Alright this is becoming a hot topic so I might as well say something.
This new topic, ‘targeting’ meme replies- it’s nothing new. Spam has been against the rules since the day the site opened. All I feel happened here was one rule was clarified by a cast member.
Meme topics have also always been against the rules- something a lot of young members do and forget about (or just didn’t read) rule. But that doesn’t make it ok. See?[quote=“Jon, post:1, topic:9196”]
Joke Topics are not allowed anywhere on the boards.The exception to this is the Master-exclusive Highly Suspect Hideout.
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And as Ranaki said,[quote=“Ranaki_Pakewa, post:68, topic:28389”]
The definition of a meme: “An element of a culture or system of behavior that may be considered to be passed from one individual to another by nongenetic means, especially imitation. A humorous image, video, piece of text, etc. that is copied (often with slight variations) and spread rapidly by Internet users.”
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Meme = joke. Therefore, let’s compare this to an IRL situation. If all I did was be annoying to people and say nothing but jokes, with no intellectual discussion or conversation, no one would like me. And in real situations, you can’t just turn everything into a joke. Like, I can’t just go to school and make “dank memes” everywhere, I need to put thought into it. There’s a time and a place for everything. And like I said before, this is nothing new.[quote=“Jon, post:1, topic:9196”]
Spam
Use common sense.
Do not post stuff that is unreadable or off topic.
Do not post useless content, such as only hashtags.
The staff retain discretion to decide what is and is not allowed.
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If it’s off topic, you can’t post it. In order to keep a civil discussion place with no hostility, rules must be set in place. Same reason with political and NSFW discussion. And double posts might as well be the same thing.
AND I think another worthy thing to note would be Eljay said you can be suspended for doing so. For the third time, nothing new. This is in the rules.
Again, see? It’s not like this is something new that just got implemented today. All I did was cite the rules, just like this topic.
But that doesn’t mean I don’t feel that can’t implement my own opinion on this rule while this topic is still up. Simply put, if it’s done on an intellectual way, it should be allowed. For example, Ranaki used the perfect example on this very topic.
It was used in a good way. After all, memes are dirivite of a certain situation that becomes popularized and used across the Internet (or World Wide Web for us old timers). And this isn’t some copy and pasted Google Definition, it’s how I perceive things. After all, I am not exactly new to these boards.
Like, I have seen this site grown, and I’m really active. I come on here almost everyday. I really love this site. But some rules just need to be made. Like for example, the leak policy. That rule worked out perfectly.
So all in all, I don’t think anyone was completely wrong. In fact, no one really did anything. All this topic was was a clarification of the rules. Again, just restating the rules. A friendly reminder was what this was.
It’s just saying add to discussion. For example in the Bionicle 2016 topic I have used a few memes and gifs myself but not without adding a paragraph around them. (I’m sure someone has seen these posts) And I know people are starting to be affected by this ordeal:
But I get it. The reason we got this ‘friendly reminder’ (again my words) is because of the recent 502 and 403 surge. This was the reason Project MESSAGE was moved to Discord and why this is happening. And it does take up server space. So did what Ranaki did.
Use photo sharing websites instead of using precious space and wasting website space. In fact, this really even shouldn’t just go for memes- I feel all images, if possible, should be linked, such MOC images.
And that’s it. Spam is nothing new, and there wasn’t even really a reason for this too be as big as a problem as its becoming. And yeah I’m usually the type of guy to make a meme and say something like “MEMEZ R OUR LYFE BLOOD” but I feel this needed actually discussion. Like what we are trying to achieve. I really tried to be on everyone’s side with this one. And everyone else probably made better posts then me anyway. Ranaki, Scar, Eljay, Takuma, and King all had great points.
I was directly refering to Eljay’s comment about quote;
where he implied popularity, not content, is what constitutes a like.
Again, you’ve taken what I’m saying away from it’s context. I was directly referring to his absolute statement, which was used to trivialize Scar’s point. Give me proof that I’m wrong, but generally 22 likes on a post that isn’t the start of a topic is generally high for the boards.
By that logic, in what measure can you value something as good or bad? Aside from a supreme deity declaring “Thou shalt not meme”, how can it’s value be measured aside from the affirmation of our peers? Likes are the boards measure of value. Each like is more than just a microsecond action, it is a persons explicit support or recognition of the content of the post.
Never said it didn’t.[quote=“TakumaNuva, post:69, topic:28389”]
Really? Broken? You seem to have posted a novel-length post just fine. A bug or two is a far, far cry from broken. Now who’s the one exaggerating?
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Aside from the time it takes to write a novel-length post, a normal shorter post has doubled in time to post due to the need for incessant button-mashing for the post to actually post.
