They’ve also given a pretty clear criteria that to be in the contest, the character has to be unknown but not have that unknown-ness be a part of their character i;e no Tren Krom because his mysterious look is a part of his character but yes to the Hagah as they were just unknown because no design was made. It wasn’t just a random set TTV unilaterally decided upon.
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The fact that they had criteria that they created to follow, which they only revealed after revealing the list, doesn’t change the fact that they chose the list with no community input.
Also the rule you just gave is the only one that hasn’t been broken already.
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It may sound a bit selfish but…
The fact that this contest is not just an MOC contest, but a Canon contest means a lot, whether negative or positive.
To be honest, if the last contests were just informal, I don’t think they would have received this much response.
It’s a great honor and big deal to leave our mark on content that’s already been 10 years.
More selfishly, it can be a matter of pride that someone’s head canon pushed someone else’s head canon.
That’s why people are more enthusiastic, trying harder, thinking, and discussing a lot.
This is the advantage of allowing fandom around the world to focus because this contest is a Canon contest. And many people follow result. Look at Bricklink, numerous gunmetal parts and blue robo-rider head, black metru torso are less in stock than before.lol
I think this is a positive indicator. It seems that many people have begun to pay attention to bionicle again through this contest
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Very much agree with you, @ajtazt .
If the canon aspect were to be removed from these contests, this would instantly stop all the arguing, because the arguing is just about what is canonically correct.
And regarding the counterarguments of “but if it’s not canon, less people will participate” - yes, absolutely. But you know who will still participate? Those people who are actually interested in and enjoy this kind of thing.
And if quality content is created, that will inspire others to use it. People are inspired by Bionicle Chicken’s art to model their MOCs after. And the unmutated forms of the Barraki species by RSG are also popular and get replicated in MOC form. None of that is canon, because it doesn’t need to be. All something being canon does is stomp other people’s differing ideas into the ground as “not correct”. Who needs that? Who wants that?
If you’re curious how a given character might look, google them and you’ll surely find something you agree with.
This is also an incrasingly prevalent problem I see. I think the Hagah really made it apparent. An option that should really be considered in addition to outright cancellation polls is to have the community vote on which individual contests they actually want and which they don’t. TTV deciding this list is, well, the opposite of a contest which is, in the words of Greg, based on “if the community is fine with it”.
And speaking of community involvement - counting art and MOC contests seperate, we so far had five contests. And actually only two (Helryx MOC and Artakha MOC) of those had a participation higher than in the initial poll on whether to have contests at all.
I thus have my doubts whether the contests are actually founded on community support anymore. That should be reevaluated in some way.
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Alright time to through my hat in the ring. This will be mostly random thoughts than a linear convo.
Which is the point. If you’re going to have a canon contest your gonna have arguments over canon just as if it were a moc contest but only Metru builds were allowed people would argue over that. You can’t have one without the other.
This may be me misinterpreting this but this really comes off as you saying those who do/did enjoy the canon contests are fake and kinda invalidates our opinions and that’s not cool.
And you’ll notice that the unmutated Barkaki aren’t on the character list for the canon contest.
Well, this is just untrue. It’s canon that Tahu wears a Hau and I don’t see that being an issue with anyone or that Arthaka wears the mask of creation again no one seems to have an issue with that. and I could go on, As for it supposedly “stomping others ideas into the ground” again not entirely true. Some people will have their ideas ruined but some will also adapt their ideas to the canon and for those whose ideas are ruined well that’s kinda on them for being unwilling to not adhere to canon esp if it annoys or angers them. And again you’re calling those who wanted and supported the contest fake or acting as they don’t exist and I have to ask why? “Who wants that?” probably the countless people who have voted in support of, entred, and voted in the contest?
Ohh the cancelation polls. Always the cancelation polls They won’t come any earlier than Lariska and time and time again have shown that those who don’t want these contests are a minority at the moment.
