BIONICLE G2 Discussion Topic

But this isn’t a theory anymore! It’s people hyping over minor things

I’m not referring to 3ION or anything anymore, I just gave you a hypothetical alternate universe where G3 existed and was genuinely good. In this alternate universe would you be happy or upset? I’m trying to understand your opinion.

Unsure

People didn’t really expect a CCBS-centered bionicle theme.
It sold less than expected, yes, but it was, and still is, relatively popular.

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Actually Nexo Knights began in 2016, not 2015

And miss out on all those cool sets and their cool parts? No thanks.[quote=“TheOnlyGuyWhoLikesMistika, post:248, topic:31906”]
The theme sold horrifically,
[/quote]

There isn’t any confirmation of that. LEGO themselves stated that it sold average, not bad. Weather they lied or not is a controversial topic, but all we can do is take their word and believe the facts they gave us.

Nexo Knights sold well. Not brilliantly, but well, and it was popular among young kids. The theme brought the sales LEGO wanted, but not enough to extend it further than it’s original planned run. So there is no reason to believe Nexo Knighs sold badly.

I can’t agree more. Just think about all those short lived 6 sets lines. Is there evidence to suggest they sold badly? No. Yet despite their limited run, everyone loves them. People keep calling Hidden Side a “Monster Fighters reboot” although that line only had one wave. [quote=“TheOnlyGuyWhoLikesMistika, post:260, topic:31906”]
I’m glad people here don’t work for Lego either, otherwise they’d lose all their money bringing back old themes
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Is there anything inherently wrong with that? Who said that would lose money? I mean yeah sure, you must balance the old stuff with the new stuff, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t bring a theme back in some capacity, at least once in a while.

If you don’t want Bionicle to come back, that’s your business. Let the people who want so to enjoy anything that might hint to it’s return, even if it won’t necessarily happen.

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Aside from stray threads of apparent rampant toxicity about the topic, I think the main reason people hated G2 is because it wasn’t a ten-year-long story-heavy expedition into adventures beyond description and lore so deep you could drown the Skyrim wikipedia in it.

And that’s really, really petty.

You have to understand that ten years is a good while. You don’t condense the work of a decade into a year and a half. Let’s compare the first two years of G1 with the entire run of G2 to make this a little more fair.

G1’s Plot: Six heroes arrive on the island of Mata Nui from an ancient prophecy. Meeting up, they join forces to take on the minions of the evil Makuta, who wants to establish his rule through the misery of the inhabitants of the island. They defeat the source of his minions, which is Makuta himself, before facing an unstoppable threat in the form of the Bohrok. barely overcoming this new foe, they become Toa Nuva, even stronger than before.

G2’s Plot: Six heroes arrive on the island of Okoto from an ancient prophecy. Meeting up, they join forces to take on the minions of the evil Makuta, who wants to establish his rule by finding some way to return to the island. They defeat the source of his minions, which is Kulta, the Skull Grinder, before facing an intimidating emissary from Makuta named Umarak the Hunter. Finding themselves overwhelmed, they take on Umarak’s transformed version at the height of Makuta’s power before sacrificing themselves to seal him away forever.

Now this isn’t so much a fair comparison so instead let’s compare a couple sets from the first year: Lewa and Lewa: Master of Jungle.

Lewa (G1): Off the top of my head the figure comes with 34 pieces? I’m probably wrong but it’s somewhere close. He retailed for $6.99 USD. He has a gear function which swings his right arm, limited poseability, is extremely similar in all aspects to the rest of the Toa in that wave being a near copy of them, and very little in terms of MOCing potential. His primary colours are green and lime green, with some black and light grey thrown in as well.

Lewa, Master of Jungle (G2): He comes with 84 parts, most of which are standard CCBS material. Double that of his ancestor. He retailed for $14.99 USD, nine dollars more than his grandpappy. He has a gear function which swings both his arms, great poseability, a weapon repurposing similar to the Toa Nuva, is rather distinct from his Toa cohorts in that wave, and has a fair bit of potential in MOCing. His primary colours are that newfangled green you kids are all crazy about these days according to LEGO, keetorange, and silver. I don’t know about you, but I know which one I’d be saving my tooth fairy money for.

