Though I must say, that scarf unironically looks pretty fly on her-- brown/beige compliments the navy blue well omg
6 Likes
Scarf meta lessgo!!!
5 Likes
Let’s see what I’ve missed.
Sure, true. But again, where’s the need?
While I don’t see claws as an earth-aesthetic, I guess it’s something of an example.
In the movie, it shows his equipping/unequipping of this. I’d think it be something to help stabilize breathing during combat, though there’s really not much else, huh?
While this could be chalked up to just using pieces on hand, with the mask being added later, it’s interesting to compare the Ruru to the popularized normal Volitak. They both have rather close features. Don’t know if this was a lucky fluke, or if it was intentional.
In the animations, Matoro is shown to be hiking in a blizzard wearing a scarf.
While some elements may just be cool to start with, they eventually come with reason. The prototypes were meant for a generalized depiction, not necessarily to be considered 100%. As we see with the final products, the fleshed-out designs reduce these bits for coherence’s sake. Nuparu Mahri would have been a nightmare to explain, even with the mutant-type transformation they had.
It’s due to my own issues. I am a highly logical, analytic thinker. It’s got me to be where I am today, but I know it’s not the most efficient mindset. I want to share the joy of free design, but ultimately my nature requires to know why.
I should have emphasized the little more. It was from comparing it to Orde, which you yourself show here, further illusioned by the extremely thin waist. I can see here more clearly with Gelu that your build is more appropriate in size. It is more of a fault on Bukkey’s Orde being short. I didn’t vote for it, neither. But, I did give you one of my votes, because I still liked it- like you said, “eh. close enough.”
That Zaria definitely is a bit bigger still.
Yes, “accidentally”.
And I try not to as much as I can. But I know that I can come off that way, because even knowing 3 languages I’m still not good in social skill to speak well at times where I fail to hold my opinion. I do suck, that’s why I ask for help.
Glorious. Approved.
Yes, nothing truly changes due to Bionicle being officially over. But I still want to feel connected through a shared image, even if not considered canon in truth. Also, doesn’t Chris (DuckBricks) give a grade in his reviews based on believability in universe?
Definitely a more fitting color than the eye-scratching bright red.
Thanks for the conversation.
4 Likes
Well, to put it simply-- Bionicle’s Matoran Universe is composed of biomechanical organisms. They have tissues and wires, bones and gears. Patch up a muscle, replace a part.
Regardless of the practical usage or element, anyone in the Matoran Universe can have mechanical elements like tubes and whatnot. It’s just their natural physiology, at least compared to Bara Magnans.
What can I say? I like variety. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
If I were to stand next to a fella from Sweden, for example, height differences would be obvious too. In a vast universe like Bionicle’s, I highly doubt every single Toa around the universe would be roughly the same height given all the factors of a Toa’s being.
e.g. Pre-Transformation conception of the image of a Toa, geographical factors, age, habits, diet(?)
I never said you suck. You’re very well in your rights to freely discuss things like this with the community, and I definitely notice the passion you evoke in having this conversation! 
I only find it rather disappointing when some people in the community in general resort to boxing ideas when LEGO’s goal is to have us think outside of it. Unfortunately though–
… That’s just human nature. You can’t just ask millions of people to share one vision when Bionicle was built on imagination and interpretation; we’re never gonna be a hive mind. Closest we get to that is voting in a Contest where majority will choose a winning design, canon or fanon. It doesn’t represent everyone’s image or vision, of course; as it shouldn’t.
If 51% of the community has the same idea when envisioning one character, then that’s that. Some will be upset, some won’t mind it. That’s just math, I guess. It just so happens that only the loudest applause gets heard more clearly.
5 Likes
Well actually 
… Bionicle: Glatorian III talks about it and it’s an underwater breathing apparatus.
Very much agreed 
6 Likes
I can tell you as a taller individual myself, I feel out of place and awkward. Plus, I also have a disadvantage in moving through various locations- especially wooded areas and doorways.
Doesn’t mean I don’t. Just ask any of my students.
Of course, it’s natural that it doesn’t. But that won’t stop me from trying to adapt my own view to match.
WeLl AcTuAlLy- why was he wearing it in a desert battle? Not questioning you, questioning Tarix’s character if this is to be the case.
