‘How did they get too much power?’ Umm, by Accident? Obviously. The Great Beings aren’t entirely known for having a perfect tract record when it comes to creating beings and races. This kind of incident would honestly just seem par for the course.
[Sigh] Look, I provided potential depth based on the Elements,and I provided a potential explanation for why they are to begin with. Is it confusing? Maybe, but its not a huge issue
Exactly. So we can change them, further develop the world, and integrate them in a much more fundamental way.[quote=“SirKeksalot, post:446, topic:33898”]
No they don’t. Merging 2 elements that don’t belong together doesn’t improve the narrative. Things like separating the tribes into rival factions, which creates a dynamic that directly affects the plot, does open new venues. What you recommend does not.
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Fair enough. My apologies, I was thinking in context of the topic I just made housing my concept of a G3, I misread the notification and thought I was replying in that context.
No, the element changes don’t create anything new, but they do remove the conflict between Earth and Stone, and gives a more diverse power set to Onua. Sure, Nature and Earth aren’t too similar, but the idea is to completely redefine it. Think of it as a new element as opposed to a modification of Earth and The Green.
But what if G3 lore doesn’t have the GB’s? It would certainly make it more interesting, given that they’re a part of the lore that didn’t really define Bionicle and whose absence would make the world-building less predictable.
I mean, how does that even work? What would have made it too strong? I’m not referring to the process, I’m referring to the system itself. Why Earth and not Air? The Earth/Stone power sets aren’t even that different.
Actually, since G3 is supposed to be easier for newcomers to get into, yeah, confusing stuff is bad.
Oh, that makes more sense. Maybe I’ll read that thread later.
I get the objective. What I don’t get is why THAT has to be the redefinition. It’s like combining Fire and Ice–they’re two sorta related concepts, but in terms of controlling parts of the natural world, they don’t make sense when paired together.
No, the world is, and the elements are core to that.
Well, G2 didn’t because it sucked but G1 totally went into the cultural aspects of each element, and while they may have never specifically stated the inner workings and limitations, there were definitely limitations shown. And really that’s probably the best way to do It, who wants to go through hours of exposition explain it how their powers work?
Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis.
Also this. Nature-Earth would take some explaining because it wouldn’t be that obvious. Stone-Earth is a valid proposition because it doesn’t have this problem. You put it in the lore, and everyone just goes, “Oh, so rock powers” and moves on because it makes sense. But with Nature-Earth, a good chunk of people will question why plants are part of Earth and not their own element.
Sure. And it doesn’t have to be, it was merely a suggestion, which many personally enjoy.
It’s funny you should mention this. It’s one of my long-held opinions that a toa of Fire should be able to control temperature altogether. If they can warm it up, they can cool it down as well. Since Cold doesn’t exist, and is merely an absence of Heat, I don’t see the point of having it as a power set separate from the Toa of Fire/Heat 
[Groan] Ok, the Stone/Earth debate is like debating how the powers of Wonder Woman and Shazam are different from Superman’s. By the end of the day? they’re not that different. But do you change their whole power sets or even most of them on that basis, or do you work on developing them as original characters with wholly unique stories?
So superpowered beings on teams from time to time have similar superpowers. So what?
… And as for the whole Earth and Stone divided power thing… NO. I DO NOT know how that all works out. Its one of the great mysteries of Bionicle, right up there with how the Toa Mata were created and the Shadowed One’s true name!
Its go back at Avatar as an example of a world and setting which integrated its elemental abilities into the world building (as it should and would have happend with any society if they lived with what we consider super human abilities).
Make the element of Fire actually mean something to the tribal people that control it.Have a point of origin for it, the way to control it, the limitations of it, the cultural and social impilations of using said powers, the way refine it and mix it with other elemental teachings.
Same goes with the rest of picked elements.
Hmm I definitely would like to see sub-divisions to respective elements (example: Earth can control sand, stone, Magma, Iron etc.)
I would like to keep Ice and Water separate because their natures are very different and I think that was reflected well through their characters. With that said though they COULD be lumped together and for (the sake of consistency with this it’d be better if done)
Fire could maybe could use Plasma as a sub-ability
Air I don’t know
I WOULD like to see Lightning as it’s own element because that’d be neat but…I can’t see his character being anything other than a mix of Tahu and Lewa.