Now there’s no way anyone could possibly justify G2’s very loosely slapped-together story as being somehow on-par or better than G1’s, even in the first two years. But people don’t seem to want Bionicle, even if the sets are objectively better and reasonably fair with inflation in mind. No, people want a ten-year-long series of epics, preferably piggybacking as much as possible off the original. Think about it: if you hate G2, suppose G1 never happened. Suppose G2 was the first time you heard the word Toa. Would you still hate it as much as now?

Stop comparing G2 to G1. That was never the intent of the line. LEGO did what people asked, they brought Bionicle back, but as an actual LEGO theme, not just a flimsy reason to get Greg Farshtey and Christian Faber writing stories again. G2 wasn’t a bad theme, it was rather good, but the golden pinnacle everyone puts Bionicle G1 up on is so incredibly high that LEGO will never ever be able to reach it in a million years because the fan expectations are far greater than what they could actually achieve or did achieve with G1. I’d go into why G1 isn’t as glorious as you remember it being but that’d not only be really off-topic, it’d make a lot of people really angry, and I’ve been the devil’s advocate here for long enough.

If you skipped straight to the end, hi! how’s your day? also, the summary of the whole post since that’s why you’re here: Bionicle G2 isn’t terrible, and the whole community collectively drove a stake through it because it didn’t satisfy our unrealistic demands. And now we’re asking LEGO to do it again.

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Preach. :clap:

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Actually, the original Toa Mata sets retailed for 6.99 USD.

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I liked Bionicle G2, if only for the same reasons I liked Transformers G2. The toys were pretty good quality compared to what came before, even if the story was lacking and commercials were iffy.

Now that I think about it, both G2s are the same, and I’m wondering why LEGO repeated the same mistake Transformers had committed long before it…

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Ok, so we all know that G2 didn’t do very well in sales. But if that was the case, why did LEGO officially stated that “it sold well”? Did they just straight up lie to us? Were they telling the truth? I am very confused. Can anyone explain to me why LEGO said what they said?

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I understand that you’re angry, but this viewpoint is entirely childish and unfair. People in the world, and certainly people who aren’t in this niche sphere of influence, aren’t responsible for making you a happy camper. I totally understand that energy - I have a similar passion for Treasure Planet, an absolute gem of a film that was completely swept under the rug, for… sketchy reasons at best. But blaming people for not investing their money into a product they didn’t care about/didn’t like for whatever reason is ridiculous.

There are a lot of factors at play here, everything from the timing to the execution and the current state of Lego itself. G1 is, and always has been, lightning in a bottle. I’m sure you’ve heard the story before: Lego was in dire straits, struggling financially, and they needed a big breakout theme to take them back into the big leagues.

Now, how much Bionicle actually contributed to this is up for debate, but one thing is certain: its very existence hinged on Lego being in that vulnerable position. This entire product line was a huge risk for multiple reasons, one that nobody was even sure was going to work, but Lego went through with it because, well, what choice did they have? And so they pulled out all the stops, and it was the smash hit that it was. And that was great.

Compare that to 2015. Lego is positively booming, and they have been for over a decade. Bionicle isn’t their last hope anymore, it’s a business opportunity with a pre-established fanbase that they want to capitalize on. Because of that, they play it much safer, take less risks, maybe don’t invest as much in a budget as they should’ve. And, in turn, whatever the team tasked with creating the line came up with just didn’t click. And… sometimes that’s just how things are.

But, who’s to say I would’ve done any better anyway, or you, or anyone, really. G1 (particularly the golden years) had some huge shoes to fill. Looking back on G2 with our 20/20 vision, there’s a lot of missteps that we could probably course-correct in that situation if we magically had that foresight. But we don’t. And what happened, happened.

also, he’s being sarcastic. I couldn’t bear to let this one sit :stuck_out_tongue:

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I’m really sorry. just I guess I’ve become kind of a Madman after G2. it’s been 4 years but I’m still mad both Angry and Insane. I can’t really Handle my anger that well and I usually don’t think before I say things (ok I kind of do but you get the point) also…

wow. good thing he was ban am I right?

