Are we really doing the iron debate again?
There should just be the standard four: Fire, Earth, Air, Water…
Again? It was never resolved… And it’s not so much about Iron, but about how Nature is apparently a clearly defined and far greater choice as a replacement element.
No, it went on for three days and then was canceled due to no end being in sight.
Have you watched the new episode of the podcast? It may shed some light on the issue.
Literally all of the evidence says otherwise. The polls show a landslide victory for six elements, as well as the six most popular being the original six from G1. A more accurate statement would be:
2 Likes
Indeed. I very much liked Var’s ideas for the element of Earth, and it actually helped influence my poll decisions. All in all I could picture Onua and the rest of the Toa controlling their elements in a way very similar to that of Benders from The Last Airbender.
1 Like
I like the idea of having four main elements that if practiced and experimented enough can branch out and turn into what G1 had as secondary elements (Avatar). Earth would expand to include Iron and Gravity, Fire would expand to include Lightning and Plasma, Air would expand to include Sonics, and Water would expand to include Ice. I think that Shadow and Light should be extra dormant powers that the main characters have and down the line they tap into these powers. I think the abilities should be split rather than having them all have Light as a dormant ability and Shadow is bad. Shadow should be explored as an element that can be used for good rather than just evil. If not all of the main characters have Light or Shadow then one has Light and one has Shadow while the remaining ones develop their abilities faster and branch out to their secondary/expanded abilities more quickly.
True, I have many times explained Bionicle to people as “Avatar with robots,” but I feel it’s important to remember that Bionicle is it’s own thing, and one of the things that makes it stand out from Avatar or Ninjago is that it has six elements instead of four.
That is definitely a minority opinion.
Once again, Bionicle is it’s own thing, unlike avatar, Bionicle kept it’s elements separate from each other, each given their own individual identity. Lumping them all together goes against Bionicle’s nature. There is such a thing as oversimplification.
1 Like
BIONICLE’s “nature” was kind of stupid. It separated stone from earth.
And there’s such a thing as overcomplication. Such as separating stone from earth.
2 Likes
Per Var’s request: After listening to the recent podcast I realize that I prefer having four elements but I am not big on losing any of the main six characters. I am attached to the characters and if you changed the names and characters then I would not mind going to four. However, part of me would want you to somehow bring them in as legend, stories or somehow have original six mentioned.
When you think of nature, what do you picture? A forest? A field? Maybe a jungle? Plants and animals? Nature is effectively just a better name for jungle.
1 Like
in regard of the podcast’s talk about the element of stone, i was reminded of this scene when they mentiond Pohatu throwing a rock:
anyway, when i though about it more… there is notting that says that Kopaka and Pohatu HAVE to be with the main toa from the start. Basicly im saying that we could still have Kopaka and Pohatu in the story… but not as “real” toa, but instead as (and this is just my idea here) artificial toa created by the villains to combat the toa (which would explain why they could have powers that are not element related, like sonics or magnetism for example). Now before anyone here gets the idea that im saying that Kopaka and Pohatu should be changed to pure villains, im not, im just saying that they could be introduced as adversaries to the toa at first, and then later learn that they have been manipulated by the real villains and thus joins the toa, thus giving us once more six main toa characters.
1 Like
i like sand as an element more than earth or stone…
if you get plasma you get fire and lightening
water → ice
darkness creates shade or rather “shadow” creates shade
Edited for Double Post - Slime
The concept of Wu Xing (Five Elements) matured during the Han Dynasty, sometime between 200 - 100 BCE. The link goes back to it’s corresponding Wikipedia page, if you’re looking to do some extra reading. Oh, and on an unrelated note, these five are also what supposedly powers the Lions of Voltron (Green is Wood, Black is Metal, Yellow is Earth, and the others are self-explanatory).
Alternatively, depending on the culture, this list actually has quite a few differing variations. The Babylonian version, for example, leaves out Fire completely, and instead implements Sky (Atmosphere) and Wind as separate elements. India’s fifth has a habit of alternating between Aether, Space, and Void. Factor in Medieval Alchemy, and now you have to deal with both the basic four, plus Paracelsus’ additional Tria Prima; Sulphur, Mercury, and Salt.
For a more extensive comparison, the page on Classical Elements pretty much has you covered. Alternatively, you could also check out Classical Elements in Popular Culture for even more ideas on the subject, which also includes Bionicle. One variation I find particularly interesting is from the old Jackie Chan Adventures cartoon, which consists of the main four being supplemented by Sky, Moon (Gravity), Thunder (Lightning/Sonics), and Mountain (essentially Stone, but on a much larger scale).
