First off, no one found that quote, or remembered it, until AFTER the contest was over and Greg already APPROVED the winner. This wasn’t “people went against what Greg said because of what they wanted”.
Secondly, the question that was asked was: “is Helryx light blue or Dark Blue?” Could not be more black and white, and we could not have gotten a more grey area with the Moc (which isn’t even canon). So no, the winning MOC doesn’t violate Greg’s answer.
Not exactly. Asking for specifics on a character’s color is not the same as asking what Greg meant by a color he already gave. Teal Lariska was already canon, Greg just clarified that that was specifically what he meant.
So long as I’m pointing things out: Greg was asked about Nid’s colors in 2005, WAY before the Volitak was made.
Just thought I’d chime in with my meme Lariska. Black Metru torso, Kualus armor, and head designed after the travesty they inflicted on Roodaka in Birth of the Rahaga. Enjoy!
These things are cyclical, don’t cha know? In not too long from now, things will either naturally die off or the thread will be closed for a couple days. Subsequently things will be quiet for a bit, then someone will meme, followed by someone asking when the voting is coming, ad nauseum
Because it was literal children asking questions to score points on some fan wiki.
Here’s a novel concept that no one in this community will listen to: Greg Answers don’t mean jack if they didn’t appear in text itself. To elaborate, any answer he ever gave on some fansite falls within the realm of Authorial Intent, and therefore, while informative of what he was thinking of at a given point, doesn’t actually matter to the text/media/franchise itself since it never appeared in any of those three mediums.
God, I really wasn’t going to get involved, but this hit a stupid soft spot
I guess my bigger issue with it is this: why does it matter?
Even if we assume that a set designer had a secret agenda to make a non-mutated form of Nidhiki (despite the set designers being notorious for not caring about the story), why should we expect Greg to know about and/or follow that?
This was specified in 2005, two years before the Volitak was released in silver.
I understand why you might not like Greg specifying random details, but that’s not really what happened here; it’s not like Greg added or removed any information, he just clarified what he originally meant; making a blue and green Lariska would be a misinterpretation of canon, not “staying within” canon.
This… isn’t true. Greg Quotes have been canon for the last 20 or so years.
I think you could have a point about how some quotes probably shouldn’t be taken as canon, where Greg starts his answer with something like “I’ve always thought…”, but that’s not the case for the quotes in question, or most of the quotes.
Yeah, I said it. Sure, there’s some things an author might say they intended to be left up to interpretation, and give their own, but where do people get the idea that you can just disregard ANYTHING that an author said about their own works unless it appeared in a published book?
Greg has intentionally left things to interpretation. When he gives answers, though, he intends it to be THE definitive answer, not this “Authorial Intent”.
and as @TheJerminator points out, this stuff has been considered 100% canon for years now. Authorial Intent has never applied to Bionicle (and never should be)
Robin Hood, King Arthur, several pantheons, superheroes…Not saying a more singular version isn’t preferable these days, just the idea that a collective version can’t become a common ground with many consistent elements is easily disproven.
Not that a singular version exists anymore these days. With people constantly stating their own subjective interpretations of characters. Same ones who will ignore the canon and change it to suit them when they get a professional position for it. It’s already a problem with almost every major franchise these days.
You proposed that perhaps TTV didn’t do it for clout since they had the poll first rather than just starting a contest. The argument is that they would have, if Greg didn’t have that requirement.
If you’re looking for my real opinion on the matter, I don’t believe they were doing it for clout. I think they panicked when they saw the opportunity and jumped the gun. Rushed in with some good intentions and too many ideals.
Though what should they have done? Nothing. Let it rest. Let the community learn of the answer on their own, spread it around, create their own poll, and develop a plan. Then, if they decided to host it here, or just wanted figureheads like TTV to help out, wait until that invitation.
Would there still be arguments? Tons. Would the canon contests be considered TTV’s contests, would TTV still receive a lot of flak for it? Probably. It will be impossible to eliminate bad mouthing them entirely, since it resulted from their boards. But by letting the community grow it on their own volition first, rather than instigating it, it would be seen more as a community thing.
I just speak very confidently and with authority.
I know it isn’t for me, but I think it fits here better. I have stated my problem with these contests, and not just others’ viewpoint on it, before a couple times. And it is simply that I find too much time has passed, the spirit is gone. This community and its mindset has change greatly since 2010, too far to really capture the spirit of those creations from 2004 until the end.
Without dedication, most will not be able to capture what we would have received if these contests were held back in 09, '10, '11, or even '12. Style, building techniques, what’s trying to be accomplished…all of it.
So while these still run and force my hand, I shall not vote for what I want or looks the best. I vote for what would best fit the spirit of the time, what we would have most accurately received as the winner from that time. Will that mean it’s also the most accurate to canon? Maybe, perhaps a higher likelihood, but no certainty.
