I’ve gotta say I’m a bit confused where this whole “is it a product or is it just inspiring fans” thing came from. I thought the livestream had cleared up that he wanted to create something bionicle related, or inspired by bionicle, albeit in a form we wouldn’t be used to. That implies a product. Was it a vague unscripted ramble, yes, but that sounded like he was trying to say product (just not a product product, whatever that means). What changed?
Not pointing any fingers here, I’m just a bit lost
We are his instagram audience though. He has been making statements specifically to Bionicle fans. We may not be the audience of his Pitch but we ARE the audience of his internet presence and, ultimately, the intended consumer.
In the end this comes down to a fundamental difference in opinion for what Faber’s doing. If you believe Faber is solely trying to show off what little he’s got to show off while preparing his pitches, then I can 100% understand why you’d assume that people are just naive. However, there’s a compelling argument to be made for the fact that Faber is specifically trying to leverage our love of his work, current and previous, to improve said pitches.
Personally, I subscribe to the latter and find the lack of clarity disturbing and ultimately, it turns me away from both Faber and his project. Does it have to be so for everyone? Absolutely not.
But at least meet me in the middle here. There are absolutely justifiable reasons for people to be disappointed or dislike Faber’s approach to community building.
What you are describing is exactly what I have been saying Faber has been doing for well over a year.
However, If i’m going to be used as a metric for why someone else’s product or project should go to market, I want to know what I’m endorsing by proxy.
This is true. You can rarely discuss specifics, however vague phrases like “I’ve been in talks” or “I am aiming to pitch something to a couple of interested parties within the next [insert timeline here]” are generally not covered by contracts like that.
Nondisclosure contracts prevent you from disclosing specifics like “I am a beta tester for a new game called X by Bioware” or something like that. They do not, and generally cannot, prevent you from saying something like “My long term goal is blank”
EDIT: My point with all of this is not to say that anyone who supports Faber is wrong, or that if you do you’re stupid, or anything of the sort. My point is simply that there is a middle ground between “Faber is beyond reproach” and “Faber is the literal devil.”
You’re absolutely allowed to have your personal views and your personal interpretations of things. So is everyone else.
EDIT 2:
I just want to touch on this because there are actually ethical obligations placed upon marketers. As a marketer, you are ultimately working to sway public opinion and influence people - in my view, Faber has done a poor job of properly living up to the standard of care he should have for the fanbase, especially as impressionable and content-starved as it is.
Once again, not everyone has to feel this way. But I will beat this point half to death: EVERYONE has the right to the way they feel, especially when the justifications are as numerous as have been presented here.
Ultimately, everyone just wants this to work out the way they want it to work out. I haven’t met a single person who doesn’t support Faber putting out new Bionicle content, product or not. I have, however, met plenty of people who dislike the way he’s treated the community during the course of the last year to two years. That is just as valid as supporting Faber because you feel like he’s done nothing wrong.
N-no…? That’s not at all how any creative endeavor, or any product for that matter, gets made.
The exact details of the project can change and evolve over time, but they do not influence the nature of the project.
If you have an idea for a story-based project, for example, you don’t immediately go and start setting up pitch meetings with a video game developer, a comic company, a movie studio, and a book publisher. How in the world can you pitch a concept to a company if you don’t know what it is you’re even pitching?
“Hey, I would love to meet with you and pitch you an idea, Mr. Movie Company.”
“Okay, what kind of movie is it? Action movie? Horror movie? Who are the characters?”
“Oh, you see, I actually don’t even know if I want it to be a movie. I was hoping I could just tell you the story concept and you can turn it into a movie for me and we can start there.”
“Goodbye.”
That’s how that pitch would go.
If you have a concept, the very first thing you do is decide what form it’s going to take.
Suppose you have an idea for a story. Does it involve a lot of visual elements, but a need to go into people’s heads? It might work best as a comic or graphic novel. Are the visuals the only important thing? Then it needs to be a movie. What if the only thing that’s important are a character’s inner thoughts and feelings? Then a straight up book is best for that. What if it’s something that really only needs a single moment to tell? Then it’s a drawing, or a painting. Does it need some degree of interaction? Then it’s a game.
Once you know what it is, then you pitch that idea to the proper entities. You simply do not make partnerships first to determine what a project is going to be.
And do note this is likely a case of that company coming to them and not because Faber happened to like the idea of Rebel Nature being a TV show. If Toon2Tango was invested enough in Rebel Nature to want to make a TV show, then they’re the ones who need to make the pitch to make it a TV show. Faber didn’t just go around asking anyone who would listen, “Hey, do you want to do something with my vague shadow of a concept?”
I get you’re trying to say here that Faber is better off not saying anything because it will cause backlash from people who want Bionicle, but the fact is he’s already getting backlash from both sides and he will get it either way if he keeps doing it up until the project has anything to show.