Unless you can provide pure evidence, your dismissals are no more than a toddler sticking their fingers in their ears. If you can provide proof that Eljay has done more than Slime, John, Waj, etc, I’ll gladly accept otherwise. However, with real evidence you can find that according to the Users page, you can find that all three of the aforementioned Moderators have spent more time with the site than Eljay.
Is that enough proof, and not just assumptions for you?
Are the other testimonies on this very topic not enough? Unless you’re asking for me to divulge private chat room messages, you can find many testimonies across the site of how often the errors occur, and the amount of abandoned accounts of long-time users are also public for you to see on the Users page.
Never said I was, just pointing out that this site isn’t only a labor of love.
Simply put, unless every one of the users has an adblocker, each and every non-adblocking user is generating ads. Not that hard a concept, unless you just want to apply “assumptions” to everything. Need me to link you to the Google AdSense page to prove that ads generate revenue?[quote=“TakumaNuva, post:69, topic:28389”]
Do you know why BZPower has Premier Membership options where you pay for perks like a blog, rank images, etc.? Because ad revenue doesn’t come close to covering the cost of the forums. They merely help offset the cost. Not one cent of ad revenue is saved. Now consider that TTV doesn’t restrict various message board functions to paying members.
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They also have how many giveaways? And don’t say that it is only sets that Lego has donated for that purpose, unless they have been stockpiling retired sets from over ten years ago for it. I work in IT and know how much serverspace can cost, and ad revenue can compensate for server cost. [quote=“TakumaNuva, post:69, topic:28389”]
This is the most befuddling comment I’ve seen. The two are not related in any way whatsoever. It’s like getting mad at a police officer for giving you a speeding ticket when we still have trillions of dollars of national debt. Really, wat?
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It’s closer to spoilered for politicsThe war on drugs, which has been just as much of a lost cause as Prohibition was, while the money, manpower, etc could’ve been used for other things.
If I’ve missed anything, I’m sure you’ll let me know.
I might get a lot of flack for this, but I am going to throw my hat into the ring about this. Personally, I agree with both of these and it would be hard to decide which post describes my opinion better.
I personally have my own evidence of something like this happening (except it wasn’t a meme).
My most liked post was on the Bionicle is Officially Cancelled Topic where I posted a quote that I felt described the end of G2 Bionicle and was something that people could discuss.
Link is here:
However, Meso posted right under me with the word “sigh” that added almost nothing to the discussion, yet at the time of posting this, his post has almost 75% more likes than my post.
The reason for this is most likely caused by Meso being a cast member, so people will like almost whatever he posts, because they want to look “cool” or something like that. You then compare this to a Master who has not been on the boards that long, so most people don’t know that much about him.
All in all, the main reason people get likes on the boards is mostly because of what they post, but it can sometimes be attributed to the amount of popularity they have among the other users of the boards
Dear Lord, Anaru. Please stop acting like a child. Even I know to at least stay civilized with my posts, even if I’m not exactly TTV’s favorite right now.
Gonna give my word as a Mod here for a second: the biggest issue on the site is the glitchiness, not the memes.
So why are you guys complaining about spammy memes being outlawed? (Which has, for quite a while, been a rule we’ve been enforcing regardless.) You guys are practically defending Double Posts when you do this.
Sure the Double Post rule is weird, but it helps us make more thorough discussion and utilizes the site’s functions for the better. Plus it cuts down on spam. That’s what this rule is meant to do, I think. To make sure we encourage discussion.
Plus memes aren’t being 100% banned. Did you guys miss this?
I would like to thank @Scarilian, @pizzacheetah, @Ranaki_Pakewa, and anyone else who has been able to provide their input in mature and meaningful ways. I understand there is a lot to this rule that might not be ideal to many users, and I am more then willing to have a dialogue with our members regarding it, so long as we can do so appropriately.
Between this, work, and the stupid 403 error I’m really swamped at the moment. But I’ll do my best to address everyone when I get the chance and make any adjustments if I deem them necessary.
I still don’t get why everyone is saying things like “TTV is trying to take away our jokes” when they’re really not, @Eljay clearly said that we could still post memes, we just need to add more discussion, an example would be
I see an awesome moc, so I post an image that perfectly sums up my feelings about it, but instead of just putting that, I also include what I like about the MOC some constructive criticism (If it’s needed) all while maintaining a positive look on the MOC, because someone did put effort into making it
Well, I guess I might as well touch on this. A while ago I remember a case (I’m not saying names but people may remember) when a user once posted something like ‘yeah’ and the user was a long time user, and the post got quite a handful of likes. But then another, news user said basically ‘yeah’ and got no to a few likes. This could be an isolated case tho.
That’s not to say this always happens, but sometimes the user is a factor in likes, especially if they are a good poster and don’t post often. Usually less of something is more appreciated, one of the points that is trying to be made with this whole ordeal.
