Biovival Discussion (aka Christian Faber's mysterious project)

Yeah, you said it. Not just in entertainment; it feels like the whole world is going to…a word that the mods probably won’t let me use.

I firmly agree.

Huh. I didn’t even think of that. But if Lego does make that Ideas set, then that’ll be a good way to keep us fans busy while we wait for 3ionicle.

It’s fine; I still got the points you were trying to convey.

And maybe even make sets based on whatever story Faber is developing.

Uh…it costs money to manufacture a product. And there’s never a guarantee that said product will sell enough to make back that $$$.

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I’m aware. I’m also aware that the reception to that idea, and the excitement and discussion that Faber’s project has stirred up is pretty indicative that there is clearly an audience for this, which would allow them to make back that $$$.

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I mean, from the looks of things? That’s exactly what it is. Constraction as we know it is dead in Lego’s eyes, and Mixel Joints are likely going to be the closest thing we get going forward. I’m perfectly okay with that, to be honest, but I understand if you aren’t.

That being said, while Constraction is over, that doesn’t mean Bionicle (whether or not it’s still called that) has to be. And that’s the part that’s important to me. While I’m still a bit concerned about whether Faber can convince the people he needs to in order to pull this off, I’m overall interested and hopeful to see what may come of it.

Seconding these ^

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Looks at topic name change

Gee I wonder if someone is biased over one live stream which never promised to announce anything

This entire thing by Faber is, once again, him adding a bit more fuel to the fire and leaving things cryptic. And for the people who are furious at him for this, why? He never promised you anything; stop holding him to a word he never said.

Personally I’m still waiting. I’ve never rushed into this with blind hype and I encourage everyone else to do the same, but please don’t beat Faber up for failing the expectations which you and only you set.

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I concur. Personally, I’ll be happy as long as it’s a good story that holds the atmosphere and intrigue that the original did so well, particularly in its early days. And if it does indeed involve a VR aspect of some kind, this project is incredibly well-set to do that.

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Problem solved.

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Thank you, that was much needed!

I agree with Ghid here, we shouldn’t press our own expectations on Faber, if you do you’ll only disappoint yourself.

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I’m master rank, isn’t that sort of my job? To be a mini-mod? Sort of like when the police enlist civilians for a short time?

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Constraction isn’t over in the same way Bionicle isn’t over. As long as fans of it are still active, it’s never gonna die. That applies to both Bionicle and Constraction in general.
That said, if it were possible I’d still much rather have a Completely new Constraction theme instead of a Bionicle G3.

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I also have this to note, from the end of the stream, a quote from Faber. Bear with me on the interpretation of the ending as the accent gets a tad thick, but I hope you get the idea:

“From this date, I will stop all the cryptic posts, about what’s coming and so on. Next time you see a post from me it’s gonna be either: this (:thumbsdown:), or this (:thumbsup:), should we have that deal.”

(Timestamp: https://youtu.be/ftBBT9q2zJY?t=2108)

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Both are officially over though. They’re LEGO Group’s concepts and they aren’t making use of either, so despite what fans may do with them that doesn’t change the fact that they’re not getting any official use.

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I’m personally 50-50. I’d be happy with Bionicle G3, and I’d also be happy with something new.

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I’m glad to see there are more people on this discussion in support of Faber. I’ve been fighting for a long time for a more open-minded approach to this entire thing, and it’s glad to see that I’m definitely not the only one.

Having watched Meso’s video earlier today, I have to say the thing that’s actually disappointing isn’t Faber’s lack of info, it’s the fact that we, the community, are so obsessed and ravenous over strict, clear, concrete info that he feels the need to be cryptic in the first place. Meso always makes a big deal that if Faber wants to be successful with this that he needs to play into that (and don’t get me wrong, he’s sort of right in that regard), but it’s absolutely awful and a bit infuriating that that has to be the case.

