Honestly: TTV kinda shot themselves in the foot with this one. I’m not saying their question and answer isn’t clear. I’m fine with a “barbed” Broadsword being mandated based on this… I guess it counts as an Ask Greg Quote? But they did leave the door wide open for another pointless debate.
I’m curious how bs01 is going to cite this. Link to Eljay’s post?
As a clarification, since BS01 was addressed regarding the Barbed Broadsword:
Our page on the Broadsword does specifically state it’s for the Toa Empire version of Tuyet, which is LOGICAL for an egotistical Toa.
However, I am also of the opinion that she would not necessarily have used THAT sword as an original Toa Mangai and instead would have had a simple design of a broadsword, but that’s for a future question to Greg, I suppose.
There’s also Varian.
Are you guys ready for the “what counts as a staff/spear” debates?
I’m already planning on challenging the definition of a mace
Because clearly we need more chaos…
Not only is Metus’ dagger-thing apparently an axe, but…
These are all staves.
Bident? Staff. Giant axe? Staff. Weird hammer-thing? Staff. Mace? Staff. Weird scythe-thing? Staff. Pike? Staff.
Other staves in Bionicle: Takanuva and Teridax’s scythes, all of the Turaga’s tools, which include buzzsaws, hammers, tridents, and pickaxes, all of the Rahkshi’s double-ended glaives, all of the Rahaga’s tools, Takua’s blade on a stick, and pretty much every other weapon that involves one or two weapon parts and a stick.
So while Chiara is stuck with a spear (so definitely a pointy bit on a stick), and Orde is stuck with a mace (notably not a “spiked” mace this time, so probably not Actually A Morningstar like Helryx’s, yes they’re different weapons), Zaria… well…
Basically there’s precedent in Bionicle for just about every weapon under the sun to count as a staff as long as there’s a long axle attached to the back end of it. Hopefully, this means you can modify your Zaria MOCs to fit within this new headache with as few as one piece.
Yes, I want to see guns on sticks. If we can have a Rhotuka Launcher on a stick count as a staff, then I don’t see why other launcher-type weapons attached to sticks can’t count as a staff.
The hammer on Kodiak’s current version probably doesn’t even need to change that much, Onewa’s badge of office and Matau’s Combat Staff are both staves and also hammers, after all.
Basically, “Staff” gives an enormous amount of wiggle room and we should make the most of it.
EDIT: Vahki staves.
Two pincers and four swords now count as staves.
I think sometimes about that one story Plato defining men as “featherless bipeds”, which led to Diogenes running in with a plucked chicken and screaming “BEHOLD A MAN”. I’ve thought about that story a lot since these contests started.
I expect debate, but unlike the BB debates, I wouldn’t expect them to affect the contest in any practical way. I cannot expect any rule changes, any refinement on the definition of “staff”, any of that. It really could just be open discussions, and people explaining essentially why they’re going to vote the way they’re going to vote, or brainstorming ideas for the MOC. That could be cool.
…Unless people start running in with featherless chickens, so to speak.
The contests started with our plucked chicken moment.
Now we’re just finding more and more chickens to pluck, and also everything’s covered in feathers.
I think you underestimate the Bionicle community’s ability to argue over very minute and pointless things for arguments sake, or just to get a Greg quote…that they’ll then argue over.
I am not underestimating even slightly.
I’m just saying that the arguing shouldn’t necessitate a rule change this time, or even a call to Greg. It’d just be arguing.
You’re right. I was just pointing out that the BB discussion actually had consequence, and needed to come to a conclusion that would necessarily affect the rules. The staff discussion would only do that if someone intentionally was trying to be contrarian.
My bad on the poor wording there.
This is a massive strawman that belittles me and mocks everything I’m saying. The real exchange that occurred is more akin to the following:
Again, I’m not even opposed to the ruling, but the basis for it was not strong.
If your not opposed to it then why are you even arguing against it? This basis is way better then that highly contested evidence we had before as a base.
I don’t see what the big issue is here, “Oh sorry we didn’t get this exact wording “Dark Mirrior and Prime Universe Tuyet weilded barbed broadswords” so now it’s all invalid” That makes no sense.
Again an up to date quote from Greg is way better then what we had before, as far as I can tell even the anti-sword people are pretty chill with this response, your like the only one arguing against it and it’s not bringing us anywhere, this is just an argument for arguments sake at least in my opinion.
… Keplers kinda has a point. Greg could have only meant that as “yes, she also has a sword as a weapon.” Some people have suggested she only added the barbs upon becoming empress.
More like “hey, remember that taco Jim had awhile back? Would you like one?” “Sure, but only if it’s a different one.”
Their entire reason for even asking the question, as they stated right before asking it, is because of the sword that dark Mirror Teriduyet had. They are not just asking “did Tuyet have any kind of sword?” and there is zero chance that Greg read it that way.
I’m pointing out how this all-holy “confirmation” that everyone is worshiping is actually no more confirmatory than everything else we’ve got, entirely on the part of TTV’s failure to word their question conclusively. I’m not arguing against it, but I am calling out a failure in effectiveness.
I mean, even if you want to be that pedantic, it is still more than we had. Before this, there was still room to argue that Tuyet had a giant axe as a weapon. This does at least confirm she has a sword, even if the “barbed” bit is arguable.
Sure, I guess that’s worth celebrating.
It’s also worth noting that everyone responding to me has chosen to go for the ad hominem almost immediately after engaging with me, almost as if they’d rather just say I’m “pedantically” making “sad attempts” or “arguing to argue” instead of meaningfully engaging with me on any level. Not surprising, but a bit disappointing that you all consider yourselves to be on the higher ground and yet I haven’t resorted to personal attacks where everyone who has decided to argue against me has.
Those are my picks of sword, armor and mask for Tuyet, the traitorous and insane Toa Mangai of Water.
