POLL: BIONICLE G1 Canonization Contests?

I still support letting people use 3d models in their mocs for the contests, but this is a great alternative if using printed parts is disallowed.

I still hope that custom parts will be banned altogether - at least in terms of MOCs (hopefully there’ll be a seperate poll to define the contest rules).

First off this is a Lego MOC contest, not a bootleg contest.

Second, the thing about custom parts is that you can use them if you want to, but don’t have to use them. If such a part were to be canonized, though, you’d be forced to use it if you want your own physical copy of the MOC and be as good as forced to use it depending on what part it is if you want to revamp it. Imagine wanting to build Tahu, but there’s no official Hau piece.

Third - especially concerning masks - the head is one of the most important parts of a MOC. A mediocre MOC with a good, unique 3D-printed mask would likely win against a MOC with a generic head which is otherwise better built. And that’s quite unfair, especially since the 3D part normally probably wouldn’t have been designed by the person using it. That’s like asking someone to do your assignment for you.


Let me clarify one thing, however - I understand those people who are fine with their custom work being used for such contests. If I were a 3D designer I’d also have no issue with allowing my designs to be used. Except that I believe it goes against the core principles of a canon Lego contest due to the things I mentioned above.

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I’ve made a 3D Moc of Toa Helryx a very long time ago on Lego Digital Designer so I can submit that and share it with the community. So excited for this! All in all, whether I win or not, I cannot wait to see everyone doing their bit!

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Hi everybody I like to 3D model and I just want to let you know that every custom piece that i make will be available for free probably on thingiverse (I’m not sure) so you will be able to use them as long as you credit me.
I hope that this will be useful to someone even if there are better modelers than me.

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I respect and accept this decision, and I think that everyone else should as well. Even though I personally think your masks have some of the best designs of the various creators out there who model masks, you have the absolute right as a creator to not want them used in an official capacity, especially one as controversial as this.

Personally, after much thought, I have come to a couple of individual conclusions:

First, I think a rigid percentage of custom, 3D-printed parts must be adhered to in these contests, perhaps limiting their use to 1 or 2 custom pieces per MOC, depending on the description of the character in question. If I was to be very draconian, I would suggest that all submissions including 3D parts should use custom pieces made by the applicant themselves, but that disadvantages those without 3D modeling skills (such as myself, for one).

Secondly–and I think that I or someone else has brought this idea up before–for characters with masks whose shapes have not been defined, I think it is imperative that a separate contest be held to determine the mask shape PRIOR to the contest for the depiction of the character, a contest that is not limited to modeling, but also to art. It’s only fair (when depictions of a character come into play) that everyone be on a level playing field when it comes to the shape of the mask they wear, because if that is not the case, I fear the character contest will essentially devolve into a mask-shape competition, with voters/judges deciding the character’s overall appearance solely based on the mask, rather than accuracy to the the character, or the MOC’s other attributes.

Therefore, I think it’s important that–provided the shapes of these masks are canonized first–everyone be allowed to either have access to an official, purchasable model of it, or be permitted to submit MOCs with a placeholder mask that is acknowledged as such, so that voters can be sure to judge the MOC as if it were wearing the canon mask.

Also, as a final note, given the current circumstances the world is facing, it may be better off if, once a decision is reached about these contests, that major ones are held off on until the situation calms down, as certain members who want to participate may be limited by certain quarantine measures, such as their ability to receive parts deliveries, access materials, etc. I’m sure this discussion is already being had, but it’s a worthy topic to broach regardless.

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I agree with all of this.
It would make a lot more sense to have a separate contest for designing a character’s mask before the actual moc contest for the character. This would help make sure the best/ most popular mask design becomes the canon depiction, and would limit the amount of influence the custom masks have when deciding the best moc of a character.

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Well said. It’s better to take these things slowly and surely. If possible, I’d go with the formula down below.

  1. Determine what mask is worn by X. Allow people to post mocs wearing the mask if there is a design, canon or not, so that people can make a more informed decision.

  2. Design mask Y. Once again, people can show their designs on mocs so that people can see how it looks and make an informed decision.

  3. Have the moc contest pertaining to X wearing Y.

  4. Repeat.

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I’m fine with contests, but I am very against Angonce and Heremus having descriptions, MoCs, or artwork made of them. The Great Beings should be kept mysterious and unknown.

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I certainly respect King’s decision, especially if we consider previous G1 BIONICLE contests were held before the advent of 3-D printing. I feel, if we wish to capture the G1 building contests, we ought to abide by Lego’s available pieces. Especially considering that BIONICLE still is a Lego brand.