It’s not okay for him to not say anything. He doesn’t need to promise anything, he needs to ditch the effort to rope in absolutely everybody and focus on getting support from people interested in the project for exactly what it is.
His recent discourse about the project has had an aura of implication that there either won’t be an “end result” or the end result isn’t the most important thing, but rather the “journey” to get there. Check out my rant video for a full breakdown as to why, but it’s basically sparked a debate from people as to his intent and whether he’s just looking to inspire creativity or ultimately make a product of some sort.
(The answer is, yes, he absolutely is making a product; he’s said that multiple times in the past and referenced meetings with multiple companies. Any recent posts he’s made that imply the contrary are him either saying something he doesn’t fully intend or perhaps signifying changed plans behind the scenes, etc. Either way, more clarity from him is needed.)
Released a follow-up video updating everybody on Faber’s reply and addressing some general feedback!
Ah, so we have a better idea of what that is than we do Biovival
This only proves that Faber can do a slightly better job with not-Bionicle. Also, there’s less community kickback because that isn’t Bionicle, it’s Rebel Nature, a (hopefully) fully disconnected project.
I wuld have more thoughts but Meso literally said everything I could possibly say on the topic so instead I’ll just quote this:
Let’s call Guinness and get this one on the books and then undo it when someone makes a Metru build topic
Kini is my favorite not-council member
A bunch of kids getting on BZP under the age limit
Time to dox Kini
ok I’ll stop being off topic
After all of this - and adding in that Faber has dumped all sorts of content which typically comes after people know what they’re investing in - I can answer this question.
No. Even from the perspective of product design, I still think your reaction is an overreaction and your argument argumentative. Frankly, if Faber was following the product design path, we wouldn’t get the flipping logo tease as the first indicator of something happening.
“I want to get a commission done with people. I want to explore the idea of being an AI Hero Factory. I want to inspire, spark creativity, collaborate with the community, and shape my concepts.”
None of this says what he’s thinking about, what he’s trying to do, or why he’s even here doing it. He hasn’t been transparent. And being opaque about these things isn’t inherently bad, if you aren’t dumping post-launch resources left and right and hissing at people who question you.
Here’s a more direct example: I’m an individual on the internet who has taken part in an online community about various forms of media. I’ve worked with some of the biggest names in my field, including the largest company of its type in my country. I’m a white adult male with experience in business above all else, and specifically I am in a position to criticize and analyze the practices of other businesses, including ones that hire me. I’m popular wherever I am known, my stature in the white-collar world continues to grow, and I have the power of uninhibited influence in very specific circles. And you’re likely at least somewhat a fan of me.
Who am I?
Elon Musk, Christian Faber, and Kini Hawkeye. Or none of them. You don’t know. There’s stuff in that description, sure, but no way you can actually tell who I am based off what I’ve listed there. All you know is that I’m a person. A white male.
Christian Faber has done the exact same thing, except even more cryptically. It’s about Bionicle, it’s a passion project, it has similarities in resources used with Rebel Nature, it’s important enough to talk to other companies about, it’s gained enough internet points to obtain the influence necessary to schedule a Ted X talk, and there’s even a logo - likely two.
What is it.
You don’t know.
And that’s what I’m upset about, because I’ve been waiting two years to know and I still don’t.
Oh, Faber must have a plan. You don’t schedule business meetings without a plan.
But he’s not telling us even the slightest indication of what it’s about or even if it’s about something tangible. Two years and we still don’t have the remotest idea what Biovival is.
Also, the Ted X talk. I haven’t seen it yet, so there might be some surprise Biovival info included there, but there almost assuredly isn’t, I would guess. Because others who saw it would’ve mentioned it by now, and Faber wouldn’t waste time in his talk about Turning Human Weakness Into Creative Superfuel to make his instagram followers happy about his pet project.
Biovival got him the status to make that talk. It isn’t connected to Biovival in any other way.
Does he have to tell us? Again, the only complaint I’ve seen that seems valid to me would be if he won’t say whether or not he has a “thing”, but the examples you gave definitely show that this is more than just inspirational artwork.
I’m starting to get the feeling that I’m in the minority here, but I have no problem with the way Faber’s been doing this. At no point in the past two years have I felt that my hopes have been let down, or that Faber has been “too” secretive.
He’s definitely been secretive about pretty much the entire thing, but I have never seen any reason to expect anything more. Pretty much the only expectation that I’ve had throughout this whole process is that he is eventually going to do something that is somehow related to Bionicle if everything works out.
This is the funniest thing I have ever read. Truly.
