Brickonicle G3 Elements Poll [Worldbuilding] [Pitch]

i would just like to say that i hope you and the other cast members take into consideration that Onua’s nature speaking power don’t have to be tied to his elemental power.

one of the good things with Bionicle is that an interesting abilitiy don’t have to allways be related to their elemental powers (and you don’t even have to bring back mask powers even to use such an idea, you could make it so that their special abilities was gifted to them when they became Toa)

Really? I think of clay, or marble, or paint before metal, and I’ve asked others, no one said metal.

I know I’m repeating myself here, but I find iron/metal doesn’t really fit the theming of the other elements,

Thanks for saving me the time of typing that.

Someone brought that up before, and I stated it felt rather contrived to allow for iron, you want an substance that looks and acts exactly like metal but isn’t able to be controlled by the toa of metal, well that’s awfully convenient now ain’t it?

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Iḿ not sure if anyone has posted this yet or if I am even allowed to promote this from another bionicle site but I found a cool topic on BZ Power; BIONICLEsector01
It basically explains all of the elements in a sort of periodic table.

What is curious is that they have stone as a secondary element in their version of the table with five elements in each column.

Didn’t we already end this…? On a lesser note, Iron is only one of several metals, so the existence of a metal that isn’t iron being used in people doesn’t seem too contrived.

Maybe this is nostalgia talking, but I really don’t like the idea of cutting Kopaka or Pohatu. I feel like there are plenty of ways you can differentiate between Earth and Stone or Earth and Sand or whatever.

The only element I’m strongly against is Psionics. I don’t think that it made any sense as a G1 element and I don’t like the idea of having it now.

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After Kahi’s post, I don’t know if I should post my thoughts here or start my own topic… I’ll post here, I guess, since it seems like this is where most of the discussion is happening

Man, this thread gives me huge throwbacks to when I would lurk and post on the Elements Forum on BZP~

Anyway, to just throw in my two cents here (and fair warning, some of them are unpopular opinions): If G3 does keep the same cast of the Toa Mata, I would be fine if Pohatu’s element was changed to Iron. I know it’s already been discussed at length here before, but if one of the limiting reasons to Pohatu using it as his element is because there’s no pure iron in the environment and what is there is brittle iron ore, he could create some himself. It seems like the whole thing about Toa being able to create their elements as well as control it was forgotten at times here? In addition, Iron encompasses all metals, not just the namesake one ^^;

Otherwise, I think I’d prefer a new cast of characters especially if the main elements list and/or the powers under each element change. Major unpopular opinion, I’d kind of like to see a cast of eight Toa but that’s a whole can of beans for another topic

On the actual topic of elements though. So, my approach has always been a mythological or comic-book-esque approach to elements and elemental powers rather than a science based one. That said, I’d be fine with Earth and Stone merging into one element since they both deal with… well… the earth and ground-based substances.

I think Water and Ice should be kept separate. Putting aside the H2O thing, I feel like the connotations and power sets are distinct from one another. The element of Ice creates and controls snow and ice; their users are tolerant of extremely low temperatures (on that note, are the sub-powers for each element being retained? Like Earth has night-vision and sensitivity to vibrations, Water is more agile underwater, etc?). Whereas the element of Water creates and controls water. Taken especially with the tropical setting, I picture a sea-faring folk with values in sociality and community which would be pretty different from say a more reclusive high-mountain ice village.

Last aside, there was talk about Heat as an element because of the Water/Ice debate. But Toa of Fire can create and control heat too in addition to their control over flames. Remember when Vakama absorbed all the heat in a room when confronting that fire elemental? Or when Lhikan located the Nui Stone in Tuyet’s home by sensing its heat? Just a friendly reminder ^^;

I liked Psionics as an element in G1, personally. Thought of it as an element of the mind or consciousness. As far as elements being forces of nature, the mind can be a pretty powerful one. I also just liked it because it opened the potential for a Jean Grey type of character/power set

Edited for Double Post - Waj

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I’m just going to focus on this, what are the biomechanical beings made from then?
Protodermis? Why does metallic protodermis not count as a metal?

Would that not be confusing?
‘look, we know the bionicles look like they’re made of metal, but in order for iron to not be capable of genocide we have to have a substance identical to metal but toa of metal can’t control’.
Feels really contrived to me.

