My Take On TTV's G3 Pitch [Worldbuilding] [Pitch] [Characters]

[Eljay]

@Matanui606

Which is exactly what G2 was, sure it traded Rahi for hordes of skull spiders, but it was still a general retelling, and from what little plot had been presented on the podcast a month ago when I wrote this, that seemed the direction your guy’s pitch was going as well.

G2 may have had similarities, sure, but it doesn’t matter. G2 lasted a year and a half. Do you really want to do what G2 did?

And even if it lasted the full 3, just because G2 did something isn’t a good reason or excuse to do something.

@Matanui606

I see your point, but given the changes mentioned above, I think this is no longer a problem. Having the Toa chosen by the Great Spirit means that they can appear as the attacks begin and then be sent to claim their mantle as Toa.

But you still have the issue of two different methods. Why would the Great Spirit pick those 6? Why not just pick 12, or more?

@Matanui606

There are actually several things that aren’t out of 2001, for example having them transform from matoran and retain their memories poses an interesting conundrum as they try to understand their new place in the village. The existence of the Toa Temples explains why they have to go search out these things rather than just having masks spread across the island with no explanation of how they got there. There’s also the TTV Canon changes to earth that shake things up as well as Lewa being female. Yes it’s a lot like 2001, but that’s what makes it feel like Bionicle, completely changing the storyline would make the line incredibly removed from its roots.

But that is boring. If you want to restart BIONICLE, there is no reason not to try new things. Trust me, I loved the mask hunt in 2001. But I’m not sure I’d want to see it again for the third time.

@Matanui606

I remind you that this was written a month ago while the G3 discussion was in it’s infancy. At the time you were toying with the idea of island hopping and it was also preposed that there would be weekly worldbuilding columns on the website. An article every week for a year is more than enough to establish an entire island, and honestly, by the end of the year, you’d be scraping the bottom of the barrel for content. A ■■■■■ to a new island allows for new worldbuilding as you explore the entirely new culture of the area.

Island hopping was disposed very early on. And for us, we’re not moving off the first island for at least three years. The idea is to build the world by going there and being present. We were given descriptions of the villages in G2, but did we really go there? Can you draw one from memory? Name a cool fact about them without BS01? The world was described, but it was not built well at all.

@Matanui606

From a worldbuilding standpoint, a continent is no harder to set up than an island, in some ways it’s easier. On a continent there’s no way you could possibly see everything, as such, large areas can be painted abstractly, as opposed to an island where you need to make sure you design every part of it. On a continent, you only really have to design the major cities, the area around them, and the roads between them.

It doesn’t seem like you understand how big a continent really is. That’s all of Europe, North America, Australia. Those places are huge. You have to consider travel time between villages, climates, atmospheres, and so on.

Also, that’s a really lazy perspective on visual design. I want these places to look outstanding, not boring open plains.

Additionally, another core aspect of BIONICLE? A tribal atmosphere, not a city one.

@Matanui606

The large tonal ■■■■■ is intentional, when you move to a new location, you need to show that it’s new, it needs to feel distinct. Also, culture varies wildly from one island to the next, it’s preposterous to think that they would be exactly the same.

Never said it wasn’t intentional, just that it was bad. Very bad, actually. You can not do that ■■■■■ properly in one year. That was a major issue with the Ignition Trilogy. It is not a good idea if you want people to get invested in your world, because you set it up in year one and then throw that out in year 2. That’s terrible storytelling.

@Matanui606

No, they get all of the fragments of the Mask of Time in secret, given that the Okotian Toa don’t even know that they exist, then they freeze the continent.

I must stress again how big a continent is. How long of a time span is this over? A year? Two years? Do they fly, walk, vehicles? And are there no survivors that warn other cities? Do they not see them coming, given that they are advanced cities, which would then alert the large amount of Toa and allow them to combat this new threat?

@Matanui606

Ninjago’s tournament of elements introduced loads of new elemental masters, but still managed to keep the spotlight on the protagonists. You can have a large number of supporting characters and still focus on the main team.

They introduced 12 characters which were archetypes and nothing more. Only 1 out of 12 continued to appear afterwards with any meaningful character development. They were not developed at all and were used as plot devices. So you’ll either introduce 20 Toa that serve little to no purpose since they aren’t defending their cities, or you’ll focus on them and dilute focus between everything. It is a lose lose either way. You only need six.

@Matanui606

You, being someone who has knowledge of G1’s golden years can’t accurately make this statement.

I don’t believe that’s true at all. I think I can know of G1 yet still understand you need an outside audience, because you’ll need to be concerned with keeping their attention for the sake of longevity.

[Matanui606]

@Eljay

G2 may have had similarities, sure, but it doesn’t matter. G2 lasted a year and a half. Do you really want to do what G2 did?

