Biovival Discussion (aka Christian Faber's mysterious project)

Essentially what it has evolved into is this show, that is somehow using VR as a filming tool, he released a teaser recently on his facebook.
https://fb.watch/4RohTcZJqc/

there is also this:
https://fb.watch/4Roo8wDxf4/

"Watch 2 of our #rig21studio virtual production cases on demand from the #picturethis20 conference. #RebelNature is taking the first VP steps💡Med PICTURE THIS_20 ON DEMAND bliver du introduceret til fremtidens produktionsform: VIRTUAL PRODUCTION 👉 du kan se de 7 sessions på picturethisconference.com/on-demand

PICTURE THIS_20 er skabt af Nordisk Filmfonden og @visiondenmark - og i samarbejde med Den Danske Filmskole, Filmværkstedet / København og Producentforeningen."
Found this as well:
https://movingpuppets.com/portfolio/rebelnature/

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I am aware of its current status, I have been keeping tabs on it since he publicly talked about it in 2014. However, that does not mean I am convinced that it will actually come out. Until it’s finished and available, there is always a significant chance that something will halt its production.

Best to think of me as a very skeptical investor. I’m sold on the idea, I want to see it come through, but I need more concrete evidence that the risks are minimal. And as much as I hate it, I’m not hedging my bets on Faber.

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This mess is what happens when that one guy in a friend group, who goes too far with pranks, does an April Fools joke.

From my perspective, I think the Horizon Zero Dawn series acts as a very good spiritual successor to BIONICLE. No need to get hyped over the “will he, won’t he” thing going on with Faber when we actually have some franchises taking on the themes and plot points of BIONICLE. Even then, there’s always Transformers, though that is more war-centric, and less hero’s journey-centric.

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Behold, Faber’s new project

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Right, so I’m just going to make a quick post here about the subject matter of a couple deleted posts.

For starters;

I, personally, have zero bias against Faber. I have zero reason to be biased against Faber. I do, however, take some slight issue with the way Faber has been treating/handling the wider Bionicle Community’s interest and/or disappointment with what he’s doing, and the incredibly vague ways he’s been conducting himself in that regard. The root cause of this is ultimately how I feel towards public figures treating others poorly, and I would feel the same way if it was Greg or anyone else in the community. In fact, feel free to ask around - I’m generally the first one to call out that kind of behavior with anyone in the community, including my TTV peers.

I actually don’t appreciate the fact that apparently being a member of TTV and having a non-positive opinion of someone’s actions is apparently just cause to completely dismiss the points I’ve made. I am not part of the "Council" and even if I were, it would be primarily to meme the ever-loving crap out of it because I already do.


Now, obviously this is a touchy subject for some people and way too much personal emotion is being fueled into a discussion about a public figure. I would ask that everyone remain respectful in their discussion amongst each other especially when you disagree with the other person.

I have been lenient for a very long time in the interest of not appearing biased against people who disagree with me, or others, but it is long past the point where I can continue to be lenient with people who, rather than debate, consistently resort to personal attacks or pure spite to get their point across.

This goes for this post, all controversial topics going forward, and in fact every single topic on these boards. Be respectful.

Failure to do so will, if it is judged to be a pattern of behavior, result in suspensions.

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Thank you Kini, I concur with pretty much everything you said.

I want to just chime in with a brief reaffirmation of my standpoint here, even though I’d hope, at this stage, it would be largely unnecessary.

This is, intrinsically, the whole point. Sarcastic remark about complaining aside… nobody gets annoyed at him about Rebel Nature. Why?

If you were being disingenuous, you’d say “because people are just complaining because they want BIONICLE back and they want to hold Faber to some unrealistic standard!” Obviously that isn’t always true; I’m one of the most vocal critics and I don’t really want BIONICLE back in any form (I’d rather it be in the hands of the community). So why, then?

Because Rebel Nature is an independent project, an original IP developed solely by Faber. I am not ignorant that creative projects take time to develop, so I’m aware that it might not come out for a while. I’m not impatient for it because the Rebel Nature project is a new, untested, uncharted property and when it comes out, I plan to give it a fair shot and appraise its merits just like I would any other piece of media. It could be good, it could be bad, but I’ll be fair and give Faber the benefit of the doubt whenever I watch it.

#Biovival could also very well be a new project. It could carry on similar themes to BIONICLE, but be a wholly original property for the modern era. It could be a unique take on similar concepts, with a creative spin on a lot of things which could be appreciated by BIONICLE fans. If this was the case (and if it turns out to be this), I will treat it the exact same way as Rebel Nature. A fair appraisal with an open mind, not concerned with anything from the past which may give me a bias, positive or negative. I have always maintained this point.