This is just a bad idea. This is the same community that got Hoseryx to number 2. along with this meaning most likely characters like the Baraki or Tren Krom or the Gold Skinned Being getting canon looks even if they either don’t need one or it would actively hurt things and we’d come full circle and end up here arguing about how your characters are getting canonized.
Well, you’ve counterargued your own argument. Greg was asked by both TTV and the community if he’s fine with another contest and he said yes. And thus TTV put out a vote for if people wanted the contests to happen and people said yes thus “if the community is fine with it”. they are. As for TTV deciding the list well, they host the contest they get to do whatever they want technically and even then I’m pretty sure we know that they talked to Greg and high ranking community members when deciding the list.
Okay so going by your numbers if I am to understand them correctly it looks like the votes are on average around the same amount as those who have voted for the contests in the first place. Now granted the exception to this is the Hagah but that’s likely in part due to the very large time gaps between each step and also possibly due to the Hagah not being as cared for characters compared to Helryx and Artahka.
And again it will happen just after Lariska. You just have to wait till then and I’m sure you can blot out this contest till then. (Assuming it isn’t till October of 2023 when Lariska ends lol)
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What I’m trying to express is that those who enjoy the canon contests would also enjoy non-canon contests, while those who do not would not have to care because it wouldn’t be canon.
There are quite some people who are only voting/entering in hopes to make a difference against stuff like Hoseryx. Because they care about canon, but would rather not be dictated appearances for characters. So what can they do at present? Just vote for and enter entries as the lesser evil, because TTV refuses to give them a say in the contests as a whole.
The “Who wants that” here is targeted at individual considerations. It is fair that some people want canon contests, but it feels like many do not consider what this means for others who do not want them. I do not accuse anyone of deliberately wanting to stomp other’s ideas, but in effect this is an undeniable result of the canon contests.
So I’m asking what is better? Living with something that was entirely fine for years, or satisfying some people’s curiosity over destroying other’s ideas? It is absolutely valid to be interested in appearances for characters, but it is just as valid to want one’s creations to remain canon compliant.
Therefore, wouldn’t a non-canon contest be the best of both worlds? One side gets inspiration to pick their favored depiction from, the other side retains their freedom.
The crucial element here is time.
A decade or more has gone by since the introduction of any characters, a decade people used to create and get attached to their own concepts built on the basis that canon provides. Were Bionicle still running, this might be a different story, as everyone would know it’s in a fluid state. But the state of things has been static in most aspects for ten years.
Shown where? In the initial poll before the contests where people had no experience with how they’d go yet?
In Hoseryx becoming second place? I doubt anyone who cares about canon voted for Hoseryx. And I know for a fact (I’ve been one of them) that those who seriously cared about canon yet did not want the contests didn’t vote for Hoseryx.
Without a proper assessment, there is no saying how many people are for or against the contests at this point. This chat here gives an etirely skewed picture of things, as many people (from both sides, of course) are not interested in all the drama, or just not active on the boards because they only have accounts for voting. Since this is TTV, and the contests are run by TTV, however, it is normal that the active people here are mostly in favor of TTV and what they are doing. People who are not will mostly not be active on these message boards.
I’m unsure why you’d compare it that way? Why would only pro-contest people vote? The main participants in the contest are those who want the contests and those who care about canon. Both can be, but doesn’t have to be and often enough isn’t the same.
All that can be definitely said is that general interest is at an all-times low at current, and that I feel shows that a reevaluation of the contests is necessary.
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Same. I really want the contests to continue but there’s a few vocal people who incessantly whine about wanting them to end.
It can be argued that that was mostly due to Kini Hawkeye managing it.
EDIT: On this last point, I do not want to understate that I sympathize with Eljay greatly. People just have it out for him for some reason, and that’s gotta be hard when you’re trying to manage a community event. On the other hand, though, both Helryx and the Hagah contest have been severely mismanaged, and I do think it is about time Eljay invited some people to help moderate and create rulesets. We need to be able to get a response about points of contention without having to start a riot. That includes both when rules are not enforced, and when revelations in Greg quotes come to light.
