It definitely would be much harder to pull-off, so what we got was a safer bet. They still couldn’t really do that either though.
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I’m not so sure.
I think time travel is an interesting idea, and I know you could make it work in theory.
But I long suspected that, if they were to connect the generations, Okoto and G2’s world would have been another dimension or universe that the G1 Toa were simply pulled into.
The idea that the Toa resided in the stars and were “pulled down” by the Mask of Time and then returned once their mission was over seemed to lead credence to that idea to me.
Perhaps the Mask of Time exists as a constant in all dimensions and that its two halves were divided between the G1 and G2 dimensions, linking them? The connection between the two led to the legends of the Toa in the G2 universe and the mask’s power reached through space and time to bring them there.
At least, that’s how I would have done it, if they had to be connected. Of course, I don’t suspect this is what was actually being led to since some of the Toa’s personalities were so drastically shifted (of course, you could claim this was due to their displacement). I think the idea that the Mask of Time’s other half existed in the G2 universe was just an interesting callback and an answer to an old mystery that connected them in just the subtlest of ways.
But it would have been cool if the G2 Toa and G1 Toa were one and the same.
But…
I kinda agree with this.
I like the freedom that comes with a reboot more than having the jump through hoops to connect two very different ideas.
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I need to watch that video, that concept is a genius soft reboot. Keeps the same concept and feel of 2001, gives the franchise a fresh start, while still drawing on it’s roots and lore.
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Part 2 is out. A few interesting things here. Faber wanted to tell an origin story for the masks of power on Mata Nui, (even though we already have one, but okay?).
A long time after G1’s ending a villain stole the mask from its Protodermis shrine and opened a time portal to the past, which was part of the 3ionicle logo we saw in the Biovival posts (it seems as though most sketches in these posts were from G2). This a Turaga or some other heroic character has to sacrifice themselves to get information to the other side in something that would be reminiscent to Matoro’s and Ignika’s sacrifice. The portal would also be used to place the masks of power on Mata Nui…
AND BRING MR MAKURO INTO THE BIONICLE TIMELINE WHERE HE WOULD FOUND THE HERO FACTORY?!
What is this timeline?
Also there would be a new hero character who would wear the mask of time.
I… don’t know what to make of this honestly… The mask of power idea is somewhat canon-breaking and I’m not a fan of the idea of bringing Hero Factory and Bionicle into one universe
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Quiet…you’ll summon him. That guy from BZP will feel so vindicated ugugugughhh gg dude.
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I found this odd too.
I didn’t quite understand his explanation (I don’t know why someone has to sacrifice themselves to the time portal or whatever that’s about), but either way I knew it didn’t quite fit with the established canon.
We know that it was the Metru that made and placed the masks for the Mata to find (and somehow the Nuva masks as well, but we won’t talk about that), but does anybody know when this explanation was created? Because I have a theory that perhaps Faber isn’t too terribly familiar with the more nuanced minutia of the lore like that and probably just didn’t know that was already explained. I find it possible that he simply just went back to the original concepts he had a hand in and tried to develop those further and just wasn’t too involved with Greg’s intricacies.
While I’m in the camp that I don’t think this exact version of G2 would have been received well, or is totally better than the one we got, I will say that Faber and the team brought in to consult on it did succeed in recapturing that original mystery.
Particularly, I actually really like the idea that, in the distant Bionicle future, evil has been vanquished entirely and the heroes have put down their weapons. I also really like the idea that some new threat stole the Mask of Time. The visual of the cracked protodermis shrine with the warnings all around and the mystery of who or what could have stolen the mask feels very original Bionicle. I would have loved to see that concept play out, even though I’m not personally a big fan of the time travel idea.
That being said, it seems like they were breaking canon again in the development when they claimed that the Mask of Time was the first mask ever made. I don’t know where they got that from since the Ignika was the first mask (which seems strange to me that Faber wouldn’t know this since he played such a large role in its inception and design).
Perhaps he meant it was the “first mask” the team made when originally creating Bionicle, but I’m not sure. They use that line in the lore blurbs on the pitch material, so it seemed to me like explaining more about the Vahi’s lore was part of the plan.