I’m going to back you up on this and say this is correct.
This is also true. It seems that the site actually handles the shorter posts worse, maybe the long posts need less time to process or something. Idk how it works.
The users page is the post solid eve since on the site there is. There are statistics as previously mentioned however they are not publicly available to all users. However, tho less adenced, the most concrete evidence would be that page.
I remember this. Like I said, earlier, there was another example of this and I think you had an even better one than I.
This also frequently happens when the “OG users” log on. (People who were the very first masters) Many of them rarely still visit, so people like their posts. Like I said in my last post,[quote=“moa, post:70, topic:28389”]
After all, I am not exactly new to these boards.
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I have seen it happen.
Exactly. Spammy memes are outlawed, but they weren’t outlawed today. People seem to be forgetting this.
Thank you!
This was the perfect post TBH, you summed up everything in a paragraph.
I think everyone is missing that jokes aren’t outlawed, we just should add more
discussion and actual thoughts to the jokes, and to be less spammy about how we use these memes.
I didn’t end up saying something really dumb right? I do that from time to time.
ye sorry bout that m8, been wanting to say that for a while but didn’t want to get into the war going on earlier.
(and 403 really doesn’t want me to either)
I get what you are trying to say and having just read this entire topic I’m wishing Judge Judy had a boards account (Yes I watch that show, so what?). I see great points from both sides of the argument, but I don’t exactly see what this argument is going to achieve. It’s like trying to start a petition on Change.com to get Makuta or the MOUP. As Kah… er, Jon, has said [quote=“Jon, post:1, topic:9196”]
This website is not a democracy. It’s a dictatorship.
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Bionicle ended recently and I’m pretty sure now isn’t a good time to be arguing about adding a few lines of text to an image.
I get the idea of stating your points and they are pretty good ones, but I don’t think arguing is going to change anything. And I’m 99% sure TTV isn’t doing this to harm us (but everything Eljay says is wrong no matter how right it is. That’s why we need a new leader, a leader not afraid of having his identity stolen and being killed in his sleep, a leader like me! VOTE KOPEKE FOR ELJAY 2016!), Takuma helped build the website so I’m pretty sure he would have a good grasp of the going-ons behind the boards.
(Unless I’m an idiot and he actually doesn’t and I’m spewing stuff without thinking this through.)
I’m pretty sure this whole comment was meaningless and did jack squat to help but those are just my thoughts.
Bunched a few of these quotes together to save space and make it flow better. You can refer back for the full context, not trying to mislead anyone.
As per Eljay’s comment here, that response with just an image without text would be breaking this new rule.
You have no evidence to support even a single aspect of your claim and it is simply not possible for you to judge how much someone finds something amusing. Your viewpoint is completely baseless - so I’m hard pressed to view it as anything other than a lie. Inaccurate? Misinformation? Misguided? Misconstrued? -shrugs- Whatever the proper term is.
Eljay, put simply, you actually do not have a single piece of data that measures user amusement - it simply isn’t included on this site. You made a remark about users experiencing amusement that was completely without facts. People finding meme’s or these videos or images humorous is NOT something the board has statistics on. There is no factual evidence you have.
I am measuring something easily traceable - user engagement in topics and comments. There are an absolute ton of ways you can measure this ranging from likes, comments, individual users, repeat viewings, frequent users, new users, etc…
One of the ways to do this is to take a random topic and see how many people have broken this rule in the past and how many likes they received is an actual statistic on the board - its a measurable aspect and I’ve shown some of those to you in the previous post. The boards document every like and comment (at least those not removed) and there is over a years worth of evidence on my side that any user can easily spot by simply finding memes or instances of this rule being broken previously. The highest levels of engagement come from images, new topics, or heated discussions.
In this debate, i am the one using the board statistics while you are claiming to know people’s personal amusement based on… well… nothing, Your passing off something as factual without showing anything behind it or backing it up with anything. There is no way to measure personal amusement nor to factually claim its a small group doing this - which is especially odd because this wouldn’t be an issue if it was just a small group that was doing so not noticed.
You can see the frequent posters directly under the first post (For example the Bionicle 2016 topic has 24) and you can see roughly the level of response that memes or images without comments get (22 likes on that image without discussion posted previously)
The frequent posters are your core fan base for that topic, the people who return time after time to post comments and interact and generally contribute. They are almost equalled by the number of members who found the image insightful, meaningful or to have some level of humour to warrant giving it a like.
The boards don’t have to cater to either side, but to claim that the majority of the boards simply don’t find things amusing (by claiming only a small group do) is alienating one side and implying the other side don’t find aspects funny even though once again, no way of measuring this.