And even if it lasted the full 3, just because G2 did something isn’t a good reason or excuse to do something.

A reboot, by definition, is telling an old story a new way. To completely scrap all of the previous story and make a completely new one is not a reboot, it may as well be a completely different theme.

@Eljay

But you still have the issue of two different methods. Why would the Great Spirit pick those 6? Why not just pick 12, or more?

It’s a cultural difference, a difference in the way the inhabitants ask the Great Spirit for help, on Mata Nui they ask the Great Spirit to reveal his heros to them that they may rise up and defend them, on Okoto they ask the Great Spirit to give them the power to defend themselves. In one case the Great Spirit chooses Toa, in the other he gives the Toa Stones so that they can become Toa themselves. Having Two different ways of becoming a Toa is not a problem, in G1 there were at least three different ways I can remember.

@Eljay

But that is boring. If you want to restart BIONICLE, there is no reason not to try new things

Interesting that you say we need to try new things but viscerally oppose any of the suggestions I’ve made.

@Eljay

Island hopping was disposed very early on.

You guys never actually disposed of the idea, you moved on to another topic without cementing anything like you did with many other topics at the beginning of the discussion. You have only recently began cementing ideas that will be part of TTV Canon.

@Eljay

We were given descriptions of the villages in G2, but did we really go there? Can you draw one from memory? Name a cool fact about them without BS01? The world was described, but it was not built well at all.

G2 is a terrible example, it lacked any sort of actual worldbuilding and failed to show us the world in any meaningful way, even a world as rich as Midfle Earth would have been bland if shown in the way of G2.

@Eljay

It doesn’t seem like you understand how big a continent really is. That’s all of Europe, North America, Australia. Those places are huge. You have to consider travel time between villages, climates, atmospheres, and so on.

Yes, I do understand how big a continent is, they also come in smaller sizes, such as Australia.

@Eljay

Also, that’s a really lazy perspective on visual design. I want these places to look outstanding, not boring open plains.

You do realize that the Earth Kingdom in Avatar is a continent don’t you? And what did we see of that? Two major cities and some villages. You don’t have to design the entire continent in order to impart the atmosphere.

@Eljay

Additionally, another core aspect of BIONICLE? A tribal atmosphere, not a city one.

I think you have misunderstood what I mean by city, we aren’t talking about Metru Nui here, this place is in the bronze age. I’m looking at a Greek/Roman feel here, and while yes that is not a tribal atmosphere, it is something that has been explored on the podcast by Jon when you were talking about environments, and it has a fair amount of support.

@Eljay

Very bad, actually. You can not do that ■■■■■ properly in one year. That was a major issue with the Ignition Trilogy.

Just because something has been done badly doesn’t mean that it can’t be done well, much like romance is only bad when writen badly, the same can be said for location changes.

@Eljay

It is not a good idea if you want people to get invested in your world, because you set it up in year one and then throw that out in year 2. That’s terrible storytelling.

Once again drawing from Avatar, they are in a new village practically every episode, and are in a new nation every season. Each nation varies wildly from the next, not to meantion all of the variance from village to village. Avatar is largely seen as a great example of storytelling and does exactly what you say is the hallmark of horrible storytelling. It’s only bad if it’s done badly.

@Eljay

I must stress again how big a continent is. How long of a time span is this over? A year? Two years? Do they fly, walk, vehicles?

Does it matter? This happened before the Toa Mata ever got there, and once they did time has already been stopped.

@Eljay

And are there no survivors that warn other cities?

I think you have misunderstood, the Vahi’s Sanctuaries are not in the cities, they are out in the wild. The Rahkshi are not attacking cities, they collect the fragments of the Vahi before the Toa even know that they exist.

@Eljay

given that they are advanced cities

These are not advanced cities, they’re in the bronze age, honestly they’re not that much more advanced than Mata Nui.

@Eljay

They introduced 12 characters which were archetypes and nothing more. Only 1 out of 12 continued to appear afterwards with any meaningful character development.

I’d argue a large number of them underwent character development during that arc as they learned to put aside their differences and work together.

@Eljay

They were not developed at all and were used as plot devices.

I mean, for the second year the Okotian Toa basically are plot devises, they spend the first half of the year frozen and then exist only to help the Toa Mata defeat the Rahkshi. They wouldn’t really get much of the spotlight until the year three when they’re holding off the Bohrok swarms, and even then they aren’t in the spotlight, they’re mearly a subplot, like any group of side characters holding off an army while the main characters do the boss fight.

@Eljay

I think I can know of G1 yet still understand you need an outside audience

I’m not saying we don’t need and outside audience, I’m saying you cannot give the opinion of someone who has never seen Bionicle because you have seen Bionicle.