Honestly, I’m shocked I’ve not seen anyone give their Nidhiki MOCs or artwork a Grim Reaper-type vibe (mainly through a big black cloak).
By what metric? What makes it “canon” other than that it came from one guy on a story team of several, and that they’re religiously added to unaffiliated fan wikis?
By the very metric that it didn’t appear in published work. I’m not saying that it can’t be informative, because it is, but I am saying that maybe people shouldn’t put his answers on as high a pedestal that they do.
It’s simply one viewpoint that I’m broaching.
Yes, until he forgets what answer he gave, and then someone, I’ll generously say accidentally, asks the same question and gets a very different answer. And then communities come together and arbitrarily decide upon a way of mediating these discrepancies because they simply can’t let things be, there has to be THE ANSWER.
To give a nitpicky example because it’s the only I can think of at the moment: All of Jaller Inika’s media appearances depict him with a single sword. Comics, books, promotional imagery, all of it. Yet, because Greg made a typo in the first few pages of a book in 2007, mere paragraphs before he’s about to be permanently transformed anyways, and at least two people subsequently asked him about that typo, Jaller Inika “canonically” has two swords now. That’s patently ridiculous, not least of all because in response to the first person who asked him about it, he admitted it was only a typo. It was only when he answered the second question about it that he gave the “two swords” answer. Wouldn’t it simply be less convoluted to say Greg made a mistake on move on with it?
I suppose at the end of the day, I’m just a little tilted at the Bionicle fandom’s need to eliminate any and all ambiguity, room for interpretation, and opportunities for creativity. The latter is especially egregious considering it’s a Lego toy, the parent fandom for the entire series is quite literally built on imagination and creativity.
But not Bionicle. In Bionicle-town, any speculation is immediately met with “Um, ackchully, I’ve found seventeen posts from a defunct forum that went offline six years ago that say you’re wrong”. It’s not enough to come up with something cool, original, and fitting, it’s got to be right, enshrined as such by a writer that cares a fraction of the amount that we do.
It’s like a fanbase made entirely of Redditors.
I maintain that Bionicle is more enjoyable, of higher quality, and more internally consistent if you simply read the books, comics, and serials (probably skip the 2010 ones and just try to ignore GSB), play the MNOGs, watch the movies and Templar animations, and never touch a single forum post. Use BS01 for character appearances that aren’t in the visual media, maybe, use online sources for the correct watch/read order, definitely. But that’s it. Nothing else needed.
Then you don’t get any “Actually this part of X book is non-canon”, no “The Movies/Books and Sets are different universes”, no “Actually MU beings don’t have fingers, please ignore the examples of almost every single species having at least one example of fingers.”
We were really darn lucky to get a series with such rich lore but still enough gaps and ambiguity to truly go wild with it, and it’s more than a little sad that the fandom ever since then has absolutely dedicated to closing all of those gaps, not with actual content, but with social media posts.
It’s mainly the fact that Greg was given the authourity and (at first) the medium to answer those questions by Lego themselves; it’s not like he just went off on his own, despite how some people may seem to view it.
Greg himself has given recommendations on his to deal with these discrepancies.
I’m not saying that the Greg Quotes system is perfect, but the flaws that you pointed out are more general than just the “fan-question” system; a lot of the published media in the later years was also written by only Greg with no one else on the story team contributing, and there are a fair number of contradictions in the published media as well.
Yes they might have had a lot of time, but maybe, for whatever reason the dont have acces to the boards right now or are on a trip or maybe just working a lot.
I don’t think it is fair to bash them just based on the time we have to wait.
Though Eljay atleast was apperantly online 15 hrs ago, maybe that means that something might happen this week idk.
@Winger had already brought up us normal users compiling useful quotes regarding character’s appearances and useful details that may help in crafting these characters a canon image.
We could probably be a bit more adamant about being more detailed in our own research and utilizing a system like that for greater consistency and accessibility for fact checking. I think that could help please those concerned with character authenticity to some extent at least.
It isn’t arbitrary. Greg has explicitly stated that he’s human, and if there are contradictions in his answers, what to treat as canon.
Also: this doesn’t just apply to Greg answers. Published Material can have contradictions too. Tell me, how exactly did that fight with the Manas in 01 go? Which of Kini Nui’s numerous different depictions/descriptions is canon?
I’mma ask if you have a source on this. Not saying I don’t believe you, but this is the first time I’ve ever heard that. I’ve only ever heard the “he had two swords based on a prototype” quote.
In not too long from now, things will either naturally die off or the thread will be closed for a couple days. Subsequently things will be quiet for a bit, then someone will meme, followed by someone asking when the voting is coming, ad nauseum