This sounds amazing.
2 Likes
Thanks. Itās expanded a lot more upon in some of my other posts. But I also really like the Po-Matoran pirates ideas, so I think I would want to meld the two concepts together.
1 Like
You know, the more I think of it, I really donāt like this idea, it effectively means the toa arenāt actually themselves, Iād much rather the toa be matoran given power by the great spirit, rather than matoran playing gods, it just really rubs me wrong that the toa arenāt actually the toa, that and it rehashes the relationship between the toa and matoran from the previous 2 generations, as theyād be revered as gods, I think it would be far more interesting if they had to prove themselves heroes before gaining the respect and admiration of their people.
This would change the dynamics of the story rather significantly, rather than a different background that ultimately runs the same course as before.
Iām not sure what I expect saying this to accomplish, but Iād just like to give my thoughts.
4 Likes
I would kind of like to see more of a buildup, with Matoran of certain talents being elevated into stronger and more powerful beings. It would give a more demigod-like vibe, making these Matoran similar to superhumans, though by being adept and rewarded for their talent and abilities as Matoran rather than chosen by prophecy or higher beings.
Even after they become Toa, they should take some time to learn to control their powers and prove themselves worthy. Iām thinking like how Aang tried to learn fire before water in Avatar. Aang wasnāt ready because he hasnāt learned the lessons taught by the other elements (Water = Calm/Control, Earth = Steady/Stable). The Toa could struggle with the amount of power theyāre given at first, then, whether through practice or a mentorās guidance or both, they start to control their element and prove themselves as heroes.
Of course, from what it is worded, I may be misinterpreting the description. I would like to keep any contact with any higher beings for a later arc, maybe as a milestone to these Toa.
[quote=āPayinku, post:85, topic:34404ā]
You know, the more I think of it, I really donāt like this idea, it effectively means the toa arenāt actually themselves, Iād much rather the toa be matoran given power by the great spirit, rather than matoran playing gods,[/quote]
The Toa Spirits and the Elemental Gods arenāt the same thing, though. So the Toa arenāt gods, and the Matoran likely wouldnāt consider them as such. Theyād probably be seen more as demigods - beings that should be respected for their power and their deeds, but not worshipped or revered as gods are.
And it stands to reason that if Toa can only come from Matoran, than the original Toa Spirits were just that - transformed Matoran. In which case the Matoran arenāt āplaying god,ā because all Toa before them and after them will come about in the same way. The way I see it, thereās little difference between these worthy Matoran being the Toa Spirits (avatars) and the Great Spirit granting it to them personally, because it all comes down to destiny either way.
I feel like thatās almost identical to '04, though. The Toa Metru had to prove they were worthy Toa, which they attempted to do by gathering the Great Disks. Granted, they ultimately failed in that regard thanks to Teridax/Dumeās influence on the Matoran, but itās still a very similar concept. I may be interpreting it wrong, but the moment I read āthey had to prove themselves heroes,ā I thought of the Metru.
2 Likes
Iām not necessarily disagreeing with you, but then we loop back to the toa being inherently treated like demigods and weāre back to the same place we started. Iād argue for a ragtag underdog group to be chosen by the great spirit, the general reaction to the toa would be something like āthese are our saviors?ā Rather than bowing before them,
one of the reasons I personally like the toa metru so much is because they had to prove themselves heroes since the matoran had little respect for them, whereas the other 3 times toa have arrived theyāve just been treated as the only hope from square one.
And yes the metru failed, but I wouldnāt expect these toa to, regardless Iād rather a relationship that was done once before and failed rather than one thatās been done thrice before.
Having to prove themselves would be far more interesting,
and relating back to my initial point, their accomplishments and victories feel greatly diminished when theyāre running on borrowed power, proving themselves heroes in their own right feels significantly more satisfying than trying to live up to the expectations of demigods.