The issue comes from the implication that this will be a revival of BIONICLE. Because of this notion, which Faber has used to garner support, likes, and attention for this project, a whole different set of expectations is placed upon the idea. Because the BIONICLE community is diverse and not a hive mind, you have some people who want BIONICLE G1 to come back and be continued by Faber right where we left off. Some people want a continuation far into the future on Spherus Magna. Some people want a G2-style reboot, because that’s the only way Faber can be truly creative in a modern era. Some people feel G2 was way too reliant on nostalgia-pandering, so they want a completely fresh take on the BIONICLE concept. Some people believe LEGO products are the core of the BIONICLE experience, while some prefer the story and worldbuilding, finding the LEGO sets themselves expendable to the overall experience.

These groups are very, very different from each other. There is no way to please them all. Assuming, for a second, that Faber does somehow manage to revive BIONICLE (which is extremely, extremely unlikely, in which case EVERY SINGLE listed group will be heartbroken and angry with him for making people believe his project is BIONICLE), he will then have to contend with the fact that his take will alienate a large amount of the fans he has cultivated who have set their own particular, often unrealistic hopes for what they want the project to be. All this will inevitably lead to a wave of negativity and disappointment, as the thousands of people that follow his posts will either not get the BIONICLE they want, not get the LEGO sets they want, or not get BIONICLE at all in lieu of a spiritual successor.

The solution is not to please everybody; that is ludicrous and impossible, Faber shouldn’t try to do that. The solution is to set expectations accordingly. If this was just a new product being released, or a revival like G2, this wouldn’t be a concern. A product is put out there, and the audience chooses to either like it and engage with it or dislike it and… well, not. However, because the multi-year advertising campaign he has gone on, peoples hopes have been inflated and their expectations raised with every nostalgia-fueled post he shares, implying a return to BIONICLE’s glory days, a time where it was beloved, a time not unlike its peak popularity. Setting clear expectations for what the project’s ultimate goals are would alleviate all of this, because while many would undoubtedly drop off from following it now, he would then be able to cultivate an audience who will give him unimpeded positivity because they’ll be in for what he’s offering, full stop. Nobody will complain about the direction he takes because the only people who choose to engage with it will be okay with it!

I don’t understand the incessant need to be cryptic and vague about core details. If he doesn’t aim to have LEGO sets or ball-jointed figures because of environmental concerns, why not make that clear? Why have followers need to infer that from a cryptically worded sentence on an April 1st livestream? If he doesn’t place much value in a lore-rich “canon” with a defined set of rules but rather an open canvas that inspires creativity ala a theme like Hero Factory, what harm does the project suffer from being clear about that? Why are people left to infer that through guesswork?

If he actually aims to revive BIONICLE as we once knew it, in name, property, and spirit, then why does he pepper his cryptic statements with potential things that would detract from that goal? Statements about how ball joints are forever gone, statements that seem to place more value on fan-works and creativity than a singular story with a multimedia focus, statements about how “the journey is what matters.” If he wants a more open-ended community centric group project of sorts in lieu of a more traditional “Story with toys and movies/books/comics/games,” why are we left to infer that through guesswork? And if he doesn’t and he instead wants to bring it back as it was, why are people left to infer that through guesswork? Why would he continue to make statements that imply the contrary?

Finally, if it’s not BIONICLE and a instead a spiritual successor… why not just say that in those exact terms?

The conclusion I’m forced to draw, unfortunately, is that he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He fears that he will lose enough support from disclosing these things to where this social media campaign will ultimately turn out to be more of a negative than a positive for him. In that hypothetical, the success of the project and leveraging social media interaction would matter more to him than transparency with the fans and community goodwill, because if he committed to one specific idea instead of all of them, he fears the exodus will be too large. IF (and a big IF) that is true, he fails to realize that he’ll inevitably have to face that reality anyways when the product comes out, and it would be overall better for him to curate a dedicated, non-controversy filled audience NOW.

I sincerely hope that isn’t the case, and I look forward to the opportunity to discuss it with him in our interview (if he replies to our email…)

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This may be the longest conversation about essentially nothing to ever exist.