All of this insight has led me to see that it was “mystery” that was missing from G2. I don’t think we need super in-depth explanations of everything (though the G2 books were a much appreciated step towards that), but we did need a reason to engage with the story.
G2 introduced so many things that could have been mysteries, but ultimately weren’t. What happened to Ekimu? Where is he now? Can he really be awoken? If so, how? What is the Temple of Time? How do it and the other half of the Vahi play into things? What happened to Makuta? What’s in the crater on Okoto? Where is the Mask of Ultimate Power, and can it be used for good?
All of these questions were either answered almost immediately or just forgotten about and never explored. As a second part of this, I don’t think G2 had any strong key visuals.
G1 had the canisters washing up on shore. The Toa putting themselves together. Masks buried in sand and into cliff sides. The Toa gathering at mysterious temples. All things meant to have the audience ask questions and want to explore more.
What sucks is that G2 could have had great mysterious visuals like this. The crater where Ekimu and Makuta fought and that entire backstory was so good and rife with potential for engaging mystery, but it just never comes up. Even the Toa falling from the sky could have been a good mystery point, but it’s ruined because almost immediately they meet the villagers and learn about their destiny.
G2 had heaps of potential for intrigue and mystery, and while I don’t like the time travel idea, this G2 pitch at least has those over the final version.
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I… wouldn’t even call this a theory. The way Faber said it does make it look like he isn’t entirely sure whether there is an explanation why the masks are on the island. There are a lot of things in the fan interviews he has given so far that he is not all too familiar with Bionicle lore. I am not even sure whether he knows how evil the Piraka actually were in the story or how much Farshtey’s writing influenced the Bionicle story and world, especially in the later years.
I would be surprised if it turns out he actually knows who Voporak is and why he would be somewhat important to address for mask of time stories.
Watching the creators panel from 810nicle day it seems as though except for Greg Farshtey everyone working on Bionicle lost track on the lore at some point. That in combination with Farshtey once making a comment on how frustrating it was for him to argue with the story team whether 2009 should be a sequel or a reboot for me really seems to be a hint that nobody kept track of what he was doing. Who knows how many people working in the G2 team actually had read Farshtey’s books or the BS01 wiki. A time-travel theme I think would have required involvement of, or at the very least more elaborate consulting with Greg Farshtey to keep the lore mostly intact.
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I feel like there are some misconceptions being drawn here. I will elaborate.
While it’s true that many people who were part of the creative process in the early days of Bionicle are not so familiar with the wider scope of the later story, Faber was definitely NOT one of them. He absolutely did keep up with the full story because he was responsible for the most fundamental aspects of its worldbuilding, core themes and details.
Now onto the video(s). At the start Faber makes it clear he is drawing on the core G1 concepts and not worrying too much about contradicting precious iterations of those concepts. “Where did the masks come from” is a question a Bionicle fan would (and did) ask back in 2001, and Faber wants to recapture that feeling of mystery. For G2 (and G3) he came up with an new answer rather then recycling old explanations. That is the out of the universe reason.
The in-universe reason is that, as Faber said, a villain who travelled back in time conquered the island and prepared for the arrival of Toa - captured Matoran as bait, raised armies, set traps, and presumably taken or destroyed the original masks.
That is when the Well of time concept come into play. Someone either steals the mask of time or it escapes itself as Toa Vahi, travels back in time and creates the well. The “good guys” of the present find out and prepare a timeline-rescuing mission. A Turaga sacrifices himself/herself to become a disk of pure protodermis, which acts as the source of the new masks of power and contains all the knowledge of the present. It is thrown down the well and ends up on Mata Nui of 2001, which is now a diverging timeline. Several heroes also sacrifice their peacefull lives to go fight new evil in the past.
With these new videos coming out and all of the amazing information being revealed, I feel vindicated because pretty much all of the concepts and ideas I was able to decipher about G2’s storyline development are being confirmed to be true! I was actually in the process of making a Bionicle G2 analysis series, where I would talk about this and here we are before I even release the first part - some of the stuff is already confirmed 
I am certainly going to incorporate this material into the analysis once I am finished with it.
