Ok then yeah, lego would have just used the aquatic volitak. I mean, they did use it for mazeka.
EDIT: Bet you havn’t seen this many people replying at once in a while.
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Purely out of curiosity, is BS01 down?
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Regardless of one’s stance, it’s apparent that Nidhiki is supposed to wear… a green Volitak shaped Volitak. No ifs nor buts about that, especially since Greg has clarified it a few times.
Let’s be real. Greg is going to accept whatever wins.
Given my lack of interest in a Nidhiki contest in 2021 or 2022 if there’s more delays, I’m pretty sure TTV is going to require people to use a Volitak and encourage people to paint it green. If the Volitak on the winning moc happens to be painted green, then there’s no need for an art contest. Hopefully we get something that’s canon compliant at the end of the day. Since canon is already filled with contradictions and I don’t really care about the mask color, it’ll just be one more drop at worst.
inb4 “ew painted parts even though they’re canon compliant”
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It appears so yes.
A simple answer is more acceptable than a lengthy one. Rather than leave slight wiggle room and an answer that wildly changes depending on who’s reading it, it’s easier for Greg to say “that’s the Volitak, yep, sure is” than explain every nuance of the mask especially when he had no hand in designing it.
I feel like crafting a variation of the Volitak and seeing what he thinks is an acceptable course of action. But, that’s just me.
Unless, of course, it was the first Volitak?
This is another can of worms I’m cracking open and I feel like I will regret it
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Exactly. Now, does it make sense that Nuparu’s Volitak is Volitak-shaped?
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Oh no, that’s not good.
This is bad
It could be down for a while
or forever
Please don’t be like Moc pages and shut down
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Alright wacky theory time, bear with me.
Nidhiki’s Volitak and all that came before are the true Volitak shape. But the OoMN made a special Volitak with attachments and the like for specific situations where it was necessary, and the Mask of Life through shenanigans and wacky misadventures was brought into contact with that Volitak, and assumed that’s simply what a Volitak looked like.
The Mask must have known what the Volitak looked like in order to make one that just happened to be exactly the same as every other Volitak out there, no?
Feel free to crucify me for this theory it’s dumb
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BS01 won’t be down for long, don’t worry. 
I think Greg has made it abundantly clear that, regardless of if Nuparu’s Volitak is the only Volitak shape there is, Nidhiki and Nuparu have the same Volitak shape.
Greg did say the Order did not modify Mazeka’s Volitak.
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Aye, Mazeka’s Volitak. Which, if I recall, was in his possession at some unknown time in the past, possibly after this Volitak design became standardized.
What a time for BS01 to be down
Which you have already stated, and I have already counter stated: It’s most likely he said that in case they ever made a Nidhiki set, so they wouldn’t have to make a new mold without having the nitpickers in uproar.
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This is actually untrue - at best, we gave people one day to fix their entries if they were identified as problematic upon closing of the entry period. A delay on our part caused the polls to take longer to go up than initially intended and that, in turn, caused the issue with Blue’s entry where it was missed on the first round of entry vetting.
Let me be abundantly clear about this: People were not given days to fix their entries, nor have they ever been.
In terms of instituting a revision period, it’s something I’ve suggested to the team but for good reason we are hesitant to add it in. Mainly, how is adding a week-long revision period any different than extending the contest entry period by a week, outside of “new people won’t be allowed in.” This art contest, shockingly, only had between 3-5 of entries actually require any modification to not be DQ’d, and the vast majority of them were posted well before the entry period ended (unlike in the MoC contest, where we had a slew of entries in the 11th hour and as little as 15 minutes before close).
We are going to be looking into ways to streamline the qualification process for sure, and trying to make sure that if necessary feedback for entries that require fixing comes sooner than later (preferably within hours of posting) but that does not mean that we will be drawing out this process even longer just to give a chance at fixing entries that violate the rules in a way that DQ’s them.
At the end of the day the entry periods for these contests run weeks, not days, and the rulesets are clearly displayed. The sooner you post your entry, the sooner you’ll hear back on whether it breaks a rule, and if you’re worried that you might be DQ’d before you’ve entered you can always ask us.