6 Likes
We havenāt quite delved into the interactions and treatment of the Toa with the rest of the islands populace yet, so really itās hard to say. My understanding is that the Toa spirits are essentially tools by the Elemental Gods to protect the island in times of need, they are not deities of any kind and wouldnāt really be seen as demigods. Theyāre simply heroes with ancient power bestowed upon them that no one really understands.
Itās also worth noting that there hasnāt been any Toa for a very long time, Iād hazard to guess that the majority of the inhabitants wouldnāt know what a Toa even was. This will all tie into our religion discussion going forward, but I would even say there are matoran that donāt even believe in elemental gods or Toa, and would likely not see them as people worthy of their trust immediately.
Thereās a lot of opportunity to flesh out this world with unique characters that hold different viewpoints on how the world works. In a sense, weād essentially be combining the ādestined chosen oneā angle with an underdog story. Especially since our chosen matoran are already misfits amongst society for their lack of elemental abilities before the time event happens.
These are simply my musings on the concept, however.
6 Likes
So my thought is similar to @Payinku
Ok so the toa who were originally elemental powerless matoran. So they tended to be looked down upon by the other matoran (clique right?) and then bad things happen yada yada and there is an [quote=āIllustriousVar, post:89, topic:34404ā]
ancient power bestowed upon them that no one really understands.
[/quote]. Journey ect. save matoran ect. Well the matoran are greatfull that, but they are afraid of the toa, because they were once elemental powerless matoran who suddenly have these powerful ancient abilities that they donāt understand. Then given they fact that the toa are still learning to control such powers would from time to time leave a matoran hurt, and property damaged. This could cause the toa to doubt themselves and whatever the reason they became toa (insert toa getting butt kicked, character building, ect.) eventually leading to the matoran to except them.
sorry if its too long or seems as if Iām writing the story, just a thought I had
1 Like
Fair enough, still, the matoran taking the name(and presumably also the appearance) of toa spirits still rubs me the wrong way, them being on borrowed power and wearing the figurative āmasksā of toa spirits makes it feel almost like someone else is getting the credit of their deeds,
Iād be content with the toa spirits concept if they were simply imbued with the power, but keep their names and general appearances.
People have suggested that the mata names be the names of these toa spirits, but I feel that the toa spirits shouldnāt be entities in their own right but something closer to āfighting spiritā where toa translates to spirit warrior, and the toa are the same people as when they were matoran.
Iāve come to realize Iām awful at debate, so hopefully that came across alright.
5 Likes
At the moment I actually do agree with you, however we still havenāt heard the religion discussion yet, which might make this new take on the Toa a little easier for us to swallow. Weāll just have to wait and see.
3 Likes
Would the Elemental Gods be on par with the likes of say, Zeus, while the Toa spirits are like heroes, such as Heracles/Hercules?
1 Like
Ahkmou will revive Makuta, it is his destiny
If lewa is female, does this mean all of the Wind peoples will be female? or can anyone have either gender now?
Edited for Double Post - Waj
Anyone can be female or male now.
1 Like
Oh cool thanks
1 Like
I had an idea for the Po-Wahi Raiders we were talking about earlier. What if they were like these desert pirates that travel across the sand on these sort of desert sailboats. Like the Sand-Sailors from Avatar. This could also be a way to incorporate a vehicle set that doesnāt feel out of place in Bionicle.
10 Likes
Dude, yes. Much yes.
And that makes me consider some vehicles for the other villagesā¦
8 Likes
Honestly, this really works, especially since the Po-Matoran will now have the elemental powers to use it.
how will the candle head cult be handled?
2 Likes
Because all po matoran are raiders?
Iām not on board with this idea.
No. This was talked about a few comments up. Thereād be a band of Po-Matoran raiders - the majority of Po-Matoran would be your everyday ordinary villagers, and it doesnāt have to be just the raiders using the proposed sand sleds.
Also, I meant that I had ideas for how the other villages could incorporate vehicles, like chariots or bobsleds.
3 Likes