BIONICLE G1 Canon Contests Discussion & Questions

The problem with this is that ttv did not say “does prime tuyet also use this sword” they said “does prime tuyet also use a sword” which is incredibly open ended.

This is such a blatant false equivalency that it doesn’t even warrant response :grinning:

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Did not think of this maybe the Mata and subsequentially stars builds shouldn’t be allowed then

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Lol I thought I have to make a new topic to enter

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eh, you could go either way with that and say that Artakha built the Toa Mata based on existing Toa with those builds. It was just kind of a funny little thing I was thinking of, so I don’t think we should mandate anything with it

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I understand the spirit of this post and what you’re trying to get at, creative freedom and all that. To address the points you raise in your post specifically, even if Greg never depicted her using her sword in the story, we’re going by precedent. I could be mistaken, and feel free if I am, but I don’t believe Artakha was ever depicted wielding his hammer in story, yet because Greg dictated that he took a hammer from his forge to Metru Nui, we included the hammer in the contest parameters. As such, even if there’s no singular moment where MU Tuyet uses a sword, contest precedence follows that the sword be mandated in her design if Greg says that’s her weapon of choice. You’re right that Greg is not a mind reader, but I feel the context is clear; the same sword Tuyet used in Dark Mirror is the one she uses in the Prime Universe. It’s my belief that is the intention Greg has, and there’s never been any reason to assume otherwise as he has never made any meaningful distinction between the two, nor did he when we recently asked. It’s a very common sense situation to me, and not a hard scenario to grasp. It can even be reasonably inferred independent of any mind reading capabilities!

Issues like these are what have, in the past, led to rules that were either too strict or too unpopular; in peoples’ efforts to try to second-guess or find workarounds to things that were created with a very specific “spirit of the law” or intention in mind, a more firm set of guidelines had to be employed in certain instances to stop people from trying to poke a million loopholes in things that either were very obvious or should have reasonably spoke for themselves. I feel that this is one of those instances; Greg did not wax poetic in a large essay about the differences between Tuyet’s swords, and when asked about it, he gave a very simple, easily understood answer. I would contest that the sole cause of any perceived ambiguity or disagreement with this solely comes from people who believe it shouldn’t be mandated, rather than because they legitimately think that Greg believes there’s a meaningful difference in sword types between the two versions.

To that end, I’ll admit, because of the wording of the initial email (my bad, btw!), there is clearly reasonable doubt. Just because we feel like the situation speaks for itself, clearly some don’t agree. While the popular choice may be to let that reasonable doubt run free and drop the restriction, I think that putting to bed this question once and for all would do the most good towards ending this debate since people clearly feel very strongly about it. Given the intensity, I don’t think we can just back off the issue totally and drop the discussion, so I do think it merits asking Greg again with a more specific set of wording.

However, like we talked about on Nak & Jay, after the reaction to us emailing Greg about the weapons for Orde, Chiara, and Zaria, we feel uncomfortable about doing so again without letting people know first because of the large amount of vitriol we received. That being the case, here’s our proposed clarification email to Greg:

"Hey Mr. Farshtey,

After our last email, there’s been some debate in the fandom about the exact wording we used when asking about Tuyet’s sword, as our question merely asked if she had “a sword” at all, rather than the specific, barbed broadsword that Dark Mirror Tuyet has been stated to use.

Our intent was to ask whether both versions of Tuyet wielded the exact same weapon, to determine whether or not it should be included in any MoC or artwork portrayals of her. As such, we’re sending this as a clarifying email to clear up any lingering doubts.

It’s my understanding that the following description (based on prior statements you have made over the years) is an accurate and canon description of the sword that Dark Mirror Tuyet wielded: “A Barbed Broadsword, being a sword with curved barbs coming out of the sides, so that when you pull it out you do more damage.”

Does Prime Universe Tuyet wield a barbed broadsword, with curved barbs coming out of the sides, just as Dark Mirror Tuyet does?

Further, as some individuals were debating whether a barb in BIONICLE would function as a barb in our world, we would like to clarify whether or not the tips of the barbs point toward the hilt.

Apologies for the pedantic questioning, because of our prior wording, this is being hotly contested and merits clarifying before the contest begins so that everyone has a clear understanding as what the requirements for the contest will be."

