Ms. Marvel

[ToaNoah_Wafflemeister]

Ms. Marvel has about 2% similarities to Carol Danvers, by the way. Besides the name and backstories that are slightly intertwined with Kree, they are nothing alike. I’m pretty sure.

WAIT, STOP. I just realized; Kamala Khan is an Inhuman- and Inhumans are in the MCU. They were introduced in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, meaning that if they go that route, this show has to either confirm Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.’s place in this universe. My hype for this show just went from zero to seven really quickly.

[Toa_Vladin]

WAIT, STOP. I just realized; Kamala Khan is an Inhuman- and Inhumans are in the MCU.

Oh, really? I never heard of any Inhuman related item in the MCU.

[ToaNoah_Wafflemeister]

The inhibitor chip in Captain Marvel originated from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, pretty much specifically designed for Inhumans.

[Toa_Vladin]

Shh we're not talking about them

[ToaNoah_Wafflemeister]

It’s still in the MCU.

Goodness, I can’t even think of a movie I despise that much, even Harry Potter and the Emoji Movie had their moments.

But, yeah, Inhumans are a massive portion of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[Toa_Vladin]

I don't despise the Inhumans show. I haven't even watched it

[ToaNoah_Wafflemeister]

I was referring to Captain Marvel, I haven’t seen Inhumans either. I’ve been talking about the species.

[Toa_Vladin]

I really didn't had Carols in my mind

[Pakari]

I actually love Ms. Marvel, I'm very glad they're gonna try her in the MCU. It's an especially good business move too considering Marvel's other big thing coming up (Marvel's Avengers game) also features Ms. Marvel.

I find it hard for this to go wrong considering the source material is so good.

[Holi]

Yeah dude! Add more Captain Marvels! The first one was so good, the audience will kiss our toes and we will swim in money! Not one Captain Marvel! Not two Captain Marvels! Let's have three, dudey! Yeah, mate, I can already taste the money

If you're going to open all the topics could you not complain about the subject matter? We get it you obsessively hate captain marvel(I would cite your ~70 page document on why you hate it, but I can't be bothered to go look it up.) . Either be neutral in the actual topic post and discuss bellow or let someone actually excited for the films/series make the topic

[Toa_Vladin]

If you are excited, go and say it. This will not stop me from saying my opinion, however.
I wasn't even refering at Captain Marvel. I was talking mostly about the fact that they decided to bring three CM like figures in the MCU all in the span of three years instead of naturaly waiting for the best moment to introduce them. Carol Danvers aside, the MCU was meant to be better than the comics. To align all of their ideas in a clean timeline. What really annoyed me and pushed me to make that intro was the fact that they were now throwing that idea away for money's sake. Love it or hate it, CM made money. Multiply that by three.
Also it's 46 pages and it isn't out yet.

[Chronicler]

instead of quickly morphing into the mess that it's the modern day comicbook industry. I was wrong.

Tell me... Why is it a mess?

Have you bothered to read what is on the shelves? Have you bothered to follow the sales numbers? Because what you have posted tells me you have not. You speak as someone who has been fed an opinion and basing it as absolute fact.

Current comics are not a mess. A few years ago they were, yeah. But Marvel has severely upped their game this past year with their new Editor in Chief. Spider-Man and co. is the best it has been in YEARS, X-Men has made a great come back, the old awful Champions book actually improved writing (shockingly), etc. Sure, there are some bad books. But there always has been. If anything they are just trying to find footing after the 90s devastated them.

So why is it a mess to you? Because you don't like the political statements being made, or pandering? These things have been in comics since their conception. People who think comics are a mess right now with these "political pushing" points are fearmongerers, nothing more.

Also, let's not glorify the 80's and 90's. There was plenty of awfulness in there too. Secret Wars II and Maximum Clonage come to mind. Marvel's editorial in that decade was actually MORE of a mess because of constant management changes once firing Jim Shooter in the 80's until it spiraled into bankruptcy into the 90s with cover gimmicks and crossovers. (Seriously, look up Marvel's 90's financial crisis and buy out from ToyBiz and Diamond Distributors. These deals are STILL in effect.)

Please understand these genres and topics before coming to conclusions.

[Toa_Vladin]

Tell me... Why is it a mess

The current phase of the Marvel universe is considered by many a mess. It's OK if you like it, but you must admit that it would deserve a cleaning. There are stacks of dupe heroes, ressurections, dupe stories (at the very least in the title), etc.

Have you bothered to read what is on the shelves

Yeah, I read a few and would have read more if I would have had the time and motivation. Lately I kinda stopped reafing comics, and when I do I mostly read Transformers ones.

Have you bothered to follow the sales numbers?

I looked into the sails for the female Thor and some other things once. I never said that Marvel is struggling financiary, tho it could do better.

ou speak as someone who has been fed an opinion and basing it as absolute fact

Even tho yes, that does happen to me, I don't adopt a mentality without any basis. If somebody would come to me and say that tge MCU is worse than the comic universe, I will not adopt this idea if tge guy doesn't bring in proves.

ecause you don't like the political statements being made, or pandering

No, absolutely not. I tend to avoid those, but this doesn't mean that I would not read them.

These things have been in comics since their conception

Eh
I've read some old comics, but haven't seen anything too political.

Also, let's not glorify the 80's and 90's. T

I wasn't. I waa just saying that the MCU would follow the original comic universe chronologically. If you separate the comic universe into bits, you would see that the MCU was mostly inspired by the pre/early 80s bits. The next bits would be the 80s/90s. I thought they would go for those instead of going for modern day.

Please understand these genres and topics before coming to conclusions

I do. I don't talk without basis.

[Chronicler]

but you must admit that it would deserve a cleaning.

