That entire segment was a slew of joking exposition, I’m finding it very difficult to take you seriously while you take it seriously. Personally, I was happy that Bionicle was mentioned at all, the movie had absolutely no need to throw in Bionicle as an Easter egg when it wasn’t even an active property at the time, but they did. In my eyes that shows that at least somebody working on the film still cared.
Complaining about it just makes you look entitled.
Would I want them to feature one of the old sets as a background character or even a member of the main cast? Of course I would! Why wouldn’t I? But they don’t owe us that, especially because as of the time that both the first and second lego movie installments were released, Bionicle was not even on the shelves. At the end of the day, Lego is a company, trying to sell toys, why would they promote a product that isn’t even available.
That was thanks to designers such as Nick Vas… LEGO itself had no intention on doing that.[quote=“ToaNoah_Wafflemeister, post:7, topic:50060”]
The most disrespectful thing to do is act like it never existed and meant nothing.
[/quote]
Well, that is exactly what I feel they are doing right now… that is kinda the reason I made this topic.
Well that is the thing… The LEGO Movie 2 was a huge opportunity to revive the public interest in Bionicle, or even put it back on shelves in some way, and they missed that opportunity, which really bugs me.
Why? The theme had ended literally 3 years before, why would they sink money into something like that? Doing it in maybe ten or so years, I could see, but not now. Off the back of how G2 ended it is far too early.
Also, can you define LEGO to me? What is LEGO, as an entity in this scenario? Would you like the CEO to write an essay about how grateful he is that BIONICLE saved the company? Would you like the company to release a tweet every year on its anniversary thanking BIONICLE for what it did for LEGO? Who exactly doing what exactly would satisfy you, and why do you think it’s necessary for a franchise that hasn’t been in its prime for close to a decade now.
As I have said before, Bionicle was planned to make an appearance in the LEGO Movie 2. There was even a cancelled set that would have probably featured Takanuva or something. The fact that they wanted to do it (even if the line isn’t active) and ended up not is what makes me sad.
That was probably back when G2 was still actually on the shelves. Given the movie came out this year, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume that the film and its corresponding sets would have been in production in 2016, or even 2015, and those plans were shelved following G2’s cancellation.
Might it have boosted Bionicle’s sales and saved the toyline? Perhaps, but as it stands it was too little too late, and there’s no use in crying over spilt milk.
That was largely hyperbole, my main point was that if you’re going to complain about how they’re doing the franchise a disservice now, what exactly do you want them to do? An easter egg in their massive theatrical animated film isn’t enough? Okay, what else do you want?
Are you starting to see how this sounds?
Now believe me, I like to complain about something I love going down the toilet as much as the next guy, pick anything really: Sonic has been a constant on-and-off rollercoaster of quality for nearly 30 years (with the one good game in recent memory being overshadowed by a mediocre mess in the exact same year), Ben 10 has been slowly deteriorating in quality ever since the first show ended back in 2008, Star Wars is a whole other can of worms I can’t be bothered to unpack here (because the last thing this thread needs is an off-topic flamewar), and Firefly? Well, Firefly pretty much speaks for itself (rest in spaghetti, never forghetti)
The difference being that I vent for the sake of getting it off my chest, and don’t actually expect anything to change, because it isn’t about me. I can criticise a company’s poor decisions all I like, but that ultimately doesn’t make any difference to them, or the thing I’m criticising. I can hope, sure, but it probably won’t. Instead, I make up for that by trying to give back to the community, usually with mediocre writing projects that never really get past the planning stages
This is something that I’m personally looking into. BIONICLE fans throw that fact around way too often without understanding the full context. What I do know for certain is that BIONICLE seems to have peeked in popularity between 2001-2005 (based on the marketing materials we were seeing for it at the time). And more importantly, that large popularity (I heard from an inside source at one point that BIONICLE accounted for something like 40% of LEGO’s overall profits (or sales, I’ll need to go back and clarify which) at a certain time.
This massive success meant that BIONICLE occupied too large a space in LEGO’s business portfolio. If this lightning-in-a-bottle-theme was to suddenly die (toy trends are very volatile from what I’ve heard/read), LEGO would be in serious financial trouble. From what my source told me, that was one of the many reasons LEGO eventually wound BIONICLE down in order to eventually put it to bed in 2010.
Additional side-note: allegedly BIONICLE set designers were given a blank check when it came to new parts budgets. Again, I need to fact-check this, but they were apparently requesting approx. 40 new molds per year (many of them single use).
Each Hordika have a separate head mold (which was to be expected by this point). In addition, they each had very complex dual-molded (using two different types of plastic and two different colors) weapons (only one of which was ever reused in regular retail sets).
But it doesn’t stop there. The Hordika’s larger frames and new gear function used a new upper arm piece, new lower leg piece and a new back piece that saw very little reuse. What’s more, that year’s Beyblades-inspired projectile gimmick used a new bulky ripcord piece, a hyper-specialized asymmetric TECHNIC liftarm variant and a new pin mold.
