This:
And this:
The following should also be a factor to consider.^
For more on this check the quoted reply and my previous relpies in this topic. As well as the repliers of those replies comments.
Best regards.
//Tarkur
I went and looked at the poll topic and our youtube videos on the subject; a total of 6 other people mentioned Marendar at all. To your credit, there are more people vocally skeptical of him than other characters in question, so I guess he is more “controversial” by default, but I hope you can understand that from my perspective, six posts out of, in totality, 500+ seems a drop in the bucket to me. I hear you when you say that there isn’t enough data to determine one way or another, but the fact of the matter is that there will always be those who don’t agree, and simply because majority dictates which path to take doesn’t make the other side happy. A lot more than six people voted no on the poll outright (16% in total, about 79), but operating under the basis of majority, the 75% of people who said yes cleared the way forward for the contest. The same will be true of any choice that is made here, one way or another, be it for contests or characters.
My first post in the topic even states as follows:
We made it pretty clear from word-go that we consider these characters on a level playing field and that the pool we would draw from would include people like Marendar. It’s our belief that anybody who cares enough to come to our site to vote in the poll would also care enough to read the post to know what they’re voting on.
That being said, even though I feel like people were well informed and voted/spoke their mind in accordance, obviously you don’t, and others do agree.
SO! I propose you this:
Going forward, after the Helryx contest ends (because we feel that Helryx, as it stands, is relatively non-controversial), we will hold polls during the three-week downtime between contests to determine who is next on the list. The amount of people who vote, their publicly posted thoughts, and the total ratio of people voting for each entry should serve as a pretty good indicator to us and the community at large who exactly people want to see a contest for; once we get down to the end, assuming your belief is correct and Marendar will be there, the poll will become whether or not to hold a contest for him at all. If people say no and would rather not see him (or whoever actually ends up in the final few), then we’ll eliminate him/them outright. This way, the community gets to voice opinions on a public platform through a character-by-character basis, decide the order of the contests, and potentially eliminate controversial or low priority characters altogether if that’s what they really want.
AN ADDITIONAL THOUGHT: Do you think your opinion would change on the matter (personally speaking, not the desire for more community input) if we asked Greg for a summary of what Marendar looks like to serve as a baseline for a contest? Like colors, a general description, etc.
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I really hope Orde ends up with a Sanok. I know it isn’t official, but most, if not all of the MOCs I’ve seen of him had a 3-d printed inorganic Sanok.
Same for Zaria and a Mask of Adaptation.
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To interject here - I think that having polls for each character before the next contest is a perfect solution to this issue and my own concerns about characters like Marendar would be quelled if this approach were taken. If enough people felt strongly about it the issue would be solved. (And I’m not at all bothered by Helryx being first on the list bc I think most people would agree she is the most obvious candidate for this.)
I would be very surprised if Greg actually had a general description of Marendar to give, he has said many times that he thinks in words and any description he created would likely be solely for the contest. Not to say that I’d be opposed to that if a Marendar contest were to go forward, but I don’t think it necessarily solves the issue at hand, either.
But that’s just me. 
I kind of imagined him with a Rode, myself - though I am sorta open to what the community comes up with.
That does bring up an interesting point, however - for these two in particular (whose appearances would fundamentally have an impact on their canon tools and equipment) people may simply vote for the character with the Kanohi they like the most rather than the actual design. Not saying that’s absolutely a bad thing, but it should be considered.
Obviously if Greg did confirm their masks, that issue wouldn’t exist. Otherwise I’d suggest a poll, but then we’re almost getting into Mangai of Ice #4 territory again…
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I personally hope not tbh. I think it would make sense, but I don’t want to people to be limited to a certain mask that they never even addressed they had. also I don’t have a sanok for my Orde moc and I don’t wanna get one but y’know
I don’t see how that’s substantially different from painting pieces, though. Plus it’s a lot cheaper, and you don’t have to ruin any pieces.
Is Kongu/Slizer teal really the same as “dark teal”? To me it sounds like Greg was thinking of a different color than normal teal when he said that.
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Likewise. Orde appears blunt and practical and straightforward, but somewhat unimaginative. The Sanok would best reflect him, especially due to being an underused mask. As for Zaria, owing to his survivalist nature and the requirement that he be constantly on the move due to the FeFa genocide, the Mask of Adaptation would be best suited for him. Plus, Zaria is a Toa of Iron, who is more used to urban areas so he would need to be able to adapt to different environments.