5 Likes
Old habits I guess? Also I doubt there are many good “armor sets” just lying around on Bara Magna, so why not stick to your good old attire tested by a war?
Anyway, that was just an off topic remark on my part, sorry to derail the conversation.
7 Likes
Then I hope it’s some validation for you when I say that our differences are what make us special and unique; if everyone in the world looked the same, it’d be quite cohesive, clean, and organized, yes, but it’ll also be awkward, boring, and lonely.
You’re never out of place for being you. Your height doesn’t make you any less of a human being, in the same way that distinct features from around the Matoran universe makes one any less of a Toa. Who cares if we don’t look exactly alike? You’re already special just by being born.
If Lhikan were 6 inches taller than his team, I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t change anything about his duty or how he cared for Metru Nui. 
6 Likes
First, I check the submission’s compliance with the canon, down to the smallest statement by Greg. Then I look to see if the MOC is notovercomplicated (like Orde who won last time or Chiara who took first place), and finally, I choose the prettiest of those who do something original.
I also try to avoid MOCs by more popular creators, because it annoys me that some of the most interesting submissions (I really liked Chiara by Guzzi) are eliminated in the prelims in favor of MOCs whose main strength is the author’s nickname.
I’m skipping also all entries with scarfs, capes etc. and those who will make rare pieces even more expensive. Also, I’m never voting on entries which will cause that people will start painting bricks (like Nidhiki’s shoulder armor)
However, I don’t pay that much attention to scale, for my taste, all the POWERS that have won so far were definitely too small when compared to Toa Inika. Especially Lariska.
5 Likes
though he would resent the matoran for making all of the doorways tall-Matoran-sized.
7 Likes
But aren’t you doing the same thing by not voting for someone based on the name? How is that any better than voting for a MOC based on the creator?
12 Likes
I understand that it’s your voting preference, but that’s not… necessarily the case at times. While social media traction does indeed help entries, that’s not the main reason other entries are glossed over in the running tally list.
Posting and promoting one’s entry is part of the overall presentation the same way one’s main entry photo is. People vote for what they see, so it’s a good tactic to flaunt what you have. If you keep the secrets of the universe in a cookie jar, nobody’s gonna notice the substance. Marketing and publicizing is how your product gets attention.
If an entrant wants votes for their design, it’s their responsibility to put it out there, and not necessarily the fault of “popular creators” who’ve already been playing that game. They built their reputation from the ground up. That’s the reason their nickname is a “strength”.
7 Likes
As an anecdote- I’ve been called unapproachable, frightening, and terrifying, often accompanied with a curse word or two. Good for my security work when I try to keep safety and privacy, not so good with my teacher work when I need to be communicative and social with my students. Height does matter.
It’s a bit more than 6 inches taller, in my case (though, I could pull off a more realistic scale Toa cosplay). Anyway, taking the canonical height of Gelu, a little bit of image analysis has your Zaria at ~8’2’‘, or ~1’/14% taller than average. Just as a little fun math here quick. I will derail my own conversation, thank you very much!
I understand completely the sentiment @Bonks_Unite shows here, though I agree with @TheJerminator about the execution. We should be voting for the build, not the name. While it may be true that it’s not always the case, as @Synnova32 pointed out, there is no doubt about there being a definite bias that does affect many small-name builders. Bukkey’s Orde is a major example of this. Was it wrong for Bukkey to broadcast and promote their Orde build? Zero-divided-by-infinity percent no. But, that doesn’t mean there isn’t an unfair affect.
I see it being the same issue with modern American cinema. So many movies are shilling out names rather than stories. Is it an effective method for money-grubbing corporations? Yes. But, from what I’ve seen online in discussion, there’s been a noticeable decline in average movie experience (and not just due to the preachy-vibes of many). Yes, known actors have a proven reputation, but that doesn’t mean they are the best for the role. Much (not all) new, great talent goes unnoticed by being sidelined for those with bigger names, even if they would be a better fit.
3 Likes
What I meant by talking about not voting for popular creators is that when there are a many MOCs in a chosen pool that I like and I’m not sure which candidate I prefer, I try to distribute the points in a way that gives smaller creators a chance. It’s not like I’m bypassing popular creators’ entries even if they’re good. Canonicity and level of given MOC are more important criteria for me.