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I think you are soooo right lol

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I’m writing this in response to this whole ordeal and maybe it will explain my recent behaviour Note: Explain not Excuse I’m writing this to explain my growing frustration with how TTV as a unit has decided to handle this Faber ordeal. Also maybe I can somewhat convey to people here that my points aren’t crazy talk

I’m a 21 year old design and product development student on a university(Collage for you Americans) and I’m not claiming to know everything about Product development or design here but I do have experience within this field and have definitely learned a thing or two, from actually working with it through my studies but also because me and some fellow students are currently working on bringing a product to market with help to guide us from our university. I’ve had for the last 5 to 6 months had first hand experience not only with working and developing a concept for a project more than once but also the intricacies of bringing said concept to reality and yet we aren’t that much closer to actually releasing this product concept or selling it to a company for that fact. Even though we’ve spent the last few months gathering info on how things work, such things as costs and more. Still we have no certainty of this product ever actually reaching its goal and that more than anything puts things into perspective.

I’m not expecting anything to come from our venture because in the end, despite how much prelude and work we do for our product it sooner or later is gonna face the hard truth that is business. Something can sound way better on paper and you can stick to that into the end but the business world never offers any guarantees.

Now what does this have to do with anything, well a lot actually the only difference is that Faber has fought for his concept of Rebel Nature for over 6 years and he doesn’t seem to slow down. It is the same thing with Biovival whatever he is doing with that it is going to take time. If you believe Faber got his own studio, game partnership or networking license let alone his company from year 1 of Rebel Nature you are simply misguided. Faber had to put down the same amount of work me and my fellow students have done up until this point and way more to make his projects happen. Let’s be perfectly clear our project hasn’t even touched the surface compared to what Faber has been doing since 2014.

DO YOU GET NOW WHY HEARING MESO ASK ABOUT WHAT KIND OF PRODUCT WE WILL BE SEEING FROM BIOVIVAL IS SO INFURIATING.

His endless nagging about Fabers project not going anywhere. You want something concrete so you have already gotten the amount of concrete you can get from Faber. At this point Faber is not a fortune teller; he can’t know where his spare time project he started last year may lead yet. Because he has no solid ground to make such claims yet all people need to have is patience which he also has stated in his post why do you think he named Patience the fourth virtue? Faber has also stated his intentions with his project in the stream he made kicking it off, he has been open with delays, He made a stream on april 17th 2020 talking about how he was hoping that he could get some commission done through the Snow Corporation. Which most people conveniently forgot about. He has said he wants to explore what it is to be an AI through this project story and he has said that he had meetings planned. All things that have been conveniently forgotten. So don’t come to me and say he hasn’t been transparent.

Now I think anyone will have a hard time explaining their intentions when you flat out ignore the times they try. So next time any of you want to blame Faber for stringing you along, the only one stringing themselves along are the people that expected something out of this preferably yesterday. As well as the people who claim to see the island of Mata Nui and Okoto in the O and C respectively. It’s also the people who claim he is doing nothing while ignoring the parts that he said he was doing something.

I’m not saying I’m a perfect person, I won’t even claim I’m a good person, action speaks louder than words don’t they. So judge me as you may and interpret what I say as you wish. Take anything I say with a grain of salt if you must. I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind here I’m just explaining why I think some of the points made about Fabers project is dumb and agrivateing. You may not intend too or realize but when you act like impatient children asking “are we there yet?” every five minutes you are actually spitting designer everywhere in the face. Don’t you think Faber would love to have a new Bionicle delivered to his doorstep tomorrow?

Tarkur out, maybe for the last time on these boards, we’ll just have to see what happens won’t we

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Read my post. I read yours, and I don’t feel your frustration is justified because you clearly miss why I am annoyed with his handling of the situation. It has nothing to do with the creative process or my understanding of it, or my desire to see like… confidential design documents or anything that he’s not ready to share. You cherrypick several quotes from his April 1st stream that I have no problem with, while I highlight several statements made there that are directly relevant and contradictory to his overall messaging.

It’s about cultivating a following through honesty, not a desire to please everybody when the community you’re appealing to is so fractured and diverse.

Read my post please.

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No I just didn’t realize you had posted

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Fair enough lol

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I was typing my response off site, usually what happens with my huge posts. Partly too check my grammar but also because the new posts that appear while you are typing makes me lose my focus.

As for your post, I don’t really get your destinction between Rebel Nature and Biovival they are both projects Faber is and wants to work on. The former has just been in active development 3 times the laters entire lifetime?

Also the whole hive mind thing, I didn’t mean the community was a literal hive mind. It was just a allegory for how it feels like you sometimes can’t stand on the opposite side of the majority in any consensus. When discussions happen.

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I want to be clear up front that I don’t have any stake in this topic. I’ve mostly just been lurking and have no intentions of getting highly involved in this at all.

But I do think there’s a massive misunderstanding going on here.

