I was speculating about the absorption ability that Toa possess for each of their respective elements and came up with a question regarding it. See, that particular power makes plenty of sense with Toa with elements like Fire wherein there’s actually something that they can absorb to create a deficit(i.e. Toa of fire absorbs heat to make the room colder, we’ve seen this in the story as I recall). But then it becomes kind of odd when you consider what, for instance, a Toa of Ice would actually have to be doing when they absorb their element physically.
Of course cold is the deficit of heat, so in order to create a deficit of cold you’d actually have to be creating heat. But then that means a Toa of Ice could potentially teach them self to be a Toa of Fire instead? Does that make sense in canon as a possibility, or is there something that keeps this from happening? Perhaps they literally just absorb physical frost?
Secondly, what about elements like plantlife or stone? Does absorption in their case mean killing all of the plants in their vicinity/crumbling all of the rock formations?
I was thinking that maybe weirdness with that ability is mitigated by how they don’t directly control the environment, but rather elemental energy that affects it, but don’t have any solid backing to that.
Also I realize that these weren’t things you’ve been directly responsible for establishing; the basic element roster was defined before you joined the team. But I figured that you might have a more decisive answer than what I can find. Thanks in advance.
As far as I understand it, the absorption is based on energy, not the Element itself: after all, when Gali was recharging after curing Tahu, she did not cause drought in the nearby area.
As for Toa of Ice, I theorize that they cannot set things on fire (i.e. learn to be Toa of Fire). Basically, Toa of Ice can absorb Cold to raise the temperature to the zero degrees, but not higher. Same, theoretically, with Toa of Fire, who can absorb the Heat from the environment, bringing it to zero, potentially being able to freeze water, but only by the virtue of absorbing heat. I hope Greg has a more cohesive explanation.
The first chapter of Web of the Visorak features Vakama literally absorbing the fire of the fire entity. If books aren’t available, you can also see chapter 4 of Reign of Shadows where the Alternate Teridax, a creature of Light, absorbs all the light in the vicinity.
I know you mean well, Mugbearer, but if you wish to offer your opinion on these things, please know the subject well beforehand.
First of all, why do you think that whatever I say contradicts the novels?
Second of all, it’s rude to assume I do not know the subject “well” and being so condescending to a stranger on the Internet.
In their post, among other things the OP spoke about Toa of Fire and Toa of Ice creating the deficit of heat/cold, which, as I see it, is a part of their Elemental Power, but has more to do with heat/cold energy. It does not mean that a Toa of Fire cannot absorb flames, or Toa of Ice cannot absorb, well, ice.
And I have only touched upon Toa of Fire and Toa of Ice having this dynamic because I cannot speak reliably about other Elemental Powers. Also, the source-material, aka novels, are not a very reliable in figuring out those codependencies, and sometimes contradict themselves.
Toa, or any creature of Light, that has power over it, still can absorb Elemental Light to create darkness, I don’t dispute that, and you bringing this up is not relevant to the subject of Fire/Ice dynamics that I brought up.
I do not mean to be condescending, and I do not mean to be rude. You mean very well, and I could see myself doing the same on occasion.
But allow me to include an excerpt below, as I have dusted off Web of Visorak for the occasion.
Does that make sense? Now, Vakama wouldn’t actually control the Ice nor the said energy backing it. He simply caused ice to form thanks to the reduced temperature.
What’s more it is described as being the same thing as the Light absorption. One can reasonably assume other elements have their own versions of such a trait.
Once again, please do not take this as antagonism; I have not meant it as such. But from what I can tell, this is something similar to the Velika thing in the Karzahni topic.
That’s an interesting thought. I want to lean towards yes, because absorbing elements have been known to affect outside things, like the grass dying when Light Teridax absorbed light.
I have never said anything opposite to that statement though.
As my spouse pointed out when we talked about it, perhaps the Toa can learn some “techniques” and “tricks” from other Elemental Powers, much like Benders from Avatar: The Last Airbender. Which may include absorbing heat or cold from the area to indirectly control temperature, as an example.
And perhaps they can learn. But as it stands, they cannot. Nothing has pointed to Toa learning from other Toa, and there would be no reason for the Great Beings to develop them so they can assume the programming of other nanotech.
The idea of Toa learning powers from other Toa is not established in canon, nor is there anything to suggest it. But even if that is a question you’d like to posit to Greg, that is a discussion for another topic.
Now…
It seems that there was some manner of misunderstanding along the way. Looking back at the discussion, I see that our interests conflicted somewhat in trying to provide a satisfying response to this question, with your response rooted more in what I felt to be theory while mine has its foundation in the official story. I have to have misunderstood what you were trying to communicate. Perhaps it would have been best for me to stay out of it, but I now see there was no need at all for some of the things I said in my earlier messages–especially since reading your messages in this new light seems to indicate we may have been actually arguing the same points in some cases. I jumped the gun at the opportunity to provide a response already established in-canon. To that end, I sincerely am sorry for the accusations I wrote and for my part in derailing this topic.
I did not say they learn powers. Just tricks and techniques. Like benders in Avatar: The Last Airbender. A firebender cannot bend water, but he can learn from the techniques used by waterbenders to, for example, redirect lightnings (lightning is one of variations of firebending in show’s universe).
Anyway, this conversation have lasted longer than it needed to be, and I am glad to cease it. Have a good day.
It’s an interesting question on a number of levels. For example – when a Toa of Fire absorbs fire, he is essentially absorbing energy. But a Toa of Ice would not be absorbing anything, he would be CREATING energy. And is there a limit to how much energy he could create? When does it “stop” being cold? Would he only be able to absorb energy until the temperature reaches 32 F?
Heh it seems you’re in the same boat as the rest of us.
I wish we had some kind of landmark, like maybe the freezing point of liquid protodermis(silver sea stuff, not energized). Then we’d understand what kind of environment the GBs intended these powers to be used in and could actually say what’s “cold” or “hot” relatively speaking.
This is certainly an interesting question. It makes sense that absorbing Fire (a.k.a. heat) would lead to freezing over, but would absorbing cold do the same? Can “removing” cold actually add energy/heat to an environment, or does it just make it colder? It’s a tough question, because normally we add things to something else in order to heat it, rather than take something away.
Personally, I have a harder time visualizing an Ice Toa heating something by removing cold than a Fire Toa cooling something by removing heat. Something about it seems a little strange.
Hmmm…
Given the various states of matter inside the MU, and the fact that Bionicle doesn’t quite follow real-world physics, it might just be safer to assume that everything contains a bit of both heat and cold energy, the exact amount of which determines what state said matter is currently in. For example, solids would contain more cold, gasses would contain more heat, and liquids would essentially be more or less in the middle. And since both forms of energy determine final temperature when combined, it would likely stand to reason that if you started to upset this rather delicate balance by removing one side of the equation entirely, then the other would begin to rapidly flourish in its absence, hence making it appear that a Toa of Fire could cause Ice to form and vice versa.
So by that logic, a Toa of Ice wouldn’t actually be causing things to combust at all, and would instead simply be allowing their surroundings to naturally heat up on their own, as there would no longer be anything there to cool them down and keep them in check.