The Golden Skinned Being is a must
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(Not that I want a contest, but if it does happen, which it seems to be heading towards), Gar, the Onu-Matoran who travelled with Idris, Sarda and Defilak.
Now, you might think “Wouldn’t Gar look like the other Mahritoran?”, but there’s no reason to assume that, because Dekar, Idris, Defilak and Sarda all look the same because they all came from the same land (Lesovikk’s homeland) prior to being sent to Karzahni. They do not look the way to do due to Pit Mutations, but rather because the Pit Mutagen undid their previous “mutations” (Karzahni’s rebuilding), which it needs to before doing any mutations of its own. (Idris and Sarda are of course however mutated in their set form, which is why they have “gills” (tubes).
Since Gar could have been literally any Onu-Matoran sent to Karzahni from anywhere throughout the universe, that poses the chance to make an appearance for a significant Matoran with a new build. Making a standard Mahritoran or Metrutoran (Ihu, Mavrah, Kodan) wouldn’t be much of a MOC contest, now would it?
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(To be honest it’s still weird that different Matoran builds (apart from the '01 and '03 differences which have a foundation in lore) exist in-universe at all)
Come to actually directly think of it, there are only characters I’d be indifferent about and characters I’d really hate to be depicted in a way I don’t like…
Of course, there’s also Botar’s replacement
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Very quick to take things out of context and jump to defend against something not even postulated. If the train was on such tracks, there is a chance it could go there, but the train is not on those tracks, nor is it the same train. Nothing that has been stated up until this point that has in any way indicated past works created by Greg while still under authority from Lego are invalid.
Perhaps read the definitions again and the line is very clearly defined. The last of any delegated authority that Greg was given by Lego over Bionicle was to answer fan questions on the Lego Message Boards. It is perfectly in question to wonder if he still even has that authority with the LMBs discontinuation. Chances are likely, given Greg would ask Lego before coming over here.
Yes, he was temporarily granted permission by Lego to continue the story through serials on Bioniclestory.com, but that has since changed with the site being shut down. As Greg himself has stated on various different occasions, even now, he would not publish something in relation to Bionicle without Lego’s permission, consent, and blessing. Lego, not Greg, is the only real authority as to what is and is not canon as they are the creator/owner of the IP. The only times Greg has any official capacity over canon is when Lego delegates such to him.
And as it currently stands, from what can be seen, Greg no longer in an official capacity speaks for Lego on the matters of Bionicle. No different than Christian Faber or any other person who worked on Bionicle. Any relation or introduction of him by Lego as the author of Bionicle simply acknowledges what he is most known for, what he has most significantly done for the company that others might recognize. It is no different than introducing Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones or Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker.
Tommy Andreason is to be treated no differently than Greg. Or rather, even less as Greg was given permission to give answers to such questions. Anything Tommy has done falls outside of delegated responsibilities and would be considered as Headcanon/Unofficial Material.
It is not to say it is to be completely ignored or to just dismiss anything they say. It is simply to acknowledge who controls and owns canon. And that anything said by former representatives of a dissolved line or even current representatives of an active line do not get to dictate canon unless otherwise given such authority to do so. Otherwise, it is unofficial but insightful facts that were cut, rejected, or otherwise somehow did not make it into the IP as put out by/for Lego.
Ultimately, the problem with canonizations contests is the arrogance of the fans thinking they can control what they do not own. And thinking that if they get anyone with enough clout who used to have authority on a subject to approve that it is good enough to include as law. There is only one dictator of canon and its not the fans nor even those who worked on the IP, but the owner. And only the owner can decided who can have additional say over canon.
But that is a side point, however legitimate a reason for why some may vote no in this poll. The poll assumes that Greg is all that’s needed for authority, even if that’s incorrect by definition of canon, and so the only true matter is should it be done. Should the fans be allowed to have contests for the purposes of canonizing something, anything? And what harm, or good, would result and continue to result from doing so?