Instead of getting on this message board and thinking up what kind of things this could be or things we think would be cool to see, people are stuck complaining about it not being G1 or LEGO or anything they expected it to be. In other words, we’re focused on what it’s not instead of on what it could be, and that’s totally against what Faber wants us to be doing.

He’s asking us here to be open-minded. He’s asking us to look at this thing, this LEGO toy line we used to buy and consume, and actually let go of those preconceived notions of what Bionicle is or was and instead think about what it can be now.

I, for one, am actually excited to think about Bionicle as this non-product thing. I was always appealed by the atmosphere, the aesthetic, and the storytelling, the toys were just supplementary. To me it’s like saying creativity doesn’t exist if LEGO bricks don’t exist. And I realize that for a number of people, the toys were what mattered, and that’s okay! This just isn’t the thing you want, and I’m sad to say that the thing you do want probably won’t ever exist again.

Does this new announcement mean that Faber’s going to lose some of the community that was backing him? Yes, of course. But those people were drawn in by a promise their own minds and expectations created, and most certainly not through any malicious intent on Faber’s part.

So where does that leave us? I’d argue in a better place. The numbers may be less than before, sure, but I’d argue the passion and enthusiasm and the drive behind it is only strengthened, because this means the people who want this specific vision to be real are here supporting it. We don’t have people looking at this project for something other than it is, and that makes its focus and vision stronger.

So if you were here because you wanted a LEGO toy, I’m very sorry. This isn’t the thing for you, and I’m sorry it might have looked that way. But for the rest of us, we’re all here still excited about what it could be, and it’s the passion that’s going to drive Faber to make it a reality, not the numbers.

Side note, it’s funny to me that a community built on an IP whose entire initial premise was mystery and being slightly cryptic is so obsessed with information and minutia. We need canonization contests to make us happy instead of actually enjoying the scope of unresolved things we can play with. I’ve honestly never seen a fandom that’s actually the antithesis of the thing it’s a fan of in practice.

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Let the past die. Kil it if you have to. It’s the only way for 310nicle to become what it wad meant to be.

Sorry, couldn’t resist :stuck_out_tongue:

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Ironically, it’s like everyone is the other way around when it comes to things like the canonization contests being discussed. Now, suddenly people are so keen to preserve the mystery that they don’t want appearances for official characters. It’s a weird paradox.

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Side note, it’s funny to me that a community built on an IP whose entire initial premise was mystery and being slightly cryptic is so obsessed with information and minutia. We need canonization contests to make us happy instead of actually enjoying the scope of unresolved things we can play with.

The island mystery and tribal aesthetic were what drew me in to the franchise. Nothing else was like it. Bionicle’s “Golden Years” were a sandbox for children to play in- the perfect companion to a toy line based in creativity. I cherish the early years in large part for having more thematic connectivity between the world, characters, and plot than any other children’s franchise I can think of. These things are what make the “Biological Chronicle” closer to a mythology rather than a regular story.

G1 did eventually grow too lore-padded for its own good by the end of its run, losing some of its mythic feeling in the process- but that was a natural consequence of having to market toys depicting new characters and locations every single year for a decade. The toys were a necessary part of the brand’s DNA- but going forward they don’t need to be, and in all likelihood won’t be.

Not to turn this into a canonization discussion thread, but I think it speaks to the community’s general misunderstanding of what it was that Bionicle did differently. Fans love to talk about “worldbuilding” and outlining every detail of the Bionicle Universe, but what Bionicle excelled at wasn’t worldbuilding, it was world-conjuring.

In contrast to “worldbuilding,” I’ll offer the term “worldconjuring.” Worldconjuring does not attempt to construct a scale model in the reader’s bedroom. Worldconjuring uses hints and literary magic to create the illusion of a world, with the reader working to fill in the gaps. Worldbuilding imposes, worldconjuring collaborates.
Source:
https://electricliterature.com/against-worldbuilding/

When I see people apply their backwards obsession with canonicity to Faber’s project, burdening themselves with worries over how it will possibly follow the continuity of G1, I am reminded of a quote by Alan Moore:

https://blogdesuperheroes.es/wp-content/plugins/BdSGallery/BdSGaleria/28256.jpg

This is an Imaginary Story… Aren’t they all?