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There are definitely extremes on both sides of the argument. For the fun of it though: I’d like you to try this argument on for size. There’s a lot of subjectivity when it comes to the enjoyment of a franchise, as is true with G2 Bionicle. Sure, some people hate the sets, other people love them. I’m somewhere inbetween, personally. Some people think the story was simplistic and childish, and not very well thought out. I lean more towards the negative side, and honestly Ryder Windham’s tireless work trying to perform CPR on the series through the books and graphic novels are most of the reason why I’m not decided.

But let’s put all that aside, let’s look at a foundational element of this franchise’s premise.

The Golden Years of Bionicle G1 (01-03, in case you were wondering), are renowned among fans for their atmosphere and air of mystery. This is the era G2 was trying to emulate, and you’ll see why this is important once I finally reach the point. :stuck_out_tongue: Some older fans go so far as to claiming that later years destroyed what had been perfectly good in the first place. I’m… undecided on this. I can definitely see where the argument is coming from, but I tend to counter with this: mystery is really a lot of questions. Bionicle asked a lot of them, it was a great appeal of the series, but as far as we can tell from every person who worked on it, from the very beginning those questions were always posed with the intention of answering them someday (answers that were actually planned ahead of time, unlike some people… :stuck_out_tongue:). Does this detract from the overall story? Perhaps. But that’s a whole other argument.

One of these fundamental questions is there from the moment you step into this world, even if you aren’t aware of it, or are just so familiar with Bionicle at this point that you don’t even think about it. The question being: why are they robots? (yes, I’m aware that they’re biomechanical, which actually adds further to the theme, but the point is they’re entirely synthetic and man-made - somebody clearly built them, they didn’t just pop into existence one day for no reason)

No, seriously, this is supposed to be a tropical island, and they’re living a tribal lifestyle, so, why are they robots? This question underpins the entire franchise and its whole premise: the natural and the artificial, the biological and the mechanical. The Toa, despite being robots, control the natural elements, shaping the world around them. Mata Nui, despite being a robot, is stricken with a sickness similar to that of a living creature.

This is intentional, this contrast was deliberate. It was designed from the very beginning to make you question everything you were being told. How did these robotic beings arrive here? Where did the scattered remnants of technology come from? Are these legends and tales that they believe the whole truth? As the hard work of Maku/the Shadow Emperor shows (as found here), there were likely several more plans to add layers of misdirection and intrigue into the story such as a possible creation myth involving the Toa.

Now, for a number of reasons the religious elements were toned down, but even what we did get, the legend of Mata Nui, was enough to serve the purpose of the story well enough as a half-true tale that the truly knowledgeable characters - the Turaga, could tell their followers for whatever reasons they had. It’s obviously easy to take this for granted: it’s Bionicle, of course they’re robots, but they were robots for a reason, a deliberate and specific reason that served the story that everyone in that wonderful team wanted to tell. It was a red flag cluing us in to what was really going on, that we weren’t being told the whole truth. That their lord and saviour Mata Nui was in fact not a formless spirit, but a giant robot that was made to fix a broken planet and also gather knowledge or something. :stuck_out_tongue:

All this to say: what was the point of it in G2 then? What functional reason did having the Okotans, Toa, wildlife, Skull Raiders, Skull Spiders, etc. be robots (or at least very robot-like), serve? Well… it’s… Bionicle, they have to be robots! They just are! Stop questioning it! Don’t get me wrong, this is an easy trap to fall into. Pretty much every Bionicle project that reinvents the concept ends up doing it. Even the semi-living shamelessly plugged Bionicle Eternal project that I’m a part of is guilty of this oversight. But it’s there.

And I think it shows a lot about how G1 and G2 approached building their world. G1 was carefully plotted and planned (if rewritten half a dozen times in its subsequent 10 year run :stuck_out_tongue:) while G2 looked mostly at the surface level: trying to recapture that same magic without considering the deeper layers that made it so magical in the first place.