As I see it, it’s quite obvious that while many of these concepts did not play out as Faber planned (you can tell the actual execution is bothering him), its essence remains in the G2 story, no matter how disjointed or mutilated.
I can’t wait for more videos from Faber 
That wouldn’t be a problem since that was never a point - this was a new story with no requirement from the audience to know what came before. Only if you did, you would find even deeper meaning behind certain story aspects. This is one of the few things that remained completely unchanged between proto-G2 and actual G2.
The sketches are for the “G3” not proto-G2, we know that much. But thanks to these videos, we now know that what Faber wants to do with G3 is to revisit his initial concepts of G2.
PS: I always said Mr. Makuro was ither Turaga or a Great Being.
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I have NO idea what’s going on another then it sucks EVEN MORE to be a G2 Fan
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The time-well he said was for G2. He can’t use the time-well in whatever he is doing now, because he has no rights to Bionicle. Yes it wouldn’t entirely make sense, because G2 has no use for a 3 in the title, but there is nothing he can do with that logo as it is now. Bionicle is done, at least for now. The other sketches we saw were G2 concepts. The 3ionicle may be the only new one. Still, it just ties back to G2 concept ideas.
What makes you so sure about that? I have never heard him talking about things like Tuyet, Krahka, Voporak, the Shadowed One, Marendar, the Golden Skinned Being, Rahi Nui, Mavrah, the Zivon, Baterra, Element Lords, the Cursed Great Being, Karzahni or Artakha…
When he talks about Bionicle, he talks about Mata Nui, Makuta, the Vitruvian Man, Matoro, Toa Ignika, the islands and so on. Of course he knows the things he was involved with. But that’s not all that is to Bionicle. Or the timeline.
I just revisited the TTV interview with Faber and he said something interesting back then.
“What we have seen is myth. It’s like reading an old book about something that happened many years ago. What if you went into that action yourself and actually you knew all that myth, but you went in there all by yourself.”
So maybe the approach was just that all lore discrepancies would be explained with faulty chronicles.
There is a problem though. We already know that there is supposed to be a past and a present component to this world, meaning that it contextualizes itself already as the end and the new beginning of the G1 story. How easily can you explain the present if you disregard the timeline up to that point. It is a new beginning, but one that is as much reliant on the things that came before as the Bara Magna saga was.
If G1 and G2 truly were the same universe, then the world has to feel like one universe. If the whole thing is just different it might as well have been the Olmak, parallel dimension, everything’s somewhat similar but not necessarily the same. The Bionicle world is vast and complex. You will eventually run in a plothole with a time-travel plot. Especially if at one point the inside of the robot should be explored. If you combine the lore, but disregard pre-established things for your own convenience, then it has no reason to be that way. As long as you can explain it with, the villain changed XYZ, then okay, I am on board with it, but for example changing the entire political factions within the MU wouldn’t work that way. Then it would be just better to make it another universe. And I just doubt that Faber kept track of the Dark Hunter, Order of Mata Nui, Brotherhood of Makuta, Zakaz, Xia and Stelt politics to a degree where it all can be kept in line. But if his solution really is just to say that G1 is an incorrect recollection of what happened, then I am not to thrilled about it, honestly. We have 100.000 years of almost blank timeline and endless parallel dimensions to tell Bionicle stories.
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I kind of agree with what Makutros is saying here: I have no doubt that Faber kept up with the stuff that was created by the larger story team (i.e. the “main story” that went in the novels and comics), but I’m less sure that he kept up with the Greg-only guides and online story, or any of the information that was canonized through Greg’s community interactions.
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Like I said before, I really love the key visuals associated with this idea, but I think Faber’s explanation of this particular execution would have been pretty flawed and highly controversial.
Time travel stories are always rife with issues, but one that’s bothering me with this idea in particular is how this “bad guy going back in time to alter the past” is meant to be a threat or is meant to be stopped.
We don’t exactly know how time travel works in the Bionicle universe, but assuming it works like Faber’s stated inspiration of Back to the Future, that would mean altering the events of the past alters the present in a fixed timeline. If that’s the case, how exactly were the Toa meant to discover that the present is being changed? I suppose it could have worked if it was a “slow disappearance” thing like in BttF, but usually in popular media when a character alters the past, the present changes almost instantly to reflect the new past.