True, we have gone beyond that and 3-D printing is an excellent tool. Personally, I am not against the use of 3-D printed pieces. However, I am also someone who tends to like the uniformity of Lego’s pieces and their scaling and texturing. Some 3-D printed pieces I have found feels too alien to Technic and CCBS, down to even texture. And sometimes they feel too short or too long for piece use.

I’d be open to it if the 3-D printed pieces both resembled LEGO pieces (such as the posable Toa Mata arms created on shapeways) and scaled well with them. This includes custom masks. After all, while Lego is about creativity, it also has a system with clear rules for their pieces.

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I’m certainly coming into the discussion fairly late, but hopefully my input offers something to it. I’m probably going to just be repeating other points given this topic has gone on long enough that multiple viewpoints have already made themselves known, but hey, never hurts to help them be viewed again given how long this has gone on, and how long the comments go on for.

I want to keep this as short as I can, so in summary:

No MOCs of the Great Beings, like @Wamsutta above me, said.

Only 3D printed masks should be allowed, and should not factor to judging the design. If a build has a nice mask, but looks inferior to a build with an official mask, then the better build should win, not whether it uses a printed mask, or not.

Only G1 to Hero Factory 1.0 parts should be permitted. This is G1’s story, and characters, having G2 parts makes no sense, and muddies the design principles, and appearances that G1 is so well-known for.

No Literary entries. It removes what mystery, and intrigue we have in the already-finished story, would muddy things up considering not even Greg knows even an eighth of the canon, anymore, so he could easily canonize something that adds countless plot holes, and I can already guarantee there will be tons of poorly-written entries, and a lot of self-insert stuff. Greg has done great things for BIONICLE, but ten years later he’s a detriment to anything literary in canon as his own memory of it has proven itself beyond poor, and faulty multiple times, which is understandable given how long it’s been.

I hope my input has helped offer something to the discussion, and I hope they are seen by the likes of Mesonak to aid in the expression of thoughts, and limitations for what would, and wouldn’t make sense, and work in favor of BIONICLE G1’s community, which while still stronger in recent years, could be easily fragmented, and shattered by this one, single event going badly. It’s been damaged worse by lesser, so it should be considered.

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I am in full agreement here. Considering the fact that those contests will decide the winners by voting, It would be very easy for an average person to vote for lackluster builds with good 3D Printed Masks as opposed to very good builds but generic masks.

Not to mention, with the current situation the world faces, it would be very hard for most people who are currently quarantined to buy 3D printed masks, and those who have access to them right now or already own them would have a very unfair advantage.

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I actually didn’t consider the fact this contest will be determined by votes. People would most likely vote for what looks the coolest, regardless of how good the build is. If the community itself does the voting, then 3D printed parts, even masks which are the very face, could not have an impartial vote. I always see 3D printed repeatedly shown immense favor, and praise, so if the community itself is to be relied upon for vote, then there would be a bias, and the competition would be rendered legally rigged for those who can print parts in their homes. I didn’t even take the quarantine into consideration, either, which adds an additional layer only making the contests between the purists, and those with a printer in their house, or garage, and the latter would objectively have the advantage in every entry.

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The “mediocre moc with 3D-printed mask” and “good moc with generic head” strawman is eye-rolling, especially after stating the head is one of the most important pieces. A bad moc with a 3D printed mask is still a bad moc, and using a strawman is an unfair assessment.

The same argument can be applied to people using lego pieces. Is lego doing your assignment for you because they made most of the parts? Quite a few 3D modelers have designed their parts so that other people could use them.

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I’m not saying a bad MOC with a great 3D-printed mask would win vs a much better one. I’m saying a mediocre MOC with a unique, 3D-printed mask is more likely to win because of the unique mask vs a slightly better one or even one of the same quality.

Just as an example, let’s say Toa Bomonga’s look were to be defined solely by a MOC contest, and there are two entries which are basically just Metru builds without any too complicated additions so as to fit in with Iruini and Norik. One MOCist uses a golden Hau for Bomonga, saying that it’s a Mask of Growth in the shape of a Hau because the Toa Hagah wear masks in the shape of the masks of past heroes. The other entry has a good looking, unique, 3D-printed mask.

Which entry would likely win?
Would things change if the first MOCist gave his MOC a decent, but not stellar custom head built from smaller pieces? That’d be obviously quite some more effort put into the MOC than simply buying a mask, but the result would likely fail to appear like a perfect mask. So yes, the second MOCist has good chances of still winning, simply by letting someone else do the work on the mask. At this point it’d come down to a 3D-design contest. And at a certain point it won’t be different for Artakha, Helryx and the Yesterday Quest Toa.