@Payinku: Again, this entirely depends on what you consider to be a force of nature. Different parts of the world do have different beliefs, after all.
4 Likes
How is metal a force of nature? You brought it up, please, explain.
As stated in the above link, one of the differences between Wu Xing and the classical Greek elements is that, while the latter attempts to essentially condense the building blocks of the universe into four or five basic principles, the former is more concerned with addressing the processes of change. Now this can apply to a large variety of different topics, but for the purposes of this discussion, I’ll mainly be sticking to the philosophy’s seasonal applications, as they are the most relevant.
Contrary to how we commonly divide the year into four separate phases, this system of belief actually has five (each lasting somewhere around 72 days), with the fifth being an additional transitional period inserted between Summer and Autumn. Since its elemental wheelhouse also neglects Air/Wind entirely, this leads to a slightly different split when trying to determine which “element” presides over what time of year:
Spring - Wood (Growth)
Summer - Fire (Swelling)
Long/Late Summer - Earth (Leveling/Dampening/Fruition)
Autumn - Metal (Harvest)
Winter - Water (Retreat)
With a different variation of elemental Rock, Paper, Scissors to boot:
Wood is nourished by Water and parts Earth
Fire feeds off of Wood and melts Metal
Earth is created by Fire and absorbs Water
Metal is born from Earth and chops Wood
Water is collected by Metal and extinguishes Fire
Applying this train of thought to the discussion at hand, Metal is essentially the force that keeps both Water and Wood in check, thus allowing civilisation at large to more or less continue to coexist with nature. Which would have an even greater impact on the characters of a potential Bionicle G3 than it would here in real life, seeing as to how the vast majority of them would likely be biomechanical and all, so worshipping a substance similar to the form of the one that they’re primarily composed of isn’t really that much of a leap.
3 Likes
I have an idea that could possibly work- take Var’s concepts for earth,wind, water, and fire as the current toa in the story. But what if in the past, there were 6 (the previous four, Kopaka, and Pohatu), but Kopaka (toa of plasma, lightning, whatever element) and Pohatu (toa of whatever element, preferably sonics or psionics) seeked greater power and basically pulled a Nidhiki. They were banished from their toa team, civilization, and were isolated in the desert and frozen wastelands of the island. They are now pretty much warlords of their regions, as they have taken control of the natives and creatures of the area.
1 Like
I have 3 ideas for G3 toa teams.
However firstly, I like to have a team of six, because if Bionicle G3 would be constraction, more toa sets would be nice. 5 is a prime number, so you can’t devide the team nicely, in case they split up. 6 solves both the problems I have.
Now onto the 3 ideas for toa teams.
- The traditional elemental toa team. My six elements of choice are fire, ice, water, earth and sand. I look at the elements on how they combatively differ, rather than being scientificly correct or anything similar. The six elements can be grouped in 3 categories: “Gas” being Fire and Air, “liquid” being Sand and Water and “solid” being Earth and Ice. This makes the elements more distinct from each other.
- A toa team based on regional powers, rather than elements. I found someone in the youtube comments named SWCronin in this video “BIONICLE G3 Toa Designs and Elements Debate | TTV Podcast #236”. He goes more indepth on this, so look at his comment.
- Seasonal toa team. while this breaks my rule of six, it was fun idea to me nonetheless. The toa of Spring is akin to the toa of nature/jungle and represents the growth of nature. Summer is akin to fire and represents a hot, dry summer. Autumn is like water and represents the stormy rain. Finally Winter is similar to ice and represents the cold winter.
Post scriptum
I have a solution if we keep both earth and stone as elements. We can make earth focus on earthquakes and tremors. Meanwhile stone has the “power” of being extra strong against rock, for example a rock the size of a football would weigh as much as an actual football to a toa of stone. This might all sound weird, but this how I keep the two apart. Also, I prefer scaling down the powers of the toa, so they are more distinct from each other and don’t overlap. Giving them more or less a set amount of powers, like abilities in MOBA’s or movesets like RPG’s.
Sounds better for an original IP tbh.
you and me have similar ideas
we both are thinking of ways to explain Pohatu and Kopaka’s reasons to still exist in the Bionicle story.
by the way, have there been any ideas or talks about what if the turaga had some secrets that they were keeping from the toa and the rest of the villagers? similar to the “you are not the first toa” secret that Vakama told the toa nuva, but instead could be more story relevant than being an ending twist. Like if the Turaga (or what the elders in G3 are going to be called) were covering up something about Makuta.
How about when the Toa evolve some Toa with similar power sets or with complimentary powers begin to slowly merge with each other to become a completely new character with a combination of their same but different elements? We can expand on this concept with other moar wild ideas.