Yeah, I agree with pretty everything you just said.

Honestly I always found ‘mind bullets’ being an element rather silly, it would make far more sense as a mask power.

Uhh, since when has the mind Been a force of nature?

I know you already know this, but just in case others don’t: metallic protodermis does count metal.

Yeah, what he said.

This is a great question.

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Metallic protodermis does count; hence why Toa of Iron (and Magnetism) were purged by the Brotherhood. Depending on if protodermis is retained in G3 and what it’s properties are will dictate if Iron (or Magnetism) can control it.

I think we could keep the beings made of metal/metal-like substances and keep Iron in. Are the Toa of Iron kind of OP and capable of genocide? Sure. But really any Toa of any element could be if they really wanted to. That’s why they had the Toa Code and all that.

I half meant that as a joke. More seriously, I accepted it as “mind over matter” or a “mind, body, spirit” sort of principle when it was introduced in G1 (and why I would’ve thought Spirit as an element would have been interesting to explore). Though, I ultimately understand why others didn’t like Psionics as an element.

There’s a difference between being able to burn, crush, drown, or slash people to death, and being able to rip their bodies apart with your mind.

But if they can’t control it you run into this problem:

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Just curious, are you fine with Magnetism as an element? If so, Iron and Magnetism would be roughly at the same power level and on a purely power level criterion, I think Iron is fine the way it is.

In any case, and I’m just musing here, we could lump Iron in with Earth as well if we want to avoid splitting hairs like G1 did with Stone and Earth. Though, if Earth included its G1 powers plus Stone, Iron and presumably Sand… Earth starts to look pretty OP too.

That conversation happened near the beginning of this topic, it was generally agreed that iron and magnetism should be combined do to their similar power sets.

I sarcastically pointed this out earlier, personally I don’t see the need to combine earth and stone, especially if Var’s changes to earth are applied.

Oh yeah, no, that’s outrageous.

… I was going to say something here, but I don’t think I have to explain what’s wrong with that.

Rock is dirt is sand, not sure how that would make the element any stronger. Earth was already able to create fault lines and tremors, not sure how adding kinesis of rocks goes too far.
I’m not a fan of being able to control refined metals in general, it really breaks from the other elements, whereas fire or ice are natural elements, metal is very much an industrial concept.

Dirt and plants clearly have more in common than dirt and rocks.

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I mean… Most dirt is decomposed plant matter, while rocks are mineral deposits… but I get your point. Honestly, I’m kinda ambivalent to Var’s changes to earth, I don’t think it and stone need to be combined regardless of whether or not Var’s changes are inacted.

Ahh, okay. I spent the past four days trying to catch up on this thread, so that slipped my mind, I guess ^^;

What would the element be called then if they were joined together?

Hmm… I don’t know if I like Var’s changes to Earth though. If anything, I’d keep Stone and switch Earth for Jungle for the main elements given the changes.

I moreso meant the hypothetical addition of Iron to Earth.

Not quite…

Earth has literally exactly as much to do with jungle as it does rock.

~W12~

I don’t know that anyone brought that up…

I mean, that’s basically what the changes do…

Hey scientific validation! Sorta…

Once you start bringing science into the discussion none of this makes sense.

I mean conceptually, earth has more in common with stone than jungle.

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No, things make sense, you just end up spending three days talking about geology.

Conceptually stone and earth don’t really have to be the same. People’s main problem is that earth and stone have similar power sets, but they don’t have to, if you think of earth as a liquid, with waves of dirt and such, the power sets are completely different.

I’m a stickler for names and categories, which is why I asked about the name for [Iron+Magnetism] lol

On Var’s point tho. That’d make me want to rename Stone to Earth then and Var’s-Earth to just be called Jungle or the like. But that’s just my nitpicking.

(Actually, to start another topic. I personally would like if Jungle’s name was changed to Forest. If Jungle has mastery over all plantlife, I feel like Forest as a name is more inclusive of all kinds of plants than Jungle is. Again, personal nitpick though.)

I actually do like Stone and Earth as separate, so if they’re combined or not, I’m fine. Though, I don’t think I could get behind Earth and Jungle being combined.