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This post treats LEGO as though its a sentient entity that can speak for itself. LEGO as a company holds the ownership of BIONICLE, but LEGO is just a collective of individuals who are all in charge of separate facets of the company.
So I have to ask, if not Greg, then who holds the authority over BIONICLE canon?
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Greg or LEGO’s authority over the canon only matters insofar as money is being made from BIONICLE. If these contests were to go forward and have results, which were then accepted as canon, so long as no money was being transacted, LEGO has no reason (and, presumably, no desire) to contest Greg’s authority.
If, for example, the unlikely event of BIONICLE G1 being continued were to occur, with actual sets and story, the new story team would redefine the canon as they see fit, and if that wiped out the results of these contests, so be it…there’s no issue inherent in anything.
At the end of the day, these contests are nothing more than an expanded form of fanfiction and fanart, only with the label of “canon” attached to them–a label which can be removed at any time by whomever has the authority to do so.
Yes, there definitely needs to be a contest for that iconic character 
Especially since he’s been described as looking absolutely identical to Botar.
So the whole contest would be people building the combiner, and everything would come down to presention. 
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Ok to chip in my 2 cents, I don’t see much of an issue with this, a lot of stuff in Bionicle never had official sets or was described in much detail, even if the contest winner doesn’t represent your headcanon of the thing in question, the creativity and the potential surge it’ll give the community as a result is worth it in my books.
Even then, if you don’t like the winner, it doesn’t have to be part of your view on the canon, I’m sure some people consider only the official Lego released sets to be canon and all else to be fan made.
Just some thoughts, basically, I see no harm done.
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It’s also in my first post as well. Typically speaking, as far as a court would be concerned, Lego is a singular entity, an individual. While in actuality, yes, it is composed of many people, but Lego itself would be the one held accountable in court. But since they aren’t physically a singular person, they would have representatives in their stead to defend themselves (or make decisions in this case). Therefore, Lego still hold authority over Bionicle canon. It’s Lego, because the people within can change, but the entity that holds that authority, Lego, ultimately does not.
Unless they sell off the IP or it falls into Public Domain, etc. etc. As for a specific person, it is anyone’s guess. As far as anyone can be concerned, whoever would give the okay for Greg to publish continuations of the unfinished serials could likely be considered good enough to delegate such authority. Really, as far as the community end should be concerned, if it is to be official canon, as long as someone from Lego that Greg accepts as having authority on the matter said it was okay, that’s all that’s needed. He has been given the permission needed.
Outside of sake of discussion, I fully realize that Lego does not care and that Greg is the best person for this. That’s why I say the primary discussion should we be allowed to affect canon.That is the point of the poll, to see if people would be interested and okay with that. But unless canon is defined differently, and I would be very interested to see what others would use as the definition of canon for Bionicle, it would be difficult to get people to accept it as canon. Officially as true canon.
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We’re gonna come back to this in a second.
I read them. I am now asking for their source. Who has determined these definitions?
Who is this “LEGO” you speak of? LEGO is (as Var has already said) a company, a group of people, individuals. Individuals that make decisions not overseen by a singular “LEGO.” So I’ll ask the same question - If not Greg, who?
Additionally, let’s do a quick refresh on his position in the company:
Let’s bring the exact quote into question here.
Approvals of what he wrote. There are no propositions for writing contests. And in the past, there were no other people signing off on visual designs in regards to fan contests aside from Mr. Farshtey himself.
Tommy Andreasen is a concept developer. Greg even said on my Show that Tommy can basically canonize things by himself. And again, I must sincerely stress, these individuals both actively work for LEGO and have for roughly 20 years.
Neither of these people are former representatives. They are active representatives for the company entirely and their jurisdiction, which includes the themes they heavily worked on.
I agree, however I’m not seeing that from the people in support of these contests. The deciding factor here is Greg Farshtey, the fan contests would just forward their pick to be decided on.