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I want to stress that that last paragraph couldn’t be further from the truth. A main character with a name and a speaking role is a far cry from an unknown Toa of Ice from Lhikan’s team who we never saw in the story. The two aren’t even on the same planet in terms of relevance.
Honestly, a common theme I’m seeing among people in this topic is an attempt to thwart people from voting for themselves. There are these efforts to control what people vote for before the contest have been begun. Who cares if someone votes for an Orde with a Rode? Or Pouks with a Kaukau? Is that not up to the individual to decide? Is confirming these appearances not the point?
These are main characters. Characters that have had a focus placed on them. Characters that have spoken with other characters, that have no reason to be hidden in obscurity. So yes, these contests will have an impact on their canon tools and equipment - that’s the point.
We will, however, ask Greg if he had any Kanohi in mind before particular contests start. If he doesn’t, it will be up to the individual to give it their best.
Because one is physical and the other is using software to digitally alter a design. We don’t want to entertain the blurry line of digitally altering physical MOCs and then creating a piece of artwork. For instance, embossed photos wouldn’t be allowed.
As an aside, if you are ruining pieces with paint, you method may need to be looked into. You can paint a piece and not ruin it. You also don’t have to paint any pieces at all.
Q: When you say Lariska is blue-green, do you mean like a teal-ish color or blue and green?
A: I mean like a tealish color
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6a. 3D printed pieces are limited to masks and weapons
First off, what exactly constitutes a weapon. Do shields count? What about a Toa Metru build Toa Hagah with custom Bohrok Shields on the chest? Could I use a blade with ball joints as arms? Or blades as fins? Could I put a naked Custom CCBS Torso on a hand and call it Artahka’s hammer then, claiming it’s a weapon piece, use that torso in the Main Moc? What if there were custom ammo for some of the already made weapons (I.e. Cordak, Midak, or Protector Elemental Blasters.) Or even custom Blasters like a crossbow that uses Lego rubber bands to launch axles. What about a catapult on the back of a Moc?
Second, why only weapons and masks? More choices only means even more creativity. As long as it follows the other rules, I think these would only make the contest more fun. There are all sorts of things there could be: Custom bones, armor, eyestalks, hands, feet, axles, technic liftarms. They just add more detail and variation. It’s definitely possible to make good looking Mocs that use these kinds of 3D printed parts and still feel like Bionicle.
Third, there should probably be rules on the piece’s design. 3D printed pieces should at least connect to Lego in some way. Technically someone could use a gun that can’t be held by a Moc. There should probably be size restrictions so you can’t say, put a human-sized mace on Helryx. It should at least feel like it is a Lego piece.
Oh, I agree, but I’m just pointing out that some naysayers may draw comparisons. I certainly think that finding out what mask a named, speaking character wears is fine (and a contest depicting the visual appearance is the best way to determine that short of an official appearance, in my opinion)
Woah, hey - I’m all for people voting for themselves. I don’t mind if “Orde with a Rode” is what people like, and the whole point of voting is to get a fair and equal consensus. So if it came across as trying to manipulate or “thwart” opinions, I’m sorry. My intent was more to ask what exactly it is that people are voting for.
To elaborate, my point was simply that if Bob makes an amazing MOC with a Kanohi Hau, but everyone prefer’s Joe’s MOC simply because it has a mask they prefer for the character, then people are really just voting on the Kanohi they like rather than the models. And to add to that, I am not saying this is necessarily good or bad, only that it likely will happen under the current format and TTV needs to decide whether or not they are ok with that being a factor in the voting.
I personally don’t have a strong opinion either way - I’m just raising points with a critical eye so that when the contests do come around they will hopefully be that much more airtight and fair for everyone. 
Another quick question that came to mind here - does this necessarily mean the official “teal” color is necessary? Greg’s definition of teal might not be referring to that specific color - I would personally think that anything one could reasonably define as “tealish” would be eligible (and if someone pushes too much, then they risk losing votes over it.)
tl;dr: Unless someone submits, like, pink Artahka (ok I’m using hyperbole but still ) I don’t think we can say "oh, that’s not teal, it’s dark teal. Sorry![quote=“Inertiic, post:128, topic:51546”]
Third, there should probably be rules on the piece’s design. 3D printed pieces should at least connect to Lego in some way.
[/quote]
I’d like to second this specific point as well.
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Is it something a Toa would carry? That’s a weapon. Or a Toa Tool, if you prefer.
We are confident that people will not attempt to circumvent the rules. They’re stated in plain, understandable English. If folks attempt to work around that, we’ll deal with it on a case-by-case basis.
