The objectively best Helryx submission caused a civil war. Double’s entry only beat it because the nonbelievers coordinated and backed it to beat the true canon Helryx. This is totally off-topic and should be taken elsewhere if you still have questions.
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The difference is that it’s objectively wrong to call what Faber is doing “exploitation”, by the definition of the word. In contrast, telling me to stop pointing out flawed criticism is a matter of taste and / or opinion.
He’s not promised anything, or asked people to follow him somewhere, so I don’t see how you can claim Faber is “stringing” anyone along. Like I say, if people can’t help reading more into things than are stated, maybe they should take a step back.
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exploitation - the use of something in order to get an advantage from it (Cambridge Dictionary)
If someone sees his action as using his past with Bionicle and the Bionicle fans to gain leverage for his Rebel Nature project or his “personal brand”, then it’s not objectively wrong to call this action exploitation.
But he saw that the people got hyped by his posts. If he didn’t want them to fall into false hype, why didn’t he stop it? Post this: “I don’t want to revive Bionicle”. Everything is solved. No disapponted fans, no angry fans. So he either intentionally or unintentionally didn’t cleared this misconception. (Neither of the two are good options).
And I can’t say that the fans who believed him should be blamed for it. They asked him to “don’t give false hope”. He kept doing what he did, without concrete clarifications, so it is a logical conclusion that it isn’t false hope.
It’s not surprising that when they find out there was nothing, they become annoyed and write some rude comments.
(this is based on him not making any straightforward hint or statement about not making something like G3).
What if there is or was a Bionicle G3 in the process?
Then he fell into the problem of not being straight forward enough. More concrete statement like the one about the covid situation and the meeting.
Like, what is the explanation of the third criptic message, under the “le”? Is it him not wanting to finish his Bionicle project? Or he can’t because of outside forces? Is it just some motivational two liner? Or there wasn’t any Bionicle project and he just played with the people for fun?
No context, no explanation, and since this have been almost constant over the two years, it’s not hard for the people to jump into the last conclusion. And again, here we are at the disappointed fans, even if there was a G3-like under the hood.
Edit: Just to be sure: I’m not saying Faber is a bad guy or that he deliberately baited his audience, nor am I mad about his teasing and criptic posts. I just criticise what he have done and explain why do I see his actions bad or nat practical.
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He just did, by deleting those posting and making that comment.
Yet people are more mad at him than ever now.
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I don’t think Faber producing BIONICLE content to cynically boost attention for his other projects is a plausible possibility. To be honest, I think accusing someone of such a malicious (and likely self-destructive) act with no real reason is pretty out of line.
But Faber does want BIONICLE to return and may well be pitching its return to certain parties. But he’s also trying to dampen expectations, exactly because he can’t promise anything will happen. It may be that the only “BIONICLE” content we get in the future is community-made, which is why he emphasises the community aspect.
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Yeah and then he posted again with the exact same angle, two years later
You’re about to cause a civil war
Given that you’re extremely nonspecific in your statement, I’m going to assume it was directed at me, because I get that a lot
I’m only spelling out the impending community dismissal of all things Faber because that’s very likely what the greater Bionicle community will do when Faber consistently refuses to even begin to describe his product for two years. And I definitely don’t disagree with your sentiment, but I like to know which direction the storm is coming from.
I’m going to continue labeling Faber’s bad PR as his biggest, most blatant crime of them all, because Faber definitely hasn’t done anything remotely wrong outside of possibly maybe exploiting the way the internet works, but people gon be mad no matter what unless he can get his PR game pulled together.
Which I think is gonna be a no, so get your beach chairs out - where we’re going, we don’t need pitchforks.
Giving Faber the benefit of the doubt, the best outcome is that he has a product which aligns with the teasing and hyping he’s been forcing for two years, his attempted business ventures thus far have ended poorly, and he’s attempting to buy more time with posts that continue to offer nothing at all, which is… Not good.
The interview could be a continuation of that, or it could be he’s got much better PR skill with a verbal conversation. There is a slight possibility that he’s trying to actually present something in this interview, but I think he would have done that by now.
Regardless, Faber, I now know you’re reading this, and there’s no hard feelings on my part or most people’s parts here. I’m of the opinion you’re running yourself aground, and it’s gonna end poorly if it keeps going as it is. Throw a little meat on the table and you’ll keep the vultures at bay long enough to catch your balance.
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(yeey, poor phrasing, sorry about that)
I meant that at the beginning, when the Faber hype train left the station. It is a bit late to say “I actually didn’t want to revie Bionicle, sorry guys” 2 years later. No wonder people will think this:
He posts as much about Bionicle as Rebel Nature if not more, and these post have ~3 times more likes in average, so it isn’t that unlikely that he gained big chunk of his social profile traction because of Bionicle. Whether it was intentional or not is an other question that we most likely will never get the answer, but the possibility is there.
edit: *is needed.
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This ^.
I don’t think Faber’s evil or malicious, I just don’t think he recognizes the mistakes he’s making. However, I have a problem with people claiming he has done nothing wrong and the community is toxic for interpreting it exactly how Faber intended them to.
I will grant you that, the word “exploitation” is being misused a lot here. I’ve never claimed that he’s exploiting people, just that he’s misleading them.
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Because there is no “product”.
Faber isn’t hyping some mystery object that he’s had behind a curtain all this time, expecting you to buy without seeing. If he was, maybe some annoyance would be justified.
But nobody’s asking you to part with money, time, attention, anything.
Or don’t, since not everyone in the community feels entitled to other people’s work. This Vahi piece is amazing, but I wouldn’t demand another because you don’t do that when someone gives you something for free.
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Which is exactly what I’m supposed to think when I hear talks about corporation deals and see logo designs popping up.