Firstly, I do think your argument is correct when it applies to people who are criticizing Faber for not having something to show for his efforts after 2 years. I don’t follow this whole thing closely at all anymore, but I’m more than sure people have probably made comments like that. You are right that the creative process takes time, and you are right that people who are expecting a product need to be patient for that thing to come to fruition.

However, I know for certain this is not what Mesonak is saying at all (and I just read right now that you haven’t had a chance to read his post, so maybe you might see this as well. It was a very well-written post).

I know what it’s like to work on a creative project. I spent 6 months start to finish conceptualizing, iterating, writing, drawing, and publishing a graphic novel. I know the work that goes in to making something like that. But I also learned that the most important thing to have at the start of a project is a clear, concise goal. You simply cannot start researching, conceptualizing, and definitely not teasing something if you can’t yet explain in clear words what that something is or is intended to be.

This is something I had to spend weeks on for my graphic novel project, writing down and explaining to my professor so that it was clear not just to her, but to myself what it was I was making. There’s a lot of soul-searching, parsing through ideas, and explanation that needs to be done beforehand. At the start of the project is when this happens, before anything else.

What Mesonak is specifically arguing is that Faber has not done this step, at least not transparently to his audience. In this scenario, we are the professor and he is the student. He might know what it is he wants to make, but he hasn’t explained it to us well enough for us to have confidence in the work. We’ve asked him “can you explain to us what this is going to be,” and he’s basically said, “I can’t tell you, it’s a surprise.”

Think of it this way: A company advertises that they’re going to be selling this brand-new, awesome, totally amazing health product! A lot of people are into this idea, but what is it? Is it a new kind of medicine? Maybe something for hair health? Dental health? Or maybe it’s a new sort of MRI machine? What if it’s actually an exercise program? The company won’t say, they just tell people, “It’s a health product! If you like health, you’ll want to support this product!” But people who are going bald and want a hair treatment product can’t exactly get behind supporting a revolutionary new toothbrush. It’s not for them, but the company won’t say that it isn’t.

It’s absolutely not a matter of time invested in the project. No one can expect Faber to have anything done on this, even after 2 years. That doesn’t mean we aren’t allowed to ask what it actually is he wants to do.

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I’ll make another proper reply when I’m home in a bit but… yeah, you put it better than I could anyways, lol

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I’d imagine because these core details aren’t yet decided.

Faber has a concept, but the form it takes will depend on what sort of partnerships he forms.

Partnership with LEGO? Physical products might drive the project. Partner with Marvel? The focal point might be a story told through comics. Partner with a less-conventional collaboration tool? Community members might be encouraged to submit their own chapters for a shared setting. etc.

Note that with all the advertising of Rebel Nature, it was only announced to be coming as a TV series when Toon2Tango invested and ordered one.

No, the “professor” is whatever company Faber pitches to. They’re the one marking his work and deciding if he passes.

We’re the kids on the street he chooses to show a few pictures to.

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Then it’s irresponsible for Faber to keep teasing us about this “BIG COOL NEW THING THAT’S TOTALLY BIONICLE-RELATED” before even he knows what it is, and he should have waited until something was set in stone.

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Not gonna start an argument with you because I hear you, very clearly. While I see your point it could also be dangerous for someon like Faber to say that he wish to end this project in a Bionicle reboot. Because A. he can’t guarantee that and B. Stating something like that can cause other problems like fans taking his word as apromise.

Its a double edged sword no matter what side of the coin you look. So for his own good and he probably know this he shouldn’t make those “promises”.

Gonna read Mesos post now if he’s done with the next one.

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Then it’s irresponsible for Faber to keep teasing us about this “BIG COOL NEW THING THAT’S TOTALLY BIONICLE-RELATED” before even he knows what it is, and he should have waited until something was set in stone.

Bionicle is Faber’s most successful project. He clearly desires to work with the IP again, or at least with a spiritual successor to it. He is developing this concept and finding people and companies to pitch it to in real time, which is why he is not clear on whether or not it will literally be Bionicle. The entire purpose of suggesting to us that it could be Bionicle is that he needs his potential investors and partners to see that a potential audience exists which is still invested in the Bionicle world or at least its aesthetic, which Faber must define as a brand associated directly with his name if he wants to secure an investment deal.

He cannot know if his efforts will eventually attract LEGO to license Bionicle to him or if he will have to settle for generating something like Bionicle, but what he does need is a demonstration that the Bionicle brand- his brand- is viable. I understand that this might make you and others feel taken advantage of, but this is what he needs to do because he has no resources and meager name recognition. So far he has secured a Cannes meeting and a TED Talk, and more will come if we are patient.

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ooh i didn’t know that exciting

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