And if all that’s not enough? They made a brand new gear mold that they only reused twice.
That’s an enormous amount of parts inventory space being taken up by just the Hordika, a single wave of products. Ironically, those sets don’t seem to be remembered that fondly by the fandom. I don’t have any information on how well they sold, so I can’t comment on that.
Apparently it got one. There’s allegedly a prominent BIONICLE-centric section of one of the key displays at the LEGO House in Denmark.
It was only seen as “disrespectful” because we as a fandom have a serious problem with letting go of our childhood nostalgia to instead embrace new (and better things).
In fairness, the Hidden Side BIONICLE The Game Easter egg was apparently inserted because the graphic designer who worked on that set’s sticker sheet had a hand in/was a fan of that old game.
I recall @toothdominoes mentioning it at some point on his Brickfair panel, but I don’t currently have the time to scrub through and find the exact timestamp.
So who is “LEGO itself” in this discussion? The senior management? The entire team in Billund? Just some faceless corporation we can get angry at?
That’s kinda ironic considering TLM2’s box office and toy sales. But out of curiosity, how do you think they could have done that (assuming the film had actually been a smashing commercial success like the first one)?
Better head over to the Star Wars topic then. I’ll meet you there with my Last Jedi/Solo defense essays in hand
######(ignore the hilariously dated original post)
Never give up man. If you post your stuff here, I’ll read it
Feel free to duke it out over here. I’ll bring the popcorn
I appreciate the offer, but I think I’ll pass, I’ve had more than enough of that whole spat.
Long story short: I never cared enough about Solo to watch it, the Last Jedi has some of the best and some of the worst moments in the franchise, and overall I feel like the sequel trilogy could’ve tread new ground instead of basically reliving the original trilogy (which was largely thanks to episode 7, oof).
Also dang, I didn’t even know there was a Ben 10 thread, I’ll be sure to lob my hot and not-so-hot takes into that there ring
Real quick, to address the original topic, no they aren’t disrespecting Bionicle. Bionicle has been dead for a few years oh, and we can’t expect them to keep talking about it. Especially when Constraction in general seems to have been cut out from their plans.
Why would LEGO give us this? Constraction is an idea, just like robotics, or mechs, or castle. It’s not a quantifiable product or IP like Mindstorms, Exo-Force or Knights Kingdom. They don’t tell us when robotics are taking a break. They just quietly retire it, work on the next iteration behind closed doors and then unveil it when its ready. That very process is likely happening right now in Billund.
Okay. I don’t know a huge amount about current management. But keep in mind that LEGO is now a very successful company. They need to safeguard their investments. They’re not in the business of throwing crazy ideas out there, hoping they caught on like they were during their runaway innovation phase of the late 90s/early 2000s (keep in mind that LEGO was bleeding money at certain points back then).
Well yeah, but at this point nobody is really sure weather they are working on something or not. There is that leak that got revealed a few weeks ago about a potential 2020 constraction theme with the codename “Leaf” but even so people aren’t sure what to believe.
LEGO has released over 700 sets so far in 2019. Surely between the models themselves, alt-builds, minifigs, new parts, and connections to old themes there’s more than enough to keep the community engaged in enriching discussion without needing to waste time seeking out illegally obtained information that has the potential to actively harm LEGO.
Leakes aside, there is no reason to believe they are working right now on any constraction theme, or that they have any plans for constraction in the near future.
I really disagree. At least, for your type of intrigue.
The LEGO Movie’s nod to Bionicle is on-par with its not to Fabuland, taking up equal time and being put directly next to each other. Really, it’s ridiculous to interpret this as disrespectful when the film had absolutely nothing to do with either theme.
And the concept really deflates your argument here - that Bionicle got so far as to almost have a main character in a rather large role in the second LEGO Movie, that role being on-par with the raptors of Rex. Yes, it was cut, but the very fact that it was even considered shows LEGO still cares and is acknowledging Bionicle more than they used to.
Who works for LEGO…
Which begs the question:
Possibly three people sitting around a conference table eating steak and wiping the corners of their mouths with Bionicle money?
LEGO is a business first, a toy company second. They’re quite possibly the most powerful toy company in the world, and definitely the most powerful with the least production or resources in China. LEGO is a household name and a household product shared and purchased by nearly every age in every demographic. Upholding that is more important that appeasing a few thousand people on the internet demanding necromancy be committed.
Not to mention that some of the largest portions of the community (in LEGO’s eyes, anyway) are repetitive cesspools of toxicity which most people avoid, but LEGO doesn’t. Until they die out, or LEGO finally drops them altogether, the rest of the fanbase is stuck with the label of self-centered hypocrites.
This information your ex-LEGO employee’s cited is entirely true. As well, Kjeld stepped down as president of LEGO directly before that, and hired someone outside the LEGO family to run the company.