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One thing I would like to say, in the defense of the canonization contests:

My interest has never been centered around uncovering every stone and leaving everything out in the open (for a start, I don’t think official appearances of canon characters have anything to do with the mystery aspect of the franchise, more just a slightly annoying side-effect of the fact that some characters were made for the story rather than the sets, and vice versa). My interest was in the fact that one of the most well-known and well-loved creators of this franchise we care so much about, who not only takes time out of his day to answer silly fan questions ten years after its cancellation, would be interested in adding “new content” to the G1 universe.

Obviously, that’s a loose term, it’s not like he’s completing the story serials, it’s not like G1 is coming back, but that fan engagement is very real. This excites people, this has generated hotter discussion than I have seen surrounding Bionicle in a very long time. It feels like everyone has come out of the woodwork to say their piece. And, unnecessary or not, I think these moments where the community can stand together and have something to look forward to (or dread, depending on who you ask) should be cherished.

Fans, new or old, have the opportunity, some might say the privilege, to be able to look at that “official” image out there, that reference-point used by probably quite a lot of people in future, and be able to say: “I did that, and I’m proud of it.” I’m definitely aware that there are challenges ahead, and not everything that comes out of this will be good, but isn’t this a lot like Faber’s project itself? A leap of faith, a daring rebel adventure which we’ve all been invited to join? And besides, if the story side of the community is going to get spoiled, how fair is it to not let the MOCing community have their fun? :stuck_out_tongue:

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Absolutely, I totally agree.

I want to make it clear that my comment on the contests wasn’t a protest against them. I actually think it’s rather cool, and I love anything that breathes life into the community again.

What I am speaking out against, though, is that toxic, overzealous nature of the Bionicle fandom, most particularly in our obsession with the details. Much like the line itself, as the story and the franchise grew bigger and bigger, we also sort of lost that original hook. There was so much dEeP lOrE that it became all we cared about. We took it, we gate-keep it, we get angry at casuals who mispronounce Pohatu or don’t call masks “Kanohi,” and we search every possible avenue for something new to give a Maori name to and describe every aspect of.

In some ways, that’s a good thing. We clearly all love this universe so much that we always want more of it. That’s the common ground we’re working from here, we all love Bionicle. I just take issue with the fact that a large number of fans are so stuck in that mindset that when they see anything remotely Bionicle related they want to theorize and fantasize about it and beg for details, even when something like 14b2020 clearly is extremely work-in-progress and just starting out.

We instantly think that Faber wants our numbers and our money when all he really wants is for us to remind him how much we love Bionicle. That’s what’s going to motivate him to keep pushing for whatever he wants to do with it now. Sharing MOCs with him, talking about our memories, fan art, fan stories, all of this is fuel for Faber’s fire. But instead, some people want to villain-ize him or talk down about the project because he can’t give them a release date or even say if it’s Bionicle or not yet.

Do we have a “right” to know these things? Maybe, eventually we should. But I think it’s showing our bad side if we keep pestering Faber for details he can’t give yet or call his project a “disappointment” because it isn’t fully formed yet.

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I agree.
But what exactly is Bionicle at this point? What defines Bionicle? Is it the sets, the characters, the masks or the overall story?
Faber said it will be a complete new story (maybe new characters?) and there will not be sets.
So what will this make Bionicle? No, I mean not saying, this is what I need, but this is what makes this recognizable as such.

Faber used to create visuals and concepts. So it may look like Bionicle from a perspective of art. I don’t want to talk it bad. I would just like to hear your opinion. No hype, no expectations, just an objective…well, possibility.

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I never actually watched the livestream when it was premiering. But yes, I guess I was overboard in putting “Disappointments” in the title, and for that, I apologize.

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