Because it streamlines things. Those were the most common pieces to see made for new waves, and are often the most immediately identifying features of a character. Instead of worrying about the concerns of people taking issue with a torso piece they may/may not agree with being included, this keeps things tight and uniform, and allows itself to be more easily monitored.
We can consider that. We’ll talk it over.
My apologies, it was more of a general statement and not directed toward anyone specifically. And I get your point, it’s just from my perspective… Who cares why they’re voting? They feel that it’s the representation they want of that character. One of the folks we worked on the rules with made a really good point during the process: It makes no sense to try and make peoples decisions for them. Just let them vote if that’s their vote. The why is up to them, not us.
As far as I am aware, there are only two types of teal in the LEGO color palette. Dark Turquoise and Light Turquoise. (According to Bricklink.) Either of those would be used.
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Thanks for the clarification about only having masks and weapons. I may not agree, but I can understand that.
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There’s an idea that keeps getting kicked around in the comments that sounds something like this: “Ease of reproducibility should be a limitation for entries so that fans can make the winners themselves.” In responding to this I’m not replying directly to specific posts because it’s usually not that in its entirety, but shades of this alluded to in many separate instances. “Paint/custom masks should be off limits so that purists can reproduce the winner.” “Mocs must be at least THIS simple to enter so fans without many pieces can build it.” Since the discussions here weigh more than I thought with the site’s powers that be, I want to plant my uncompromising opinion to push back against this. Hard.
NO, reproducibility should NOT be a factor in this contest. At all.
Obviously no one here can control what a voter’s thinking when they vote, but people who mention this idea of reproducibility seem to want either the rules to reflect such limitations for the voter in advance or for the contest to explicitly promote this as a factor for their conscience. This is the most absurd argument I’ve seen in a while. A moc contest is an art contest. We’re not competing to design Lego’s next cost effective set sold on shelves, we’re competing to build the most appealing interpretation of a character that never had one. However complex or simple someone will build their entry, it serves only one purpose - what they think LOOKS GOOD. And what are voters deciding on? Which entry they think LOOKS GOOD. Period. I don’t remember a single contest while G1 was alive that told its contestants, “Now be sure your mocs are simple enough for most fans to build themselves!” How many of you had the necessary pieces at the time of the contest’s winner to build your own Tahtorak? Miserix? I know a couple of Dark Hunters that had more than their fair share of greebling and rare pieces for their time. People raising this point seem to be losing sight of what a moc contest is in the first place.
Now if the accessibility of these designs is so important to you, great. Vote along those criteria. But don’t pretend it must be made everyone else’s criteria as well. Let’s get this very straight, the point of whatever limitations are made by the rules are for contestants to have an agreed upon starting point before the contest, not for the people after the contest. Expecting this competition to promote or enforce such an arbitrary constraint is a fussiness that goes beyond even the previous thread’s discussions. And reading some of those almost gave me an aneurysm.
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Then why are LDD and Stud.io allowed? Sorry, this just seems arbitrary to me. Altering photos is just another means of accomplishing the same thing: representing pieces in colors that do not exist physically.
I was thinking of this Lariska quote specifically, which I think is the original description of her color:
“I don’t see her as being red. You have to remember this is someone who strikes from the shadows a lot – red doesn’t lend itself to hiding in the shadows (ask Robin). I would say more of a dark blue-green.”
Seeing as this is quite and obvious respond to the post I made about this.I checked the entire topic to make sure btw. I must say that my main gripes were never that mocs shouldn’t be complex or must be reproduceable but that certain restrictions should be but on builds to keep the style of bionicle as of now the contest has no such enforcement does it need one no not in everyones opinion.
Did I specifically argue for no nonreprodueable still definately no I voiced my concern about this contest affecting bionicles first and foremost design aesthetic, design language and how too overly complex/intricate mocs clashes with the already established design president set by G1. Again nowhere did I argue that x level complexity shouldn’t be allowed for any character I always argued that x complexity is gonna have a negative effect on the already established design language and astethic of G1.
Good day
//Tarkur
Yeah you’re right, the votes’ meaning is our sticking point. As you say, I read the original proposals as more hypothetical than intended. As a result I understood the community’s yes vote to mean “yes we can hold some kind of contests,” and you understood it to mean “yes we can hold these contests.”
I do want to articulate where my reading came from. As you pointed out, voters read this sentence, which clearly explains your contest ideas.
Voters also read this sentence, which suggests that a yes vote was not a blanket approval of all those contest ideas.