3 Likes
I disagree. Honestly brand recognition is the overwhelming factor.
If we look at outside the fanbase, say tech, plenty of tech companies make tons of money despite being behind the curve, Apple & Tesla come to mind. Or the music industry. Almost every modern celebrity’s music is mediocre, but they sell millions because of their brand because they’ve all industry plants. Or just Ubisoft & Activision in the games industry.
They not bad per say, just not neseccarily the best.
Now, that said, you can’t buy votes in the community, and you have to be decent. Not the best, just decent.
The last thing is that it’s not the votes that matter, but who counts them.
Thing is that the Bionicle community has always liked super oversized and greebly MOCs going all the way back to when Lego canonised fan MOCs. If you can balance greebling with following the trend with having a coherent silhouette, you’re halfway there to winning.
Plenty of good MOCs losts because they weren’t greebly enough. Synn and StudentScissor’s Chiara comes to mind.
2 Likes
I’ve never understood this idea of “metagaming” or “following the trend”. The claim is that people are compromising their creative ideas in order to garner votes from the community, but that take seems kind of backwards. If everyone in the community likes some kind of aspect of a design, then doesn’t that mean that the builders also like the idea, and are including it because they like it? Whether it’s colour distribution, greebling, etc., the fact that a lot of voters like it means that a lot of builders also like it, because it’s all the same group of people.
Sure, people might ask for feedback on what proportions look better, or advice on build techniques, or whatever minor thing, but I’ve never really seen any widespread instances of people massively overhauling their creative vision because someone said they didn’t like it.
I’ve only ever seen a single example of someone trying to change their entry to garner votes, and the community didn’t really like it. There was someone in DuckBricks’s Discord server asking for the “community consensus” on the Mask of Healing because they didn’t have any ideas of their own (or, as you might put it, “following the trend”), and the community mostly just encouraged them to work on their own design, rather than trying to copy others.
What do you mean by this?
9 Likes
Firstly, the community is definitely not a hegemony. If you want to win a competition, you have to appeal to the 51%. If your personal taste isn’t part of that 51% why even bother to express originality?
Plenty of people change their designs, it’s just the more obscure ones who don’t have the pull to influence the tastemakers.
If it sounds like I’m sore about it, yes. But it’s also reality. That’s how plenty of communities outside of Bionicle work, eg indie games selling jumpscare horror games, 4 chord progression in music. If it’s about appealing to the lowest common denominator outside of Bionicle, it’s naive to believe the Bionicle community is immune to this.
I am that person who asked for the consensus on mask of healing on DuckBricks, and “encourage” is a very funny way of calling me a talentless plagiarist with no ideas. I can tell you that half the interactions were pretty much a sugar coated way of saying “don’t copy ideas, but I ain’t helping you, also, you aren’t creative”. Be original, but don’t be radically different. Try new ideas, but stick to something familiar. The immediate response was from one of those tastemakers who used their platform to push homogenous design, and yet they said be original. Pure doublethink (I don’t think that person is a liar, just a human being who doesn’t realise how much they say one way and act other). Ok, some of DuckBricks community was helpful, but to say convergent design due to trying to appeal to the preconceived notion isn’t real is peak boomerism. Let’s take a live example. Anyone can use any mask for Zaria, but if you don’t use a mask with a T shape visor, you’ll immediately be eliminated, because runaway effect. Same with Naho and her huna.
And for the record, I intend to go with an axolotl inspired mask of healing, which is an original idea. Roth does a lotus seed and Galva is just Keetongu, both which I disagree with. Just because I ask for the consensus doesn’t mean I want to copy it wholesale. Yes, it’s hypocritical on both our parts, I want to know the consensus because I want to see what the community’s ideas converge on even though I hate it, but on their part they say the community has a convergent design, except it doesn’t exist and you should be original, but also we will only push designs we like from people we know about, who copy each other except they don’t. Like I said, double think.
Lemme use your own words, community likes an idea, so builders like an idea. But if a builder wants to build an idea based on what the community likes, that’s suddenly unoriginal and frowned upon? Seems contradicatory.
