yeah i coulda sworn he was typing for like a half hour lol
Was tempted to post a gif of Kini trying to run and catch up to the posts that were outpacing him lol. Still a good thread.
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Me Erry Time:
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Plugs ears as the bomb is about to go off.
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i am simply innocent monke who likes my plastic robot people. im too young to die
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Honestly I’ve gotta say this has just been a tad depressing. I was hoping Faber might actually say what it is that he’s doing, whether that’s the proposed theory of a VR experience or whatever, but to hear him just waffle on in the same way he has been for the past two years now was just… He had the platform, and… he didn’t use it? He wants to inspire creatives, okay… what does that mean though. He’s preparing the people for mystery, for an exploration. We’re being lead onto a ship and we can’t know the destination.
Is it an island though? Is it a planet? Or are we just getting tossed into the sea.
I don’t think Faber is a charlatan, I think he genuinely wants to benefit this community with whatever he’s doing, but this whole song and dance is getting incredibly weary for me.
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too young, but not too innocent.
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didnt you hear, you have to just get on into the water yourself lmao
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Anyone else have the countdown sound effect from 24 playing in their heads?
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Thank you. I do not disagree with your position there.
Ghid’s position is along those lines, which is why I was disagreeing with him, not you.
Your post about burden of proof being with those who had watched the video made me think that you considered the burden of proof to be on me (or others) to negate someone Ghid’s claim, rather than on him to supply evidence.
It would, but I don’t have any. Nowhere in the interview does Faber explicitly say “I don’t have a product right now”.
But by listening to extended sections of said interview, particularly the first 30 mins or so (as both I and Jerminator have linked in the past), you can understand the development stage he is at, which is one preceding a product existing.
To be clear, I do think Faber wants to bring product(s) of some sort into existence in the future and is working towards that.
I’ve been disagreeing with people who say that those products already exist and therefore should be revealed.
We probably agree on both those points.
Maybe not, but Covid has slowed things down.
As I quoted from the interview, he isn’t set up yet to receive fan submissions to his project, so I find it unlikely that he would be using them in pitches already.
I’m genuinely sorry if it came off this way. But this is a complete misinterpretation of my argument from last (?) week.
I doubt either of us want to get into it again, but just to clear things up:
- We had a discussion about whether people are “entitled” to something from Faber.
- IIRC you suggested by giving your “support” you could be.
- I thought giving “support” didn’t amount to anything concrete, because you didn’t explain what you meant by it for several posts.
- You then gave the example of following his Instagram, which I am happy to accept is concrete and refuted those particular points I had made.
I hope it doesn’t seem like I am one of the people not reading things. Personally I read every word, but I try to keep my responses from ballooning massively, so I try to condense my points and try not to be jumping in every day.
If I’ve ever misrepresented someone’s position, it’s because I’ve misunderstood their post, not out of malice. It’s easy to do - there are almost as many different pro- and anti-Faber positions on here as there are commenters. (And I mean no offense, but your post here misrepresents my points as I explain above, for example.)
I happily agree with this sentiment. Hopefully this essay comes across with the positive tone it has in my head. 
Edit: Oof, this looks much longer than I thought it was now I’ve pressed “send”. 
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I think the issue is that if Faber is still working out the kinks on what the product will be, then he should just say so.
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I’m listening
This, but with the alteration that In my opinion Faber’s practically sold the concept of an end product at this point before we know what it is he’s selling. Were his concept to be nothing more than an additional blog, I’m not going to be upset because I really don’t care that much. But I’m still of the opinion that Faber’s more or less done just that towards his audience and he’s going to need to do some clarifying - real fast, at that - if he wants to retain this following he’s received.
Whether or not you share that is really arguing over semantics ( I know, that coming from me right now is pretty rich) when the real problem both in the argument and for Christian Faber is what his audience thinks will happen. If 50% of people react the way I worry they may, Faber will lose 50% of his fanbase. And to say 50% of the people aware of Biovival are hyped for a new Bionicle is hardly an unfair assumption.
That, for the record, is not my stance.
Since Christian Faber has broken the process of how product design works in some fashion - undeniably he has if he hasn’t conducted business meetings beforehand - he’s made promises in relation to a maybe product clearly before said maybe product even exists or is remotely finalized. And many people are going to be upset by not receiving a product they were teased with, if a product is on the way at all.