I’d say you probably are in the minority then. Not that it’s a bad thing and if you don’t feel slighted or concerned at all, that’s fine. But as I said previously, for me, if I’m going to be used as a statistic to prove that Faber has support for whatever it is he’s working on, I’d like to know at least a little bit about what it actually is.
Don’t invest in something you know nothing about.
Ultimately all I want to know is where Faber sees this going. If it’s a community initiative to keep Bionicle alive and bring new stories and themes to the forefront via collaboration and worldbuilding, I’m all for it. I’ve been involved in plenty of fandom projects with the same scope. If it’s an actual product Faber wants to put out, then my interest is significantly lessened. But mainly, I don’t like being treated like a child who can’t possibly understand the machinations of Faber, or what it takes to make a project, or should be content just to have anything. The fact remains that if Faber is eventually going to do something that is somehow related to Bionicle if everything works out… well I’d like to know even the barest minimum information about what that something is, just like I wanted to know what RSG’s goal is. Just like I wanted to know what Meso and Eljay’s goals were when pitching the contests. Just like I wanted to know what Crainy’s goal was with QFMN. Just like I wanted to know what the goal was for Illiad, or the myriad hundreds of other fan projects that have cropped up.
I can’t support you if I have no idea what it is you want to do. More to the point, I can’t support you if you don’t respect me or my time enough to tell me even the barest minimum of what it is you want to do. Faber’s gone back and forth between inferring that he wants to develop a product and just wants to inspire people. All I want is clarity, and I don’t think “What is your end goal” is an unreasonable request to make of a content creator.
And if Faber truly doesn’t know or have any idea what shape he wants his #Biovival to take, he should come out and say it. But so far, he hasn’t.
No, the question was if YOU’RE Elon Musk, not if Faber is.
That reminds me.
You losers remember the Iliad reveal video? Where we reminded people we existed?
“Bionicle: Iliad is a small group of members in the Bionicle community who are joined together by one goal; to retell the story of Bionicle through a fully CGI 3d animated television format. This show will be brought to the community via YouTube in a way that is suitable for all audiences.”
All our cards were on the table. Stupid, unfeasible, severely understaffed, all the zeros in the budget went to Ghid’s bank account (all 17 zeros - $000,000,000,000,000.00), but you know who we are and what we’re doing off the bat. No holds barred, no punches pulled. You get what you ‘pay’ for.
Y’know, Faber could do something like this at some point. Less wordy since we don’t need a pitch, but…
I’m definitely not just saying this because Faber’s watching nope nuh uh
If I was Elon we’d be on a way better forum host. One that doesn’t drive me insane every day.
Basically this is all I ask for.
It’s incredibly hard to support someone when they won’t tell you what they want you to support.
When my friends tell me they’re working on something, I expect them to tell me what it is they’re working on so I can get hyped and lend my assistance. This is the same reason why so many content creators reiterate what they’re about on their hundredth or even thousandth video. Because you can’t assume people know what’s going on.
I want to support Faber, I genuinely do. But he hasn’t given me anything to support, and his posts are having the opposite effect. Him deleting them in the face of controversy with no explanation is also troubling… lots of people are referencing NDA’s that may-or-may-not exist (we have zero evidence) and Cease-And-Desist’s that, I can tell you right now, would hold very little legal weight.
Dude’s silent because he wants to be. And if he IS bound by something, he’s also silent on that. Fun Fact, NDA agreements do not exclude you from saying you’re bound by an NDA agreement.
The reason the secret is secret is because the seeker who seeks it will see the secret’s not worth seeking and the secret seeking sneak will appear weak and kill me just kill me
Where we’re going, we don’t need support.
Now please stand aside while I skip backwards down this flight of stairs. And hand me the scissors. I need them to cut the tension on Faber’s instagram.
Thanks for correcting the record on the “OC” image. (Hopefully this community of MOCists etc. will be able to work out what “OC” could mean so that you are less confused. )
I look forward to the interview.
As he said in the original interview request, he wanted to have had certain meetings before talking about the project. We know that those meetings hadn’t happened by 1/4/20, hence no interview or concrete details yet, so the number one question must be “have they happened now?”
Yee because unlike biovival he has been putting most of his main focus from the last 6 years into that. Kinda self explanatory.
It does not I’ll have to refer you to the above.
Yes I don’t know but I’m willing to wait patiently for another 2 years if I must to see if it went anywhere. I’m not sitting here hoping for anything. The only thing this has me worked up over is this continuos antagonizing of Faber from left to right.
To conclude Fabers cryptic posts/project bothers me less than the communitys apparent “impatience”, lack of clarity, not being convincing enough or whatever you want to label it as. If in 2 years we still haven’t got anything new I’ll concede but until then I won’t change my stance on any of this.
The following has nothing to do with the above. Just thought it was interesting that he used his Sea allegory or a similar one here, to the one in his Ted X talk
)