As for the “who counts the votes”, simply stating the facts. Not imply anything. Definitely not accusing DuckBricks of rigging the system, though I can’t say for the smaller competitions.
2 Likes
What…? A portion of Bionicle community likes big and textured, but never in favor of oversized and greebly when it comes to Canon/Fanon representations. Trust me. I know firsthand. Bionicle’s legacy is partly built on nostalgia, and the community, whether we like it or not, will very much sway towards familiarity. It feels like home. That’s not always a bad thing.
Also, HARD no. Vote counting is automated. The votes have always mattered, as they are representative of the thoughts and opinions of community members active enough to take part in these contests. Where is this coming from, dude? I thought you were already cool on this.
To put your hat in the ring. To put yourself out there. To solidify your vision. Winning isn’t everything, friend. If 51% doesn’t agree with you, it’s not the end of the world. In fact, that makes your vision a little rarer, don’t you think?
So what if you’re eliminated? You had a vision for Zaria and Naho, and you executed it the best way you could. Whether or not that resonated with the majority of the community doesn’t diminish the quality of your design by any means.
I understand you’re still sore from your first experience with the Fanon Contests, but there’s no need to lash out like this, and drag some names like mine into this like I’m sore too. If you’re still angry, take a break. Cool off. Come back with a clearer mindset.
8 Likes
But is the goal to win, or is it to show off your vision of the character?
I know I’m kind of lumping a lot of points together, but I think these apparent “contradictions” all make sense if you change your approach to the contests. The goal shouldn’t be to make an entry that’s most likely to win; it should be to make an entry that portrays how you personally see the character.
That doesn’t mean that you have to come up with every idea in a complete vacuum. If someone sees a MOC and starts to visualize that MOC when they imagine a character in the story, you can hardly expect someone to just forget ever seeing the MOC when they try to make their own visualization in plastic.
When designs converge, it’s not because everyone’s trying to hop on the winning meta to help their chances in the contest; it’s because when people see a design or idea they like, it affects how they visualize the character and they work it into their own design. Builders aren’t basing their ideas off what “the community” likes, they’re basing it off of something they saw in the community that they like. Of course, if a lot of people in the community like something, and the builders are part of the community, that results in a lot of builders (and voters) liking the same thing.
In your case, though (in terms of the Discord conversation), when you talk about how you don’t have a vision of your own and imply that you want to base your own entry off of what the community finds popular, it rubs people the wrong way because it comes across as the exact type of metagaming that you are accusing others of doing.
Ultimately, I think that conversation might have gone better if you asked “hey, I want to see some existing Healing designs to see if anything grabs my attention”, rather than seemingly implying that you just wanted to combine the most popular ideas in order to win the contest regardless of whether or not you liked them. (I know that may not have been your intention, but that’s how it came across, and that’s the angle from which people responded)
To sum things up by quoting you quoting me:
Basing your idea off what the community likes is frowned upon; basing your idea on something you saw in the community and that you liked is a-okay.
And for the record, I did know that you were the one asking about the Mask of Healing when I made my previous post, I just wanted to avoid making my arguments too personal when it wasn’t necessary for my point about how the community responded.
I’ll also add that your description of a axolotl-based Mask of Healing is a pretty cool idea, and shows a lot more creative vision than you let on when you asked about the Mask of Healing.
Do you have any sources for these facts?
Also, if you aren’t talking about the DuckBricks contests, which contests are you talking about?
11 Likes
Ok, maybe I phrased it in a way that’s implying something. My bad.
In this case, I’m not implying anything. Simply stating the facts about the democratic process. Or if it isn’t a public voting, then it’s appealing to the competition hosts.
I agree I am being a cynical hypocrite and doing the metagaming I accuse other people of doing. Whether I have the heart follow through, I’ll let you be the judge (I’ve posted my Zaria entry and I’m definitely not changing it).
Not giving an excuse, yes, I’m still bitter about it, irrationally so. Like thanks for advising to cool off, just gimme a lot of time. I don’t deal with my emotions, I just produce content. Maybe it’s unhealthy, but my bad behaviour is solely on me. If I’m still bitter about this in 2 years time, that’s on me as well.
7 Likes