A scary thought: could Faber not have an idea finalized on what he’s doing? Could this cryptic hopscotch be him trying to determine what to do?
I’m not supporting this idea, but for the sake of not retreading arguments I’m presenting it. Lots of “I’d like to do” and “thinking about”… Is that why he won’t say anything?
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OK, sorry for the misunderstanding. I still disagree with
but I don’t mean to misrepresent you by summarising your ideas incorrectly.
For a change, let me agree with you on this:
In the interview, at 46:01, Faber talks about wanting to take community direction on the story at least. He suggests that whether Biovival is a reimagining of G1, or something new, could be up to the community once he gets things going.
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If he really doesnt know what he wants to do I for one would appreciate if he were to be more open about it. Maybe actually ask the community what they want. Then again for all I know maybe he has started to run focus groups or something behind closed doors.
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The issue I take with this is that the interview, much like the TEDx Talk, does a not insignificant deal to recontextualise those prior things. It helps give insight into the intent behind them, understand the mind that created them.
To give an example, Faber talks about how he’s asking us to get onto this ship. He doesn’t know where it’s going to be going or what’s going to be there, but he knows it’s amazing because we’ll be there. The issue, right now, is that he’s asked us to join us on this journey but hasn’t told us that it’s leaving from Copenhagen Harbour, berth 12. Personally I’m content to sit back and continue listening, because while he hasn’t told us where to join him on his ship, I’m still building my own. And mine goes to space, wheee. He talks about how Bionicle is about creativity, about how things like Minecraft and Lego in general are us exercising our creative minds, training our brains for the future. He talks about how we shouldn’t obsess over an end destination but instead enjoy the process. At the moment, we can’t see an end destination; the horizon is misty, the sea turbulent with squalls. But that doesn’t erase the in-between.
(I apologise for not using direct quotes, but it’s nearing midnight and I’m not going to search back through it. I think people in this discussion often take things very literally, while I do the opposite with Faber’s metaphors.)
Also uh, stick it on in the background. It doesn’t demand 100% attention. Or completely unbroken flow. I’ve had to pause it at times for 30~ minutes, partially to absorb what’s been discussed but also because I have to focus on something else.
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and like i mentioned earlier, 2x speed is your friend, my friend
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Here’s the actual Faber quote from 46 mins-ish.
YouTube auto-caption, sorry. I bolded some interesting stuff.
Okay now i’m gonna spill a bit of uh… Yeah, okay, I know you’re good at
figuring out riddles so now I’m gonna say something: I wanna make it your choice if you want to relive the story that has been, if you want to see what happens. If that’s actually just myth, and what about reality? Because what we have seen is myth - it’s like reading an old book about something that happened many years ago. What if you went into that action yourself and actually you knew all the myth but you went in there yourself? And so you know, okay, that was what it was about so imagine all the stuff you’ve seen in bionicle is somebody who’s depicted or tried to
sort of envision what actually happened, but they were not there themselves. So now my really big dream is to be able to give you the choice where to start. I don’t… I’m not gonna say so much more
Edit: Tidying
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Oh…
That’s bad.
Haha, but no. I’m going to watch it at the speed it was originally spoken in, whenever I have three hours I know I can dedicate to it. If it’s going to be a background element in any capacity (it likely will be) I’m going to take as long as it needs to to listen to it properly.
I’d like to know if the ship has any leaks or, if what Votuko just said is true, if he’s even finished building it first.
Faber’s asking us to go and journey across the sea in a boat that might not exist. I’m not asking for port, destination, type of vessel, whether or not there will be catering, or if I’m going to have to mop, but I’d like to know if this boat exists and if it’s seaworthy. I know he has ideas, ambitions, end goals, and creativity through the roof, but does he have a plan?
The answer seems to be yes, but is never more than seeming to be because everything he’s ever said can be interpreted multiple ways, and he’s never clarified anything.
Minecraft was created with a specific end goal in mind, that being a video game about reassembling the world in large cubes and interacting in that ever-changing environment.
LEGO was created with the intention of producing and selling children’s toys as a means to provide for the creator’s family during times of financial difficulty.