The video game Spider-Man: Edge of Time had a very similar premise. A villain from 2099 goes back in time, founds the evil megacorp Alchemax much earlier than it should have been, and transformed both the “present” of Peter Parker’s Spider-Man and 2099’s future in an instant. The only reason any of the plot actually happens and the villain’s plan doesn’t just immediately work is because Spider-Man 2099 was trapped in the time portal and was unaffected by the changes, allowing him to contact Peter Parker in the past and fix the timeline.
If we applied a similar story to Bionicle (if it would have been an immediate change sort of thing), the Toa would have had to chase after this new threat immediately, ruining the mystery.
Of course, the flipside to this is basically any other interpretation of time travel involving alternate dimensions and branching timelines. If the bad guy going back in time doesn’t affect the present then…why do the Toa bother chasing after them?
This is all a long winded way of saying, at least in the way this pitch was explained, it didn’t feel like the urgency of chasing this villain back in time was explained super well. It is for us, the audience, because the meta idea of “the main Bionicle canon” would be at threat but…we don’t have any clear indication that the Toa would feel the same.
I know I’m arguing what basically amounts to semantics over an unreleased story concept, but I think it just goes to show the amount of attention that needs to be put into making time travel work and make sense in any capacity.
That being said, I really want to see more. It’s flawed, but interesting.
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Yes, yes the time well is 100% early G2 (I’m calling it proto-G2) concept. But the sketches released during the advertisement of 3ionicle (aka Biovival, aka G3) were fresh ones for that - based on the way they were released plus accompanying messages, and most importantly the dated signatures. Faber’s signatures always have the year in which the sketch was made. He uses another type of signature to signify when an old sketch was “shown” to the public. The 3ionicle concepts only have the first type and all of them have recent years. See the Vitruvian robot below - type 1 signatire on the right, type 2 on the left). And then a 3ionicle concept with type 1 signature with a recent date.
Plaus, he only recently got permission from Lego to reveal G2 concept art, so his 3ionicle art had to be new.
Anyway, what I am saying is that the 3ionicle is a continuation and utilization of the core concepts for proto-G2, the ones which were ultimately unused for G2.
Just based on all of the posts on his blog etc. He is pretty much the one who created all of these environments for different story years, the look, the feel, and the fundamental thematic story beats. I’m not saying he knows every last character and their fate in the story - for example I doubt he has ever heard of Toa Krakua. But I think it is clear from the level of detail in his posts and concept art that he is very closely intertwined and familiar with the story of Bionicle in its entirety, including the late years, unlike the story team members of the early days, such as Swinnerton who likely wouldn’t recognise a Visorak.
I am definitely putting Farshtey and Faber on the same level when it comes to G1 familiarity - they are just on the different sides of the spectrum: Faber is on the worldbuilding and thematic side, Farshtey is on the character and “event networking” side.
I agree. What I took from all of this is that from the perspective of proto-G2 (and G3 if it ever happens) the old story might or might not have happened. As the result of the amnesia, the events of the past turned into myths and legends and because this is the 2001 island of Mata Nui, they should be real, but then there is the villain who knows this also, and he/she has already chnged the events by preparing for the Toa’s arrival. It is what the G1-familiar audience knows vs what the characters in story/new audience know. The details of the legends are not important because they are subject to change. You as the hero know them, but you have amnesia and can’t be sure if someone has altered the course of events (someone did).
It seems to me that the new “present story” is really not that much reliant on the past events at all. As Faber said: All the battles were fought, all the villains defeated and heroes had put down their weapons in this time of peace.
So the beginning of the present story in proto-G2 is far removed from the hypothetical end of G1, leaving thousands of years open for any kinds of Greg Farshtey serials. The point is all of that is long in the past now and things are calm. The only thing that really matters is that sometime in this unseen past, the Mask of time was involved and was recognized to be too dangerous and thus sealed in the Column of time on Mont Magna (as Faber called it). Then centuries passed and now we are finally in the “present story”. Someone or something broke the mask fre and travelled back to 2001 island to change the course of history.