To be clear, not trying to take a dig here. I’m trying to clearly articulate where confusion came from to prevent these kinds of misunderstandings in the future.
All that said, your proposal is a great solution! Holding votes for the next contest would absolutely make sure there is community consensus for each contest before it happens. And if the community gets a say in the next contest, that may even generate more hype. That’s way better than the proposals I had honestly. @Planetperson you wanted polls like this too, what do you think?
Lastly, Marendar. Props to you for looking back through all that old material to count stuff up. Seriously. I was just rolling with what I remembered from the original topic, but obviously my perception was skewed.
I haven’t been talking against Marendar, or any of this really, because I like/dislike certain contests. I’m cool with a Marendar contest. I was concerned because I wasn’t convinced there was community consensus. In terms of freedom, if Greg has a specific vision for Marendar, then I’d want to respect it, but really if the winning entry is too far off the mark he’ll probably just say so. So I’ll have to think about that more. I bet your suggestion of getting a basic description would bring more people onboard.
Seriously, thank you. You’ve been patient with me and thoroughly addressed my concerns at this point. I’m looking forward to the contests!
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No it’s not obviously a response to you in particular, and if that’s not what you argued then I’m not talking to you.
But I’m glad you bring up the complexity issue because that’s an entirely separate nail I wanted to peg. I don’t care specifically who said what but I keep seeing a common theme after reading 100+ comments in here about this great overbearing concern for gatekeeping Bionicle’s aesthetic, however ambiguous that notion is.
“certain restrictions should be put on builds to keep the style of bionicle”
“nowhere did I argue that x level complexity shouldn’t be allowed for any character”
Alright, both of these statements can’t exist together so I’ll assume you’re going for the first. If it really is that much of a concern to you, what hard or practical rule can you set for making mocs look so consistent with G1? The only one I can think of is to ban the use of post-G1 parts, and it looks like ccbs and G2 are already allowed so doors closed on that. What are you going to do, limit the part count? Require using prefab limbs? We already have size guidelines and that’s good enough. I have a simpler idea - why don’t we leave it to voters to decide what looks Bionicle enough to win? I thought that was the entire point of contests. When you’re talking about keeping the G1 aesthetic, you’re not talking for me; maybe I have a different idea of what that is. You’re really not talking for anyone but yourself. And there can’t be limitations imposed based on the slight possibility that something that doesn’t fit your specific vision of G1 wins.
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No… no… no… definately no. I just think that it should look like a bionicle since it is meant to coexist in the same universe and fit in with the already canon apperances of other characters. I’m going back to the Nikila example the drawing looks great by all means but if you placed her as is next to a group of toa sets on a shelf she’ll look very out of place.
Here’s one example of such rule, “Your moc should be able to stand on a shelf together with other G1 one sets without looking to out of place or to the point that it can be mistaken for a regular Action figure.”
The above rule isn’t too much of a restriction and doesn’t exclude G2 or system parts while still making sure that the G1 look comes across an example of the opposite of this would be the Tuyet moc linked below:
Or the Makuta moc linked by me earlier in this topic.
An example of what I mean would be something like this:
I hope you’ll see what I mean with this example.
Please if I need to further explain myself let me know
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While I agree that the aesthetic should at least look like it belongs somewhere in G1, it’s worth mentioning that G1 had a very distinct range of aesthetics within itself.
I wouldn’t necessarily say that’s a rule, because it’s super subjective. You cited Nikila as an example - I personally feel like, other than maybe the trident, Nikila fits the style and tone of G1 just fine.
Look at the Rahi/DH competition winners, and then compare that to stuff like the Piraka Fusion, Surel & Iron Wolves, the Xian Weapons! contest, etc. - all of these are parts of the Bionicle canon and none of them feel massively out-of-place with the artwork we see elsewhere. Sayger’s artwork is obviously part of the G1 aesthetic - it’s the cannon comic art for two whole years - but a bunch of people would likely say “that doesn’t look G1” if someone submitted a similar styled artwork or MOC for the contest.
So I think the best filter for what is/isn’t “G1” enough to be canon, quite simply, is voting. Not a rule. If it looks too much like it belongs on Okoto, people will say so by withholding their votes.
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Going to Toa team uniformity vs non
Idk I believe the mangai and hagah all had uniform armour.
Regardless of whether they were originally from different teams or not, they’re a team now and like
It’s armour. You can replace armour. They very easily could have changed armour so that they all looked uniform.
I highly doubt Makuta would want their hagah teams looking different if they were supposed to act and look like an elite guard. They definitely would have been given new armour so they all matched
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