What we want - what nobody can deny will be beneficial to Faber and to all of the community watching him - is for Faber to answer one, extremely simple question without any sort of cryptic hidden messages, secrets, puzzles, double meanings, or anything intentional or otherwise:
Do you, Faber, have a plan?
Do you know what you’re trying to achieve?
Do you know where we’re going, or are we lost?
One question worded three different ways. Two answers: Yes I Do, or No I Don’t. This will hurt nothing and help everything. This will imply - no, it will directly state - Faber has a definite plan, a direction, and to tailor it to the folk here insisting he not be badgered about his end product doesn’t make him admit a single thing outside of something he should’ve already said. It’s a 100% reasonable question for me to ask and it’s 100% unreasonable for him not to answer.
And I know he reads this topic.
That’s my plan. I just really haven’t had the time, much to the disappointment of several people here. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; as soon as I can I’m watching it.
This seems to say…
Okay actually I’m not going to attempt to give a direct interpretation of this because Faber’s obviously made this some kind of riddle and the ‘you’ he’s referring to is clearly not me, because I don’t understand. The structure of the sentences implies Faber’s trying to provide a radical new perspective akin to actually being present for the events taking place in the story he’s attempting to create, but this is still nothing more than ‘I have a dream, a really big dream.’
Unless the riddle contains something more definite? This is an excellent quote from what he’s said and warrants more discussion over. Obviously this was what Faber wanted as a takeaway from the interview and it’d be an injustice to ourselves not to attempt to unravel it so Faber can see we’re actually horrible at riddles.
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I tend to agree with Votuko in this conversation especially with this statement:
Because Faber didn’t have a product going into the project, development time has been going slow he has stated in his own april 1st stream that april 1st 2020 was the proper starting point and the prior year had been testing the waters and looking for interest. Meaning he would have about a years worth of work some of which was delayed. I personally don’t think its logical that he has a ready made product to reveal tomorrow nor do I think he is trying to hide it from us for dear life, because of the above.
While I don’t agree on everything Kini said I do accept and respect his stance on this matter. Most noteably I want to tackle these specific points.
While yes as your evidence suggests Faber has used references to call to arms in his posts, I also see that you don’t feel entiteled to get a product from him. However let me point you to a critiscm made earlier in this post:
more specifically I want to draw attention to this part:
Now I this isn’t targeted to you Kini but as Ghid has shown here there are people that hold the opinion that Faber owes them something or that he has been swindeling people.
Now I personally don’t agree with this stance for several reasons, one of which has its ground in what faber has actually said, He wants to do vr stuff, he is looking into nfts, he wants to use the global goals, he has used the data from his post to show that their is an intrest for the mystery of bionicle in pitches and he has also stated several times where he has to keep shut about certain things. I personally feel I got a good idea of where he is going from listening to him in this interview. From what I’ve heard faber say.
Faber wants to use bionicles mystery and turn it up by 200%, he wants to show that there is interest in bionicles mystery and that it could be for an older audience. He wants to use vr and the global goals to tell a story of the balancing act between human, nature and technology. Even though that sounds like rebel nature he has also expressed wants to explore other themes with in that balancing act and in so making biovival different from rebel nature. With the only thing connecting them is that they are both Biological chronicles. Faber has also stated that if this ends up bionicle it won’t be a continuation but something new. He has also said that he currently don’t have plans for toys or products in the sense of g1 and g2 but he is not oppose of it and if it happens those products wont be the same as the products of g1.
As you can see Faber has done several connected statements about what he wants to do and his intentions and all of it is taken from the interview. That apparently didn’t yield any new info.
Here is some of the quotes I’ve used in chronological order:
“So when generation 2 came out it was…. yee… it was right point when I stopped at the agency and that was for many, many reasons but… but of course eh yee I don’t want to say anything bad things about Generation 2 but… but I can just say that it was too early when I… In my book it was too commercialized and it lacked all the mystery, I’m using a word that you probably will remember it was lagging the mystery, it was lagging the cryptic part of it.”