Unfortunately while the situation with Blue was tragic and a failing entirely on part of myself and the rest of the Admin Team, it’s also one entry out of hundreds so far entered in these contests. We will do what we can to avoid ever having that happen again, but we also won’t go out of our way to babysit entrants.
At the end of the day, it is our responsibility to administer these contests in an effective way that allows as many people as possible to enter and enjoy. It is not our responsibility to make sure your entry follows the rules. The fact that we have done so up to this point is nothing more than a courtesy.
As I said, we will be endeavoring to make sure that Blue’s situation never happens again, but I urge anyone considering entering future contests to try and ensure that their entry follows the rules to the letter, and that if they are concerned about it they reach out to us directly so we can let them know of any issues before the entry period closes.
If you think Greg said anything about canon to save Lego money… I dunno what to tell you mate. If he said Nidhiki’s Volitak is identical to Nuparu’s/Mazeka’s just without the tubes, then it’s identical to the set-form Volitak, just without the tubes. Regardless of why he said it, what he said is the standard for Canon.
Also, I point you to the “Toa Dume and Toa Nidhiki” sets that became the Hagah. Set Designers made sets, then the Story team made them fit the story, not the other way around. If Lego HAD made a Nidhiki set with a different mask, canon would have been retconned, simple as that.
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Spot on. Honestly, I hate to contribute to this discussion, but I think people are taking these contests WAY too personally. The arguments against these contests either focus on the fact that it will “ruin” people headcanons, or “destroy” the creative side of the community, or “cause too much strife” on the message boards.
The truth is, the contests won’t “destroy” your headcanon, YOU WILL. It’s headcanon for a reason, if a piece of artwork labeled as “canon” (that is to say, what Greg thinks a character looks like) ruins your own imagination, that’s a personal issue.
The truth is, the canon contests won’t “destroy” the creative side of the community, as many people have said, it has been quite the opposite. Honestly, people are acting like creating MOCs for faceless characters has been the backbone for the community, when it’s been a very small part up until now. If anything, the creativity for these characters will EXPLODE now that they have canon appearances, since guess what’s been a much bigger part of the community then mocs for faceless characters? REVAMPS. And judging by the salt out there, there is a lot of revamping to be done.
“this will cause too much strife in the community” sorry, but this one is kinda a self fulfilling prophecy. I think that most of the people arguing for this are, well, the ones causing strife in the community, and even then, I think that these contests are more than worth it.
Pros:
-Hundreds of amazing Mocs and artwork are created
-thousands of posts not just here but across social media are made filled with genuinely good discussion about these contests / winners
- hundreds of people get their childhood dream fulfilled of entering a canonization contest.
-Countless more get their childhood dreams fulfilled of having canon depictions of their favorite characters
- Bionicle G1 literally gets kept alive through new additions to the mythos
Cons
-
like twenty people complain on TTV boards that their- I mean “other peoples” headcanons will be “ruined” (already talked about that)
-
People think that said “strife” is enough to cancel out all of the previously mentioned pros.
-
Some people’s Mocs don’t win and become canon (which if there were no contests to begin with… wouldn’t help anything)
Another thing I am seeing is disagreement over the exact entry requirements being “strife” which… I mean, if people disagreeing with other people’s exact opinions is “strife” I guess so. Really, I think that respectfully debating over a characters exact eye color is perfectly valid discussion to have for something like this. If this is enough to genuinely consider the contests as “harmful” for the community I really don’t know what to tell ya.
Anyways, all things considered I think that people are really overreacting to this all. I know this post will do nothing to quell people, but I just thought I’d go about making it anyways. Please don’t make Ejay’s, Meso’s or Kini’s lives h*ck over your own personal disappointments,
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Not gonna adress everything in detail because I’m sure I did it twice or thrice in this topic already. Including why we shouldn’t have these contests. Also brought it up in the initial poll. And potentially also in the poll determining the order of contests. If you want my answer, search for it.