Keep in mind, there’s a very good chance Greg actually doesnt answer this email. History has shown that the last time we gave him an email flooded with minutiae that we were pressured to ask by others, he didn’t end up replying (cue the “Well, he didn’t reply. So… what do we do?” meme). Still, I’m down to ask (more specifically this time!) so we can put this conversation to bed and move on to bigger fish. Please give feedback as to whether this is properly worded or not. :pray:

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Hey sorry to swoop in and ask before you guys, I didn’t know you were going to ask. Should I take down the ask?

Edit: Contest should be contests

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That seems like good phrasing.

If you’re concerned about him not replying about specific details, perhaps you could ask the questions separately. First, just get clarification that the swords are the same; I feel like he’s more likely to answer that one on its own, since it’s only clarification, rather than specification. Then you can ask about the specifics afterwards.

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Nah, it’s not a big deal. No harm in having multiple venues up for the question, you can leave it up. Funny timing tho! :rofl:

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Sure was
Let’s just hope that twice the questions leads to double the chance for an answer.

On a more morbid note, I’ve been thinking of something and have to ask. What happens if Greg dies/when Greg dies? In terms of canonization and contests I mean, since mourning is the first thing to happen.

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That would be a horrible tragedy and would matter astronomically more than whatever nerdy niche interest sphere we operate in. To answer your question, the contests would cease full stop. But the contests would not even rank in my mind if anything were to happen to Greg, as ultimately a loss of life would be waaaaaaaay more significant for fans of his work and fans of BIONICLE as a whole. The tragedy would supersede anything and everything else.

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how old is Greg again?

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According to wikipedia he should be 56

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Let’s please not go down this road and make this an actual conversation. From everything we know, Greg is in good health. I only answered to reinforce that our contests don’t matter in the grand scheme of things, especially not in the same sentence as a human life. We can leave it at that. :pray:

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yeah I agree

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I think this is really unnecessary.

bro, Calm down plz
It is very rude to compare a contest for children’s toys with someone’s life.

As far as I know, he is 56

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I think there’s a danger in wording these questions this way because I feel like, if you ask Greg about something like this, he’ll give it the “sure,” since that’s how he seemed to handle a lot of these types of questions (e.g. “Does Naho have a Huna and a warhammer?”).

I think better diction would be something that presents an “X or Y” dynamic and lets Greg choose not to answer. So, something like this:

That’s a little verbose, but what I’m really getting at is that the email shouldn’t sound like you’re requesting a specific answer or permission for something to be canonized, because I think a lot of the times he just said “yeah sure whatevs bro” to a question was because he didn’t want to let down the person asking.

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I agree that it would be one of the worst days ever if Greg died, as he’s brought so much joy and happiness to my life and to people on and off of this board. I didn’t mean for the question to come as disrespectful towards the loss of life and hope we have Greg around for a long time.
I apologize for bringing it up.

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I understand the spirit of this post and what you’re trying to get at, consistency and compliance with existing canon and all that. But respectfully, any of our beliefs are irrelevant. You may believe that Greg meant this or that and I may believe that even with my proposed mandate rollback, a Tuyet wielding a Barbed Broadsword would (and should) win, but ultimately, neither of those has any precedence in canon.

You yourself admit that the likelihood of Greg responding is slim. You yourself admit you wish to avoid a losing situation that makes your rulings unpopular or strict or loophole-ridden. My proposal, which as far as I am aware, you are wholly agreeing with up until you mention Greg’s lack of psychic powers, would free you of all of that, and it would free the creators and voters of the community to exercise their skills freely, while still following canon. As I and many others have said, this would still likely result in a Barbed Broadsword winning, and that’s a fine thing!

I have not spent the majority of my waking hours today researching and formulating my argument because I want to win some sort of ‘argument’. I spent this time coming up with this option so that the entire community can win.

Yes, even you, whomever may be reading this right now.

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I think the proposed mail sounds fine.

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Yup, our feelings aren’t irrefutable facts, I’m with you there. Ultimately, though, I don’t feel the solution is to walk back the mandate. You’ve rightfully questioned my word choice in the first email and pointed out that it isn’t adequate to the question at hand. I’ve presented you with a second email that should hopefully be much more specific and get to the bottom of things. What do you think about it?

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