Also let me repeat once more that this is a Bionicle contest. Bionicle is owned by Lego. Has there ever been a Lego contest allowing bootleg parts? Yes, this contest won’t be hosted by Lego, but the same principles should apply. Or how would you feel if suddenly pieces from Mega Construx, Xingbao, etc. were also being used to define Bionicle canon? Might also as well make stuff out of wood, clay or whatever at that point.

And exactly that’s the thing - so people can use them, not have to use them. I’m certainly of the opinion that there are a lot of amazing 3D designs out there which give a lot of MOCs great personality, but forcing these designs onto people is a no-go in my eyes.

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Despite not having seen this become a major problem in the community, I appreciate the clarification. I don’t expect it to become a major problem in the contests though.

This is a Bionicle contest, yes. We’re not in disagreement there. Comparing 3D printed parts, specifically made for Bionicle, to wood is a false equivalency and comes off as intellectual dishonesty, which I hope is not the case. Same applies to the rest of the things listed above. I’m not going to change my mind because of the slippery slope fallacy.

Forcing people not to use them is also a no-go. A good compromise would be to have two masks on standby. One Lego piece, and one 3D-printed mask. For example, let’s say X wins. X would have both a custom mask and a Lego piece on standby. It’s my belief that this is the best of both words and that no one will be left out.

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That would indeed be a acceptable compromise, I agree. At least for me as someone who basically only wants to be able to build a winner model with official parts only.

I would still wonder under these circumstances why a canonized custom part is even necessary, but it would remove the actual problems I personally have with the entire matter.

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Most excellent. I don’t like being left out of stuff and I don’t want others to feel the same way. I’m glad we could come to an acceptable compromise and remove the problems you had with it.

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Wow, lot of new talk about custom parts. I honestly didn’t think there would be this many people on TTV actually on board with the idea. I gotta add my two cents here.

Main point: NO custom parts allowed (except maybe masks, I’ll get into that).

If this contest is going to be even remotely structured, we need to have an agreed upon standard for parts. Normally, this is simple enough - it’s any piece made by lego. People can argue about ccbs or not, but whatever comes of that debate at least it stays within the same easily understood and consistent standard - released lego pieces. Allowing custom 3d made parts introduces a whole new can of worms that can’t be closed. Anyone can potentially design any part they want, no matter how implausible or un lego-like. The implausibility isn’t the issue here, the now inconsistent set of standards are; it would be unfair.

If I want the exact shape of two pieces that can’t physically attach, what’s the functional difference between me supergluing them together vs just making it a single solid 3d printed part? Because I’m assuming most people are against the use of superglue. What’s the functional difference between using a bootleg accessory vs designing a 3d part that looks exactly like it? I assume most people would be against the use of gloppo armor pieces. What’s the functional difference between cutting axles, cutting pieces, cutting off ball joints vs just 3d printing them? Because usually it’s agreed that physical modification of parts is unfair. Frankly, what’s to stop me from just 3d printing every limb and the entire torso as its own completely custom design that exists apart from any known piece? Everytime I want to create a detailed shape I don’t have to look for a way to build it, I can just print it. This defeats the purpose of the contest being a lego contest at all. Just open it up to a general art competition, people should submit sculptures and clay figures. This analogy goes too far? Then someone convince me that there’s a cut and dry standard to systematically judge what custom pieces would look “bionicle enough” to be allowed and what wouldn’t. That’s rhetorical; there is none. The only way to keep logical integrity behind the rules is to stick to the simple solution - only lego parts.

The only place I would potentially bend this is for masks. The mask is the most personalized detail to kanohi wearing bionicle sets, and assuming a rule that states custom masks can only be used as masks (no armor, shoulder pauldron etc) I’m wouldn’t mind too much it they’re allowed. Because they are so self contained to the head, I’m not inclined to believe they will drastically affect peoples’ judgement of the overall moc like a custom torso armor would. They seem relatively benign. Still, my vote is for someone else’s idea - that a separate mask designing contest should be held for characters that need it. Part of me wants to say this is now getting too fussy but it does make the most sense to me out of all the suggestions so far.

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I hadn’t even thought about that, but it makes perfect sense. Forcing a selection within a time period could easily lead to sub-par canonizations.

I also think that more than one ‘winner’ could be chosen for each character. For example, a character could have an Art depiction, as well as a MOC depiction. Both would present their own details to the character. Of course, they would have to be pretty similar as well; I wouldn’t want an official Art depiction that looks completely different from the MOC depiction. Most likely, the Art depiction would add small details that couldn’t be captured in a MOC, while the MOC depiction would allow other fans to build the character.

Kind of like how the sets look different from the movies; both are canon, yet they are slightly different.

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Actually, I’ve been thinking- @Mesonak, with the art contests, would 3D art be permitted, such as would carving, sculpting, etc.? That would open up some amazing possibilities.

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