Hm… What if LEGO decided to bring Bionicle back, with less of a story emphasis and much more of an emphasis on making good sets? sure, they won’t all be perfect, but it’ll be a generally good line, and if people like it, it can go past the three year mark. Well?
I recall hearing the same thing from likely a different source. There’s no hiding that Bionicle was a real moneymaker and an absolute success in its early years. And, as you suggest, possibly too great. Before 2008 that is
Do you, David, recall how long it took to make the T rex set they just put out? It’s heavily implied it took the majority of five years, and was entirely thanks to an employee’s MOC. It takes time to make individual sets, and even more to plan out six waves of a single theme just in the product pitch.
And yet people will, because they need LEGO now. Not tomorrow, now.
I completely disagree. Solely based off the Takanuva concept art, it’s evident someone was thinking of a way to translate that small of as Bionicle character into LEGO format. And if Nick Vas is a LEGO employee, then LEGO is thinking about constraction, and more specifically, Bionicle.
LEGO will never satisfy you if your demands are to do G1 over again, or continue where it left off, or whatever. That Bionicle is never coming back. In kind words, get over it and move on.
Am I saying to move on from Bionicle? maybe. You can keep moving forward in Bionicle, heck, even move forward with G1. But clinging to your crib only makes it harder to let it go. G1 is never, ever, EVER COMING BACK - I can repeat it in bold if you’d like - the exact same as how anything else long gone will never come back. Bionicle G1 is a mix of what it actually was and the conceptualized, flawless version everyone has in their heads, which is different. If LEGO somehow managed to perfectly match one person’s dream with a return they would crush everyone else’s; it isn’t going to happen. If G1 came back exactly the same as it was when it started the charm would be lost, and it wouldn’t be the same G1 you had.
If Bionicle comes back a third time - and given how ranting and raving brought it back once, and nobody here is going to stop anytime soon - please, please don’t be so greedy for something that will never come back. Be happy with what you get; a third chance may be our last.
As for if LEGO’s disrespecting Bionicle? They dedicated an entire section of their gigantic museum to the theme. It’s forever engraved in LEGO’s lengthy history of successes and failures. And it will be a double-sided curse to the company for the rest of its days because surely it’s gonna happen again at some point, right? can’t it happen all over again, LEGO?
LEGO is no more disrespectful to Bionicle and its community than we are to LEGO. Not even giving it back to us could please us.
Oh, this is so good. I’m currently writing a video about this. BIONICLE’s brand has somehow managed to become so much more than the sum of its parts to our small little niche within the niche of the LEGO community (reusing this term from earlier because it’s important to remember just how small a gang we BIONICLE superfans truly are).
As Obsidian mentioned, those drawings were made in 2015 when Bionicle G2 was in full swing, so it kinda made sense to include them then. However, the actual movie didn’t come out until 2018 when G2 had already been dead for about 2 years. While the Lego movies are supposed to be fun and enjoyable, the main purpose of them is to sell toys.
Also, the fact that Bionicle was even considered to be a part of the second movie is still a great thing in its own right. There are some many other themes through Lego’s recent history that could’ve been included like Exo-Force, Agents, etc. but weren’t.
Lego isn’t really known for making big press releases about themes being discontinued. The fact that G2 got a press release saying “hey, we’re sorry, but we’re going to have to cancel this theme early” is very out of the norm. There have probably been many themes that have been canceled prematurely but never got a press release that they were being canceled early
Also, the fact that we now have set designers like Nick Vas and Toothdominoes that are including references related to Bionicle is a great thing. They probably have to go through some review to make sure prints and stickers are appropriate, which means that if these referential stickers and prints are making it into official sets, then it means that Lego is fine with them being included. If Lego was trying to disrespect Bionicle, then they probably would have rejected the stickers and prints
I don’t believe this at all. This is an example of people jumping to conclusions way, way too quickly. With Leaf, we know absolutely nothing about the sets, we only know how many there. We have no names, no piece counts, no price points, nothing. Just an arbitrary number of the number of sets this “theme” is going to have. 2020 isn’t for another 4 months, loads of things could change before we reach it. Heck, the theme could already be prematurely canceled and we just don’t know it yet
Finally, I just want to address the fact that we’ve had Bionicle as a theme for 12 years. I can’t think of an original IP by Lego (aside from the big three that started it all) that has lasted as long as Bionicle has. Now, Ninjago might eventually beat it, as it’s basically an evergreen theme at this point, but that’s not going to be for another 4-5 years or so. The fact that Bionicle has been around for 60% of my lifetime (I’m currently 20) is pretty amazing to me and while I would love for it to continue, I know that’s probably not possible, at least at this point in time. The fact it even got a second chance after so many years was a great thing for me, as I was just a little kid for most of its original run.
That’s where the fans come in. As Christian Faber once said, BIONICLE is now what we make of it. It’s up to us to build MOCs, write fanfic, draw art, 3D print masks, remake old video games, play RPGs and use our creativity in any number of other ways. That’s how we will keep the legend alive.