If memes can or do provide commentary they are providing a discussion or an avenue for discussion - meaning they would indeed contribute to discussion.
Surprisingly the most engagement this topic has had other than the main post and Looch leaving is in people sharing their own thoughts/opinions on the rule.
Actually Eljay stated it wont do a single thing to solve the 403 errors as quoted above. This ‘friendly reminder’ is to do with the speed of the boards, which nobody has really had any issues with (Or at least no one has made a bug topic about it on the boards)
Staff from Project Message have admitted that removing Project Message has done nothing to help the 502 or 403 errors and they actually seem to have increased after the PM was deleted.
I’m personally making a tribute to the PM and its members parodying how terribad its death was xD Its kind of the final board related funny thing for a lot of the PM’s members (Pretty much the Master’s of the boards) who have now left the boards completely.
User engagement is something i often have talked about on the boards. Project Message was founded by mods so that they could interact with users and that they’d have a way to chat and things. It was so popular and sought after, with people trying to gain Master to get in, because that is the heart of the boards - the people and the way they interact. Sadly i feel the boards are losing a lot of people due to the 403 and interacting is made increasingly difficult due to that error - the timing of this rule and its rather unclear explanation does not help.
I understand you are swamped, i know you are very likely putting in a lot of time and effort into doing work and to try and find a solution to the 403 error that is no doubt causing the staff as much or even more stress than several of the users - amongst the other issues that the boards may have.
I am honestly not trying to cause any arguments here and have tried to explain my points in mature and meaningful ways by going in-depth - granted that means longer posts however it also means more aspects can be tackled as long as its read.
Regarding this rule, i have some queries given how poorly it seems it has been explained given users are still getting this rule incorrect (Such as users believing this will fix 403, that it only applies to memes, etc…) Its clear its been explained badly so users are confused about what it means.
#Query 1; Data usage
While I get what Eljay is saying here about a bunch of people only posting images, however i don’t see how the new rule is actually supposed to make the issue of data usage diminish.
And how does adding five words somehow make it use less data than having it use just an image? If it helps the boards that’s good, but the way its being explained makes it difficult to imagine if it even would help…
#Query 2; What actually qualifies
Going with the above image again, including five words basically telling people to look at the image according to Eljay somehow doesn’t qualify as rule breaking, so can you clarify why a comment not adding discussion attached to an image that is effectively a meme is not considered rule breaking?
#Query 3; Why the random jabs at users finding things amusing?
This topic, despite its name, as stated by Eljay several times is not about memes - though they may slightly be covered by the rule. Its about images, gifs or videos being posted without a comment accompanying them which it seems he personally views as both non-contributing to discussion and yet also providing commentary (Contradictory much?)
Yet despite how humour and amusement does not factor into this rule, it was brought up immediately along with claiming that a small group of the boards is the only ones who would find these things amusing, Are we to really believe that jokes such as Mardi Gras or other TTV related images, gif’s or videos are only liked by a very tiny minority and that the rest of the boards don’t find it amusing because that’s the way its portrayed here It didn’t have a place and has been the source of all heated discussions on this topic between almost every member and Eljay - so why was it there when it isn’t supported factually? (You cant measure amusement on this site)
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Shall leave it as three queries for now, hopefully explains the issues with how its been explained. A general summary or list of a trimmed down version of the points @IllustriousVar would probably help users a lot.
Something like;
Helps with speed of boards
Does not fix 403
Does/does not apply to update posts in MOC or art topics
Etc…
(Not sure if these are all accurate, but hopefully you get the idea)
(Once again, excuse typo’s due to 403’s)
Edit; Just had a new error ‘unspecified error’ guess that is some progress if its changed from 403…
There was also another topic “The Boards are becoming difficult to navigate” that was closed and deleted because of the… harsh words of the topic creator.
And I can site several posts in a certain PM about the loading speed of the boards.
Point is, practically everyone has complained about it.
This topic was made 18 days ago, during which the 502 error was active. Primarily this was/is the cause of the slow servers. The topic has been inactive since because the 502 error was fixed/turned into the 403 which doesn’t affect loading times as often (its more post/like related)
Speed of the boards is not a factor regarding the errors here, you can see multiple people in that topic mentioning the 502 error as the cause - because that’s what they were having issue with. Though Legomaster did mention solutions that could help fix the issue.
Legomaster has actually mentioned precisely why this new method of still uploading images but simply having text will not change the data usage. As he explains, its the uploading of images to the server is what causes slow loading (other than errors) - a problem that could reasonably be fixed by just encouraging people to use a hosting site for images rather than trying to reduce amount of images posted by getting people to add a bit of text also.
In essence, wouldn’t this solve the errors a lot more effectively? Encourage fans to use a hosting site or link images via a different site rather than upload = less strain on servers.