Absolutely not. Marvel has turned around characters in the past and can do it again. A 'cleaning' is a lazy way out. Besides, I think there are gems people have not seen in all of the rough.

The "dupe heroes" are called legacy heroes, and frankly are not all bad. Look at Spider-Gwen, she's one of the better ones out there. Hawkeye's daughter is pretty freaking awesome too. As for dupe stories... Again, been around forever, and are done to increase sales and interest of previous fans. It's a common business strategy (albeit one I wish they'd quit).

Yeah, I read a few and would have read more if I would have had the time and motivation.

How hard is it to read a 20 page comic? Most of them take about 10 minutes to read nowadays. You've read a few; besides the transformers you mentioned, any other recent examples?

I looked into the sails for the female Thor and some other things once.

Once, and a vague answer. I'm talking recent sales, like the past few months. The old Jane Foster Thor story started four years ago. But you cannot just look there. You gotta look at the sales cumulatively for Marvel and DC.

I've read some old comics, but haven't seen anything too political.

I ask you to read the Lee-Romita Spider-Man run from the mid 60's. X-Men's entirety. Bill Mantlo Spider-Man, Conway Spider-Man. Even Superman in the 40's. Captain America's entire CREATION was due to political propaganda during World War 2 to get American volunteers into the war!

you would see that the MCU was mostly inspired by the pre/early 80s bits.

I have looked at the MCU and come to the realization that it has many influences from books across the decades, not just those two decades. The first Iron Man film was based on his origin from the 60s. Ultron was a conception from the 60's, Loki being the main villain in Avengers was from Avengers #1 in the 60's. The Winter Soldier and Civil War were adaptions of Captain America books from the early 2000's! Even Spider-Man's villains in Homecoming and Far From Home had influences from the 60's and 70's books.

The only reason some of the 80's and 90's elements are there is because some of Marvel's most well-remembered and renowned comics came from that decade. But they were still surrounded by utter garbage at their times.

[Toa_Vladin]

bsolutely not. Marvel has turned around characters in the past and can do it again. A 'cleaning' is a lazy way out. Besides, I think there are gems people have not seen in all of the rough

Wait, what did you understood by cleaning?

How hard is it to read a 20 page comic?

No, the question is how hard is it to keep track of multiple ongoing stories based on tge same characters, composed out of 20 pages.

You've read a few; besides the transformers you mentioned, any other recent examples?

Uhm... Silver Surfer vol 8, a little bit of 7, some Spider-Verse, especially the Spider-Woman series that ties into the event (vol 3 I think?), some of the old Iron Man, Spider-Man, Hulk and Ant-Man stories, etc.

I have looked at the MCU and come to the realization that it has many influences from books across the decades, not just those two decades. The first Iron Man film was based on his origin from the 60s. Ultron was a conception from the 60's, Loki being the main villain in Avengers was from Avengers #1 in the 60's. The Winter Soldier and Civil War were adaptions of Captain America books from the early 2000's! Even Spider-Man's villains in Homecoming and Far From Home had influences from the 60's and 70's books.

The only reason some of the 80's and 90's elements are there is because some of Marvel's most well-remembered and renowned comics came from that decade. But they were still surrounded by utter garbage at their times

You misunderstood me. I was saying that after the Infinity Saga, which was predominantly inspired by the 60s and 70s, I imagine the next phases to be inspired by the 80s and 90s.

[Chronicler]

Wait, what did you understood by cleaning?

I'm certain I did. You want them to go back to basics, correct?

If so, 1. they are already doing that, and 2. I still think that's lazy for Marvel.

No, the question is how hard is it to keep track of multiple ongoing stories based on tge same characters, composed out of 20 pages.

This is a fair point, and one of the problems of the industry. It does get overwhelming. But at the very least, they have cut down on this issue.

Uhm... Silver Surfer vol 8, a little bit of 7, some Spider-Verse, especially the Spider-Woman series that ties into the event (vol 3 I think?), some of the old Iron Man, Spider-Man, Hulk and Ant-Man stories, etc.

Many of these are from three years ago. I'd say at least attempt Nick Spencer's newest Spider-Man run and see how you like it to get a taste of Marvel's best right now. It doesn't have many tie-ins. Either that or read a bit of Donny Cates' Venom. That has been great.

I was saying that after the Infinity Saga, which was predominantly inspired by the 60s and 70s, I imagine the next phases to be inspired by the 80s and 90s.

But even that is incorrect. The stuff with the Infinity Stones was, indeed, a product of the 80's and 90's as the Thanos story was developing. Truth be told, we have no idea what Marvel Studios is planning for the future besides a few shows and movies. It is too early to jump to the conclusion on decades or stories they are portraying when we hardly have any info.

[Toa_Vladin]

certain I did. You want them to go back to basics, correct

I just want a cleaner, easier to catch up universe. I want them to specifically say "yes, this shenanigan that we did in the early 20s is still canon". I want them to try to fill in all tge wholes caused by a 60+ years of runtime, and to go for a more liniar storytelling.

[Chronicler]

That I can definitely agree with. Marvel does need to clean up their retcons and have a determined canon. (This issue is prevalent mostly because writers don't bother to read previous runs. Looking at you, Jason Aaron and Costa). And it is already happening to some extent, honestly.

[Toa_Vladin]

You honestly are portraying a new universe as a revival. I think I'll check it out at some point.

[ToaNoah_Wafflemeister]

Meanwhile, I cant commit to going full-nerd yet, so I can’t bring myself to read the comics.

By the way, I don’t mean this to be an insult. I think the comics are super cool, I just don’t have a lot of access to them, not a ton of motivation when I just have these brilliant movies and not a lot of time, and I wouldn’t know how to start.