Back to this. It’s really hard to take anything out of context here when these quotes can be jumped back up to. Additionally, nothing you said has been taken out of context. Your argument thus far has been to decry the legitimacy of Greg Farshtey as a source for BIONICLE canon, which leads us to questioning a slew of information over the years. The reason I point this out is because Greg Farshtey is still acting under authority of LEGO. He is representing the company. I’d agree with you if he weren’t, but he still is. LEGO permitted him to be here and act in official capacity.
Where do you believe you were taken out of context here? Or am I misunderstanding your point of view?
Hang on, I say this mostly in jest but I have to know. If I can get the official LEGO Twitter account to say that Greg Farshtey has full authority to dictate BIONICLE G1 canon, is that all we need here? Or do we need a blood relative of the founder of the company to sign off on it? What’s the bar here?
Quick aside, but @Husk, your english is excellent. I would not have guessed you did not speak it as a first language.
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Ok but someone must have the ultimate say in what can be considered canon, yes? If you believe someone has to give Greg permission… then who gave this person permission to decide… and where did THAT person receive permission… how long does this permission train keep going until we’re finally satisfied.
Why would Greg’s hypothetical boss be considered the authority on BIONICLE G1 lore and not Greg himself, the sole author of said lore. Do you actually believe that Greg has to make sure he checks in with the powers-that-be every single time he added someone to his story?
Or should we assume (and I think we absolutely should) that perhaps LEGO has entrusted Greg with the ability to conduct story-based decisions on a portion of the property that the company will never return to, as would be suggested by the previous statements by LEGO that continuation of G1’s story would fall on Greg post 2010.
But ok. Let’s assume that Greg DOES have to report to someone about changes to the story. Who?
My guess would be the Editorial Director, who oversees the creative direction of all publications out of LEGO. One would assume that Greg has done this, given that he was very quick to say yes not only to the idea of canonization. But maybe we should reach out to this director just to make sure we’ve covered our bases.
So whos the Editorial Director? Oh that’s right, it’s Greg.
My point being that your criteria for who can decide what is canon and who can’t is arbitrary. There’s no reason to doubt that Greg has full authority over the story of G1- otherwise he wouldn’t have agreed to make changes to it in the first place. And unless you can actually point to someone with a say in the BIONICLE G1 story who’s above Greg I see no reason to doubt the validity of his decisions in regards to canon.
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Greg in 2010:
Greg: “Hey, Jorgen Vig Knudstorp (the CEO of LEGO in 2010), can I make Velika a Great Being?”
Jorgen Vig Knudstorp: “Um… who are you?”
Greg: “I’m Greg Farshtey. I write the BIONICLE books and the boss of my boss of my boss of my boss of my boss of my boss to my editor says to report to you on these things. Can Velika be a Great Being?”
Jorgen Vig Knudstorp: “…sure, whatever, you say George.”
Greg: “Thanks!”
Jorgen to his assistant after Greg leaves: “What’s a BIONICLE?”
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Honestly my thoughts have warmed on them a bit. I’m still not super into the idea, but I’m at least interested in seeing what’ll come of them. And maybe we could get some story stuff at some point?
That said there’s some characters I wouldn’t want to see that I’ve seen thrown around. Marendar specifically. He’s a character we know almost nothing about and giving him a visual depiction also gives him a bit of personality, which gives the winner of the contest more power over the character’s depiction than other contests would.
A question: In last podcast regarding this matter you said, that you were to give Greg a list of characters you want to make contest for for him to approve. Was there any progress regarding this since? And if I may, which characters are those on a list?
We must canonize Toa Thode.
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You didn’t realize this but Toa Range was already in the canon, hiding.
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Thanks @Eljay, but I’m sure you wouldn’t say so if you knew the time it takes to be sure the message is coherent and understandable hehehe.
TLDR: skip to last paragraph if you do not have time to read my ramblings
That said, I understand that there’s a difference in prespective and who people consider to be the ultimate autority in the matter of official Canon.
For me, that fact that Greg still works at Lego and worked on G1 is not enough since the line was discontinued.