Gravity would be cool but that’d be kind of OP
Psionics and Sonics don’t really fit in for an elemental team I think they’d be cool Side characters IMHO.
So I’d rather see Jungle/Plantlife and maybe make him the stealth guy.
The way I see It each Toa serves a purpose
Fire- (the Fighter/Warrior/Leader) ; Weakness: Pride, Stubborn, Rash
Water: (the Perceptive one/Peacemaker) ; Weakness: Inability to be aggressive except when provoked
Air: (Witty one, Adaptive and Playful); Weakness: Sometimes drops his/her guard
Earth: (The Muscle) Tough, Unmoving, Wise ; Weakness: Takes things head on
Jungle: (the Stealthy one) ; Weakness: Wanders off <<basically this is Kopaka 2.0
so for the 6th Toa the only ones that would be left would be Sonics, Lightning and Gravity (or Light/Shadow)
So if I had to pick I’d choose Lightning (maybe as like the youngest in the group but someone who shows potential and could shape up to be the next leader)
Make a new IP.
UGH again with the conflation between science and myth, sure, from a scientific standpoint fire and ice are the same, but as elements they are clearly different.
Who is this “many” you speak of?
Ice deals more with the actual substance of ice itself, rather than just coldness.
This is actually a really poor example because superheroes aren’t assigned different sections of nature to control. They just get whatever ability set is cool for a certain theme. They’re like MOBA characters; a lot are bound to have big AoE abilities, but they can all still have them and be unique characters with their own gimmicks.
With elemental powers, it’s different. The users need to have separate sets of capabilities, and shouldn’t overlap. Otherwise, they’re not really “elemental” powers, are they?
Except those could have a conceivable answer. They’re not part of an already confusing system. Even if they’re never revealed, like TSO’s name, there’s still room for one to imagine or just brush off the question due to a lack of real importance. Even Mata Nui’s true nature culminated in a good payoff; he was revealed to be a giant robot from one of them there Chinese cartoons. With this, it’s different. The system should be established first, THEN explanations should be made. Otherwise, we get this, where we don’t have a fun mystery, just a confusing headache.
FIRE AND PLASMA ARE DIFFERENT!
LIGHTNING IS MADE OF PLASMA! How many times do we have to say this, every time someone new shows up we have to spend ten posts going back over old news!
Bah, just scrap 90% of all the elements and have Fire, Ice, Candy and Slime…totally origigigial, copywrighted by moi.
Here is an example of a show that stole my idea: Totally 100% a copy of my ideas.
It’s more the other way around, fire deals more with flames, while ice deals more in freezing things.
Drastically changing the framework of how the elements work, thus rewriting the meta and drastically changing the line.
Why do elements need subdivisions? It just needlessly boils down the g1 element list into needlessly complex elements in g3.
Yah they are different but I really don’t think we need Plasma AND Fire in two different Toa, my reasoning for this is merely so that Fire can have a Sub-ability (that is not Lightning because then it’d feel like a Rip-off of Avatar). Alternatively it could just be Fire has NO sub-ability but it’s intensity and strength can make up for that.
I’m fully aware of the science behind Fire vs. Plasma. But to a kid I don’t really think it’d matter much.
So Bionicle is ALL about the powers, now? Nothing to say about character and story? Why can’t it be an oddity they explore and explain later on?
My origin could also have a conceivable answer [like maybe the same way Toa first got their powers in G1?]
I’m sorry, it’s just the fire/lightning/plasma thing has been discussed like ten times now because new people keep coming to the topic, skipping all of the previous discussion, and just started throwing out ideas.
Not if there’s time to provide growth for their characters. This worked really well in Avatar. I’m not suggesting that they all come out with there full arsenal ready to go. It’d be something the Toa gradually discover they can do and would be an example of their continuous mastery of the elements. And some them could be circumstantial just to maintain consistent power levels between the Toa. (eg. Use of Iron or Metal.)
(Example: In year 2 Onua Discovers he can use iron from the earth to block an incoming attack or he can heat up the earth to create a pit of molten lava, trapping some fiery rahi or something)
This!
Despite us all showcasing it all complex, it doesnt need to start all complex. It starts with the basics, then expand upon the basics even further as the story goes on.