“So I was sorta saying I’m outside LEGO now… eh its 20 years anniversary right in a little while, I was sorta how, how, how do I, know stir up something that I can, that I can, that I can you know I’m one man I don’t have the direct contact to LEGO anymore. I was totally outside LEGO, I didn’t work for anything, any counter, anything. I was doing something on my own. So i just wanted as a fan to sorta say I want to start something that can gain so much mystery and so on, that I can actually go to have these meetings that’s while your sorta… it is a really long process to get something like this up and running and I’ve never tried it before to restart something in that way.”
“But I can comment on the output of it of course, I… I can’t comment on the actuall process of it. That would be a bit… since I’m working on new stuff for… Eljay cuts off asking if it has to do with jeopardizing future/current relations… um Yeah.”
“I had contacts at LEGO and I wanted to show them that the mystery, the urge for mystery was still out there and all the fans were now in a different age group. So they were so ready get something that’s much more, you know it’s much more that age it’s not for kids, but I wanted to have the next thing come out be… eh it’s a puzzle you have to dive into, you have to, you have to get a lot of hints in different ways you have to put it together yourself and be part of it in a total different way.”
“And if there was a product it would be something totally different, that took it to the next level. So all these experiments has been aiming towards that.”
“I don’t want to be force fed some marketing story, I want to try and make the puzzle myself and try to add stuff. So its really out of a lot of respect for everyone who is doing Bionicle now, that they need a playground that’s much more… eh… em much more amazing and em… endless and so on.”
“If generation 3 is coming out it has to have amazing potential, in new ways”
“But the story is not lost the past is not lost but its the past and I’m just say, I’m just I’m just saying I don’t want to make like a rerun. I can only say, I want to quote an old song, sorry its a bit taggy but “If you love somebody, set them free””
“It’s really about this has to evolve to not become something that I played, you know I’m a dad now but I played with this as a kid isn’t it cool son, and they are like saying, “Ok, yee does it do anything?”, “No no, you can turn this gear on the back and it swings the arm, turns up and down, isn’t it amazing?”.”
“Ok now I’m going to spill a bit of uh yee. I know you are really good at figuring out riddles so now I’m going to say something, I want to make it your choice if you want to relive the story that has been if you wanna see happens if that’s just myth and what about reality. Because what we have seen is myth its like reading an old book about something that happened many years ago,. What if you went into that action yourself and actually knew all the myth but you went in there and saw that is what it was about…… My big dream is to let you decide where to start, I’m not gonna say so much more.”
“that has to do with a really awkward post edit last week, if you think about those two round… Meso interjects: “The one with the two circles?”… um if you think what that could be you might get a bit of the riddle… Meso again: “I, I think I have a theory”… umhm… Meso: “this is the theory, I’m thinking virtual reality, am I close?”… um yeah, I’m working together with a company called unity.”
“I will learn from the past but not repeat it directly”
“Let’s say that Bionicle is being repurposed.”
“Could you imagine something that was a bit closer to what we are needing, you know the Global goals. I’m not saying this is going to be a political thing. I’m just saying that I think anything creative has to point in a situation, in a direction that looks at the actual facts on the planet and bionicle has been part of saving LEGO. So I’m just saying, I don’t know what this is going to mean directly but repurposing creativity is my manthra from now on. I don’t want to make entertainment, I don’t want to make you know toys, of course. I want to make people acutely aware of how their creativity can affect their own life and reality.”
“I’m not saying exactly how this should work but I just think that people have to learn how to engineer their own reality and I think Bionicle, the building bricks of LEGO and anything you know. If you look at a lot of stuff you know LEGO is trying to do you know bricks out of different materials that can be reused. the most reusable thing about LEGO is that, it is that you know you never throw it out because you know that it has a value in the way it works. You know it’s like a Biological substance that is reused all the time and it’s not thrown out and I’ve heard someone say on a very high level that in 30 years people will ask about you know “Did you throw things out?” you know “Why did you do that?” I think we are moving towards not throwing away anything at all and everything is gonna be repurposed and that’s why I wanna see if i can repurpose a story. so this is really, really a first in the world. I guess and its sorta a way to recycle for a purpose and I have some pretty strong tools at my disposal right now. So prepare yourselves.”
“I think this is a piece of pop culture that can be reignited In new ways.”
I do want to include more qoutes since I know there is still alot more to cover but its getting really late for me and, I do have lectures and meetings and such tomorrow so I’ll have to cut it there. If you want I can always post more quotes tomorrow.
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