It is surprising to me that this many fans wouldn’t perceive as two different things the stories, notions (and what else) published and made during the line’s runtime and what was said and done after it ended. I mean, it ended, officially. Greg was given permission to continue a bit with the serials to smooth the abrupt ending and was left free to answer questions because it wouldn’t lead to anything bad. It is pretty apparent to me that the G1 line is, from Lego’s perspective, at best in stasis, packed away for an indetermined amount of time, and at worst, just finished. It is not still running, under the authority of Greg who was put in charge and given full powers to continue the line, it has stopped.
Can we agree that there’s a recognisable difference between what was established during the line’s active life, and what came after it? I don’t mean in quality, I mean as in: " X was said in 2007, when bionicle was live and well" and “Y was said in 2013, after the line ended”?
I don’t know, for me it is a jarring fact, a distinction clear as day.
Is it then that for you what Greg says after G1 ended is perceived as if nothing changed, as if these things were said (or example) in 2008?
Would you consider as an acceptable possibilty to define/lable what was said after G1 was discontinued as something even slightly different? To acknowledge that ‘something’ changed, just for clarity sake at least.
To put a note about the moc of the winners clarifying that the depictions were selected and accepted well after the line ended by Greg and not (don’t what to call it) a fully active team selected by Lego currently working on the line that was instead put to rest years ago?
I don’t want to come off as rude, I’m genuinely intrested to know if I’m the only one that views things done after the ending of the line as a sort of EU, like a Star Wars Legends of sorts, would that be stories or ‘canonized depictions’. For the record, I love Legends, as I love everything that Greg did after G1’s ending, just how it is so controversial to recognise the line that was drawn by Lego itself, it’s discontinuation, as something defining for the line? As something worth acknowledging ad meaningful?
• If I may, I’d also like to stress the point i made a while ago about a minimum threshold of voters to consider this poll (and the contest) as something the Bionicle community voted for. I mean, I didn’t even know TTV existed around 2 years ago, but I was still Bionicle fan…maybe that is the point I’m trying to convey with all of this, how that is related to the the concept of Official Canon, Lego as a company. The fact that line was officially discontinued and that Greg is literally hosted on a fan site, I know and understand the various reasons, but still…I cannot recognize this as something equivalent to an official announcement from Lego, so I cannot recognize it as official G1 canon. Lego is the owner of Bionicle, not an ex author for the line, a great person, a great creative, a pillar of Bionicle, but nothing Official in this situation.
I thank anyone who had the patience to read, hope I made my point of view clearer, more accessible, have a good night.
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So here’s the thing @Husk because I actually agree with where you’re coming from but just not what you’re actually saying.
The truth is that with Lego being finished with Bionicle, the final and only arbiter of real canon right now is Greg. He’s also significantly more than just an “Ex author” of the line. As Var as pointed out, he’s the editorial director at Lego.
While there are overlapping responsibilities based on employer, an editorial director and managing editor have different roles. A director is in charge of the overall direction of the publication and its content, whether online or in print. All writing selected for the publication should fit in with the vision of the editorial director. They oversee the managing editor, who focuses on supervising staff members, assigning articles, and ensuring deadlines are met. Qualifications for both positions often include a bachelor’s or master’s degree in journalism, English, marketing, or related field; experience in publishing content; and communication skills.
-Ziprecuiter
What that means is that Greg Farshtey IS the word from Lego, not just on Bionicle but on everything that comes out of the company. He is the closest thing we have and will ever have to “LEGO” saying anything, barring an official statement from the CEO.
What you have to bear in mind is that while Lego the company owns the line, Greg Farshtey and the story team created the world and decided what was and wasn’t canon. Lego never made official statements after canon contests in the old days either, rather their approval was implied by the corporate body continuing to let Greg onto sites like BZPower and not shutting those contests down.
So while your points are actually relevant in terms of community involvement for the polls, the fact remains that if it was good enough for Greg Farshtey (back when he was just on the story team) and it was good enough for us, it should be more than good enough for us now that he’s running the entire show.
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