I’m honestly just kinda tired of all this back and forth discussion at this point. And I’m not even a Mod who has to keep track of it all.
My stance still is that the community should also get the chance to stop the contests at any point in between contests, which is why I felt like speaking up again when that was postponed again.
Well, there would be a lot less interest, but not necessarily as many people disagreeing with them.
And that’s all fine. That is not canon-compliant, though. It will always be a revamp or whatever, and not canon. Of course with Toa and the likes the difference might at times be minuscle. A Toa’s shape is somewhat defined and widely agreed on. That changes for characters like Artakha, Lariska, the Golden Skinned Being and Marendar. Let’s take any Artakha MOC that didn’t win for example - who’s still gonna recognize most of those as Artakha once canon Artakha is widely known? And who’s gonna seriously view them as alternatives? That’s a loss of canon-compliant creativity here. At the start of the contest, all of those were Artakha. Now only one is.
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This can be fixed by just sending him the entry along with a reminder of his previous quotes.
Either he will abide by his original quotes and deny the entry, or he will intentionally retcon his original statement. The “first quote is canon” rule only applies to unintentional contradictions; if he intentionally contradicts/retcons an older statement, then the newer statement is canon.
I think the better thing to do is to get a statement from him on this before the contest even begins. Then everyone knows what he will and will not accept before making their entries.
(Or we can just set up the rules based on existing canon and disallow any entries that don’t use the existing Volitak)
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Imma be real with you boss, 99% likelihood this is what we do. Canon is established - hunting for a contradiction or creating one ourselves just makes things less clear and more difficult.
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If we’re going to have an art contest anyway, we could go the route of having that be a rule for the art contest, not the MOC contest. If painted parts will mean there need be an art contest, then there’s no way around there being an art contest, which means the Volitak used or its color on the MOC doesn’t really end up mattering. (That way people aren’t required to paint a part.)
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It’s a consistently unpopular opinion, especially now that the second contest has gone extremely well in comparison to the first and it’s likely going to get a good deal better.
Regardless, it’s yours to have, yours to reiterate every time a contest has ended, and yours to be repeatedly shot down by staff until they decide to do it because they reached the point at which they want to.
Yes, by logic of there being less people overall, there would be less naysayers.
The same amount of people who did before the contest ended, if not more.
Unlike in past contests conducted by LEGO, where entries that failed to meet the qualifications were simply tossed, these are now on the internet to stay - they will never be forgotten and those who wish to will add them to their portfolio to parade and say “I entered the Artakha contest, this one was mine”.
That wasn’t physically possible a decade ago, or at least not to the extent and ease that it is now. And I can promise you most if not all of the big-name builders who took part in this contest absolutely will be doing that.
No, none of them will truly be Artakha, because none of them ever were. But none of them were before the contest, either.
No.
At the start of the contest, there was no Artakha, only attempts to create him. At the end of the contest, Artakha has been defined.
If this crushes your preestablished and completely unverifiable idea of what Artakha looks like, tough. This logic against contests can be used against asking Greg any questions at all lest he say something which shatters preconceived notions and utterly destroys someone’s AU(which, for the record, in the short time he’s been on TTV he has done exactly that).
Sorry, but no. I have a feeling you’ll bring it up again after the next contest anyway, so I’ll just wait till then.
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That seems like a good idea.
None of the MOC contests so far have required modification of parts, and I don’t think any of them ever should.
Having an Art Contest because the MOC mask isn’t canon is not a new concept; that’s the way every contest has been so far.
So it doesn’t seem unrealistic to allow MOCs to have a non-green Volitak and then change it in the Art.
Thank you for the evidence. I will agree to what you have said. If this is the case, the only thing I could see in the Nidhiki contest that would have a custom part would have to be the air scythe (though there are probably 1000 ways to go about that without using custom parts). Also, of course the Volitak would need to be painted green.
With all of this, I think it is safe to say that Nidhiki would only require a MOCing portion. An Art portion would be unnecessary in this case and perhaps this can help to speed the contest quicker for Nidhiki.
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