Right, there’s nothing at all. Yep. Definitely nothing…
Or do. Because you’re in the water, headed away from land, and the vultures are circling.
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You’re aware that the meetings about “corporation deals” hadn’t happened yet last year, but you claim a “product” must have existed a two years ago? The former generally precedes the latter, right?
Seriously, why? Why do you feel Faber should do something for you, when you haven’t done anything for him?
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So it’s like this.
2018 Smash Bros. first reveal. Giant logo, shadows of characters, the year of intended release. Seeing that, am I supposed to assume there is no Smash Bros. and that it’s a completely meaningless presentation people made because they felt like it?
Of course not. It’s a presentation meant to represent a future product. Only here I’m supposed to assume it was for ‘inspiration’ for the community and not the promise of a future product.
I think you need to read the latter half of my earlier post. I’ll quote it for you.
I am not demanding Faber produce the end product. But if he wants to maintain any sort of online interest, he’s going to have to say more than ‘wow this vague presentation sure looks cool!’. Any sort of confirmation things are moving is going to buy him time. Even so much as saying things are being worked on; that lets us know there’s a thing and that progress is being attempted. That we haven’t been sitting on the edge of our seats for two years for no reason.
I direct you to all of Faber’s instagram posts ever if you think he hasn’t been at least hinting at the existence of something. That’s how sales works, to drop something like a logo and gain hype for a future release - that’s a promise.
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You misunderstand.
The start of #14B2020 was when Faber decided he wanted to do something to do with BIONICLE, with a goal of having made concrete progress by the next year. (Explained in the 1/4/2020 livestream.) Unfortunately the pandemic meant meetings were postponed.
So if product development goes
- Concept
- Partnership with company
- Product is designed
- Production
then we’ve had
- Concept art
1.5 Delayed meetings that may not have even happened yet
So no, there isn’t a “product” (yet).
“Sales” may imply “dropping logos”, but the converse isn’t automatically true. Logo concepts are also produced before products, as is the case here.
Again, you haven’t actually explained why you’re entitled to see more of Faber’s design process. (I won’t be tedious and quote recent comments.) He isn’t asking for “online interest” and your giving it isn’t a payment that obliges him to do stuff for you.
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Yeah, I’m a graphic designer, I know how the process works.
I also know almost all that process occurs behind closed doors and Faber has absolutely not been dropping assets before they’re finalized. He’s doing this with the intent of gaining interest.
Speaking of process…
You’ve missed a couple parts.
- Concept/Product design
- Sales projection and scope of what markets will be impacted/what companies would be interested
- Narrow the fields as far as possible
- Dummy products are developed or conceptualized to their finest degree
- Meetings and partnerships with interested companies
- Product is produced and marketable versions are created
- Markets are tested - if a hype product, teasers are dropped, trailers are launched, ads are published
- Pre-production alterations to design
- Production and shipping, sales and etc.
So far, we’ve publicly had:
- Markets are tested
- Concept art is made public
So, uh, yes, if he’s trying to get in talks, if he has a logo to drop, if he’s publicly presenting anything at all, there is SOMETHING there. Faber knows far more about business than he does PR, and he absolutely would not go through the routine of hyping for a product without a product. That’s suicide.
There’s something. Whether he’s jumped the gun ahead of 90% of the process is unknown, but something - even if it exists as an idea he’s proposing - exists. If he’d confirm that in any capacity, I think a lot of people would lose their vitriol.
Once again, I’m not. I want him to not get abandoned before his plans come to fruition. If he wants to stay alive, he’ll give some kind of confirmation that this isn’t solely in the spirit of creativity or only as an idea, that the prodding and hinting at corporate shenanigans was all in jest. Heck, he could even confirm it was all for nothing and he’d be better off than what’s he’s doing now, which is spouting air in the general direction of the Bionicle community.
Which, as we’ve confirmed earlier, is needlessly toxic, and is therefore a bad idea.
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Interesting discussion.
I think I’ll call it a day, in the absence of anything new coming up.
(No point going back and forth if we have different interpretations of the same information. 
)
Hopefully @Mesonak reads this thread and is aware of the interview invitation from Faber - I’d love to see that happen ASAP.
Would also be nice to see an acknowledgement that he misread the “OC” on Faber’s image as “ONIO”, because most of the hysterics in his “rant” video seemed to be based on his error there. (For example the title “Christian Faber’s #Biovival Absurdity Reaches New Heights” presumably references that image.) A note in the description / pinned comment would only be fair IMO.
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Yeah, it’s probably better for us to-
Meso hysterically ranted about ONIO? But I thought that was just a joke I…
Good gravy Meso why are you crucifying the man
Like I get people being angry but on the back of multiple posts talking about the vitriol and toxicity of the Bionicle community this seems inopportune
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all of the cast members i see regularly on youtube always seem so needlessly negative
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Pretty sure meso’s rant video was made before this whole discussion. Like, it came out publicly yesterday.
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When your fandom complains about every detail of every new piece of activity, and then proceeds to harass people, I think that’s pretty toxic.
I like the contests as a whole too. But then there’s people bashing TTV for the rules, and yes, Hoseryx was a terrible debacle (one that showed the worst side of this fandom as a whole, and unfortunately was far too loud than it deserved to be).
Have they been largely positive? Yes there’s been creativity, but all I have seen are complaints, and complaints, and complaints about everything.
Until the BIONICLE community cuts off such behavior or comes out against it, instead of piling on and joining it like what happened with Hoseryx, I’m going to believe that, yes, the community is thoroughly toxic. It is filled mostly with adults who whine at any change and expect to be treated the best without giving anything in return. It’s not good behavior whatsoever.
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That’s my band name
What, and ruin a perfectly good 21-year streak?
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