As a reminder, I’m not saying this to make you, or anyone, hate G2. All I’m doing is giving a point that has occurred to me on why it’s always felt so… off, to me personally. If you enjoy it, all the power to you - I just can’t. So who’s the real loser in this scenario anyway? :stuck_out_tongue:

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you can’t just tell me to enjoy it and call me a loser for liking it

anyway, I kind of get why people don’t like it I understand a bit. but most people were and still are Harsh about it, too the point where it was one of the reason why it failed. you remember that “you Killed Bionicle” video that TTV made in 2014? yeah THAT what happened to G2 and it really upsets me.

maybe I just can’t get over it and I want someone to blame. it just hurts when something I really love dies probably forever.

I was calling myself a loser, for spending this much time on the internet talking at length about a subset of something I like that I only kind of like, but okay :stuck_out_tongue:

Still thriving but massively reviled franchises exist, as is demonstrated by… well, Star Wars for the last I don’t know how long, the Michael Bay Transformers movies, and many others. Simply being panned by a vocal minority (or even a vocal majority) doesn’t kill a franchise. A franchise, any franchise that wants to be successful, relies on mass appeal. People willing to go out and buy whatever you might be selling, both in tickets and in merchandise.

In the case of a franchise like Bionicle being rebooted, this would necessarily mean drawing in a new audience. New people who have never even heard of a Bionicle, or only in passing. People who missed it the first time, children who were too young to be exposed to it in its prime, etc. Nostalgia-filled fans with expendable income is a bonus, sure, but without that fresh audience you’re bound to stagnate.

Your audience would only ever be as big as the one you once had, arguably smaller. It’s been five years now. Those people have grown up, maybe gotten jobs, maybe gotten married, maybe they’re not interested anymore, maybe they have other things to worry about than spend money on a toyline they used to like in the past.

As frustrating or unfair as those harsh reactions may be, they aren’t the difference-maker here. The “blame”, if it belongs anywhere, belongs squarely on Lego’s shoulders for banking on a fractured and shrunken (if highly passionate) fanbase being able to near single-handedly return their investment while barely making much effort to reel in a new audience. Would it have possibly been financially successful if those vocal fans who refused to give it a chance had instead paid up? Maybe. But it would’ve been a slim chance at best.

I find it a tad ironic that you keep coming back to this point. I have seen the video before, I’d given it a like apparently so I must’ve resonated with the message, but I confess that I haven’t seen it in a while, so I decided to give it another watch. And I think we’re getting two wholly different takeaways from that video.

As far as I can gather, “You Killed Bionicle” is an entirely metaphorical phrase. This video was created at a time when Bionicle G2 was on the verge of arriving, and doubt was beginning to be sown in the fanbase, people were signing cancel Lego petitions, and it was all getting a little bit out of control. It was preempting the very common phrase “x killed my childhood” to generalise fan backlash against a reboot for being different or inferior or whatever, and turning it on its head. It’s an entirely personal experience. Just like nostalgia.

Bionicle isn’t (at the time, consider context :stuck_out_tongue:) dead, Transformers isn’t dead, TMNT isn’t dead and Star Wars sure as heck won’t die anytime soon as much as some people might be calling for it. What the title means by “You Killed Bionicle” is: “You Have Allowed Yourself to Believe That Bionicle, and by Extension Your Childhood, Has Been Killed”. If you ask me, the former seems like a more concise title :stuck_out_tongue:

The ironic thing being, you seem to be (indirectly, to be fair, it’s not exact) a target of this video. You fear the change that comes with Bionicle G2, and by extension Bionicle as a whole, being over. In denial, rage and frustration, you lash out against someone, anyone, to put blame on, for taking this beloved, nostalgic thing away from you. You refuse the idea that things can be positive, wallowing in the negative.

But it doesn’t have to be this way. Yes, G2 was cancelled, coming up on four years ago now (man does time fly), but the Bionicle community was not. It’s still here, living and breathing on sites like TTV, or that Bionicle subreddit, or Maskposting. Yes, we’re not a big community, certainly not big enough to be financially viable most likely, but what we lack in numbers we more than make up for in raw passion and dedication. Yes, the story has ended, content has stopped flowing, but there are innumerable fan projects to rally around like the stuff being rolled out by Red Star Games, or Bionicle Dark Souls Quest for Mata Nui, or heck, even the actual Christian Faber’s ever mysterious 3IONICLE. Yes, there aren’t any new sets, but canonization contests are returning (approved by Greg!), MOCing is very much alive and well, and there is still every possibility that Sokoda’s amazing 20th anniversary diorama will become an official Lego Ideas set that we can purchase, and build, and cherish.

