s rather difficult to navigate the respective forum. Hope the scant amount of information in this thread can help.

Help in Stud.io with the Bionicle Parts, and more specifically, the lack thereof.

What with the recent resurgence of popularity for Bionicle, I thought I’d try my hand at MOCing (via Stud.io) for the first time in a few years. However, Stud.io’s collection of Bionicle parts is rather lacking, and my attempts to find and install Bionicle parts has failed to bear fruit. While I have been able to find a part pack via Reddit, and followed the instructions provided there, I’ve been unable to find those parts within the program itself. Any help from the very skilled people here would be greatly appreciated, as would some advice on how to improve the scrolling within the part palette. I have repetitive strain injury, and find the slow scroll speed literally painful, forcing me to stop several times during my first foray. The scroll bar itself is arguably even more useless, g…

[Eljay]

@Lesnichiy

I have a rules related questions (though they might have been already asked and answered, sorry, if that is the case). Personally, i am not a 3d modeler, so if i would enter a MOC, it would be without any mask. But i have drew a mask, that, in my opinion should have been in a MOC. Can i include a photo of such a drawing in a MOC entry not as part of the MOC itself, but as a kind of additional info? And an another one: in the second part of a contest (Kanohi contest) must a picture include whole MOC? Or there can be only an illustration of mask (and weapons)?

1. No. You would need to enter the mask as well as a drawing of the MOC wearing the mask during the second portion.
2. Mask and MOC. Ideally, we’re looking for a full-body illustration, though that’s not a solid rule at this time.

[SirKeksalot]

This may help you.

[DaftVirus]

In relation to this question, is it possible to craft an original mask out of thermal plastics and use it on the MOC? I also, am no 3D modeler and don’t really want to slap a piece of drawn on paper on the figure.