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I’m gonna be honest, I’m hardly interested in those at all in the same way because they ultimately mean nothing. The creativity is all neat but the lack of stakes isnt as interesting.
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I’ll admit I’m only engaging with them because they’re canon, but also not in a positive way.
Like, I care about the canon (albeit disliking and freely dropping some elements), and I’d rather try to stop something I don’t like becoming canon than just sit around and gripe about it. I’ll gripe too, but if I have the ability to influence that, I’d be a fool to not take it.
So far I’ve gotten one result I like, one I don’t, and one to be determined. The models range from Meh to Great, but I must admit that while the art is good, I hate the trends with the colours. Going with the Krana-Kal colours is neat from a visual perspective but it seems like the artists have gone out of their way to choose a set of colours that are borderline impossible to actually build with.
“Have fun painting all your parts metallic green, nerds!”
Then again, I’m the guy who thinks the Toa Hagah in general were a terrible idea on Lego’s part, and those sets were much better as Dume and Nidhiki.
(Also seriously why is Tuyet, a Toa who is on the same team as a Metru build, and has thus been commonly depicted as a Metru build, directly after not only another Toa contest, but a mandatory pure Metru build contest for four characters?)
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Well she won’t be mandated.
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Doesn’t change the fact that the Mangai have been A) common subject matter for MOCs for a very long time, and B) most commonly depicted as Metru builds in both MOCs and art in 90% of those cases. Even in situations where they aren’t full Metru builds, they’re often built specifically to evoke said builds.
It brings with it a chance that the outcome of the Tuyet contest will be influenced by everyone being sick to death of Metru builds after the Hagah.
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unfortunately my tuyet moc is a metru build
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Don’t let Zork hear you say that.
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FROM KARZANHI I EMERGE!!!/s and i’m fine with metru tuyets, so long as the entries aren’t all metru tuyets
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oh I’m sure that’s not going to happen after the hagah contest
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I sense that you have a bit too much faith in the community lol
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well almost everyone will want to build gaaki so the metru torsos in blue will become scarce, forcing people to either-3d print new ones or do something custom. maybe. hopefully.
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Both of the examples you give here were new characters. No one had any ideas in their head of what Lurker looked like before the DH contest because he didn’t exist yet. No one had an image of what the Turaga looked like before 01 because Bionicle didn’t exist yet.
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Me. I want to have a single defined appearance which I can refer to as canon for as many characters as possible.
Why? How could you have a “meme entry” when the only options are from a finite list of characters who fit the criteria for these contests?
This is a really bad way to put it; that kind of mentality is exactly what people have been saying is a big issue with these contests. I’m not saying that TTV actually does have that mentality, but they definitely shouldn’t.
Not really; knowing what other fans think a character looks like doesn’t tell me what they actually look like.
I’m not sure if there really can be a “best of both worlds” here; one side wants there to be a single defined appearance for these characters, while the other side wants that to not happen.
I completely understand why you wouldn’t want the contests to continue, and I think you make some great arguments. However, there’s no objectively right answer here; the arguments from both sides are more or less purely opinion-based, and my personal opinion remains that I want the contests to continue.
At this point, I’m no longer trying to change your mind, or anyone else’s, about the contests; again, I think you make some great points about why you wouldn’t want them to continue. Any arguments I put forward are more for the purpose of supporting the contests in general, rather than trying to change anyone’s mind.
This is also not determined yet; that vote has yet to happen. I don’t see how you can use “I don’t like some of the entries” as proof that the contests are bad.
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(This is going to sound ruder then I intend) If you go back to my origional post you’ll notice I listed some examples of meme-y/harmful characters who could win. Characters like Tren Krom, TGSK, unmutated characters (Baraki, Paraka, OG Hydraxon), mutated Brutahka etc these imo are all characters where having a canon look for them is either pointless or would actively hurt them but these would probably win because people want a canon look for them.