Bionicle the product is gone, maybe for good, and I can’t deny that it kinda sucks. A lot. But that’s just the way of things. As a horribly parsed Bob Ross would say: you can’t have light without dark, you need to have bad stuff happen so you can appreciate the good times. But Bionicle the product was only ever going to have a limited shelf life (pun unintended). Bionicle the idea? Theoretically, that could live forever.

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Amazingly well put (as have the entirety of your responses). I give a big salute to you.

Yea, everyone felt the exact same way when G1 ended. People were treating it like the end times and were willing to do anything to seek “justice” in their eyes.

I remember seeing Hero Factory. Me and my other 11 year old friends at the time even wanted to boycott it. I remember all of it, the anger, the sadness, the vitriol, the blame game, the plots, the petitions.

But that’s not the right thing to do. I actually really like Hero Factory now, believe it or not. It’s because I’m older, I’m wiser, and I’ve grown past that level of immaturity that made me lash out at change because I realize I always have a choice, and that each new thing around the bend deserves to be taken in stride.

But here’s the upside: you can and will (and should) get over it. I echo @TheMightyObsidianDude’s sentiment, it does suck. All change sucks at first. But like he said, it’s been four years now. Pretty soon we’ll be at the exact same juncture we were at back in 2014. But that doesn’t mean we can’t appreciate the things that came before, and it most certainly doesn’t mean that you won’t ever love something again.

There’s so much in the world, in your life, that you will find, you will love, and you will eventually lose. Everything is finite, it’s an inevitability that we all need to come to terms with. What we do not do is wallow in that loss; we cherish the love we have (or had) and we continue to do so for each new thing. Could be a person, a pet, an experience, and yes, even a LEGO toy line.

And personally, I am of the camp that is glad we even had a G2. I like it because it existed, and it was a meaningful experience to me in many more ways than the toys or the story.

With that, I leave you with this:

"It is said that all endings are merely beginnings, waiting to be born."

  • Mata Nui
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Equally beautifully put. I especially agree with this sentiment:

Regardless of my opinion of the product we actually got, G2 meant much more to me than just that. I was born too late to fully appreciate G1 in its prime, and truly got into the franchise during the interim, probably 2013-14-ish, spending hours on BS01 just reading and reading and falling in love with the franchise in a way I never had when it was alive. I started to actively consume Bionicle media: the miramax movies (somehow I ended up watching web of shadows first lol, talk about confusing), the comics and games on the biomedia project, and even collecting the occasional set that my cousin would gift me when we visited.

When G2 was announced, I finally had the opportunity to truly be a part of this community, to join in the collective excitement of something we all loved returning and bringing new content. And that was the main thing for me: community. This passionate, dedicated, die-hard community. I wouldn’t pass that up for all the comics and sets in the world, frankly.

G2’s ending hit me pretty hard, initially, if only for just how sudden it was. I remember the day vividly. I was at my cousin’s house (yes, that cousin) at the time on holiday, and while I was over there the final episode of Journey to One dropped. So I was like “sure, why not, let’s watch it”. When it was over, and the Toa returned to the stars, I felt kind of numb. Wait, that’s it? Surely not, it’s three years, not two. And I took to Lego.com to read the very message I dreaded. I couldn’t believe it, I just couldn’t. I’d prepared myself for the idea that G2 might only finish one three-year cycle as per Lego standard, but this had come completely out of left field. This just didn’t make sense, how did it go this wrong?

I felt numb for the rest of the day, and quite a few days after. But I had friends in this community that I could talk to about it, people experiencing the exact same thing, some of them for the second time. And, after a little while, and with their help, that loss became a part of the past, a memory. And I could look more objectively at what we’d been given. But those memories of enjoying the theme in the moment, the friends I’ve made, that’s what’s going to stick with me. Not what I lost, but what I gained.

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