I strongly feel that the “present story” would not have been much of the focus of proto-G2. At best it would be like the present time snippets of the 2004/2005 flashback. 90% of the action would be taking place in the past.
Of course we cannot answer everything yet, we will get more information as Faber releases more videos, but I maintain the view that the specifics of the old story are not important. This was a new beginning and the new story would not be burdened by them, but it could draw from them in new and unique ways. This was one of the main mantras of G2 as a whole - “familiar but new and mask of time might have something to do with it”. Now we know what was hiding behind this vague concept, before it was watered down.
He didn’t. As I said I view it as two sides of the spectrum. For a brand new story, you first need Faber’s side with a wider scope rather than hyper-detailed character driven Farshtey side. But we have to remember that proto-G2 was not just Faber alone, but a whole story team where Greg Farshtey originally was present. It looks like we will learn a ot more about tumoltuous development of G2, so it should become more clear then.
@Pakari
Many of these concepts were not fully fleshed out because the course of G2 was changed. We would no doubt learn these specifics when the time is right, but based on how Faber was talking about it, the rules of time travel would be a part of the mystery, at least for a while.
EDIT: Meso gets it! Can’t wait for the Nak and Jay, as well as the new Faber interview!
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Agreed!
I’m convinced that if they went with Faber’s ideas during the early development of Gen-2, they probably elaborated further on them.
And as you’ve said, we need to wait for more from Faber to really judge these ideas.
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What is 3IONICLE at this point? Where does abandoned G2 end and Biovival start (But that is and has been for another topic for some time now).
What I would say is that they both are equally relevant for creating the world of Bionicle. But what is done here is interfering with the timeline and continuity, the timeline and continuity which was Greg Farshtey’s job to manage. Greg Farshtey can tell stories in the Bionicle universe, because he knew the canon, because he created it. Faber can expand the world with new ideas, locations and themes, but he could not just write something canon-compliant because that was never his task.
In more abstract terms: Christian Faber was the one who walked new, unseen ground, while Greg Farshtey mapped out the known lands. Christian Faber is an explorer, Greg Farshtey is a guide.
He had ideas and others took that ideas and transformed it into the fictional universe. And the ideas are awe-inspiring, these ones included. But like he himself says not everything he thinks of usually makes the cut. What’s the problem here is that he creates new connection points on a net where he is only familiar with the grand outlines. And his solution is simply this:
What exactly changes? If the villain only changed things on Mata Nui the aftermath of his intervention can hardly be that different. Legends of Metru Nui would still exist, as would the Brotherhood and the Order. Ignition would likely still happen, unless the villain is some mad genius scientist or something. All the changes would be restricted to the time frame of the original three years of the story. And that restricts a lot of story-telling possibilities.
And if the biological chronicles just were not true to begin with, all world building and fun little trivia done by Greg Farshtey in G1 seems kind of pointless as an aftermath. The original Bionicle would be demoted to nothing but a lie.
Still, there would be things that are hard to explain for an entry point: Where are we, why are there two kinds of people? Why does now look so different from back then? Maybe the GSRs are still laying on the planet? What was the mask of time, why is it different now? What has all of this to do with this island they are travelling to? What have Makuta and Mata Nui to do with all of this? That’s a lot of exposition for a “new” Lego theme.
If I recall correctly, Greg Farshtey, unlike Christian Faber, was not involved with G2 at any point. He was mentioned as a consultant in the 2015 animations but from what I remember he told his contribution was almost zero.
As Faber said he is legally not allowed to go too much into detail on how this all played out. So I am not sure whether he will talk about how things went downhill to an extended degree.
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To most of these we simply don’t have enough information either because A) it never got to that stage, or B) Faber has not shared it yet.
I think it is best to just wait for more info.
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Why don’t you just ask him for some clarification? (Mr. Faber, that is.) I for one actually like this idea of Hero Factory being either inspired by the Toa or caused by them via a time-travel adventure. It makes for a good way to avoid having fan-favorite characters stuck dealing with the hero-killer on Spherus Magna.
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The prospect of getting more Hero Factory lore makes me salivate profusely.
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Sad day bois
The guy that reviewed all bonkle sets (All-Out Brick) is leaving YouTube
We’re not getting Hero Factory Friday 
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