Toa Hagah Canon Contest Format Feedback

[Hazash]

@Ghid

We’d also be allowed cut pieces and wait for Greg to put out the next book before we see who the winners are. Oh, and we’d probably get a physical prize too. Incentive for waiting half a year.

Except we’re adults now - fans rather than just consumers. We don’t need constant drip-feeding of shiny objects just to keep us engaged with the theme. By virtue of us still being here ten years after the theme’s been cancelled, we’re not going to drop out of the community just because things take a little longer.

@Ghid

There’s really no reason, but you aren’t going to convince anybody who would rather be impatient with this logic. So I’m going to factor in the impatient fans as well as Eljay and Meso wanting to have a life and not think about the results of the Hagah contest for four months as a unchanging constant.

I’m going to wait and see what they say on the subject. But if they want to take things slower than normal, people need to be understanding of that.

@Ghid

@Hazash

Statistically unlikely.

Dangerous words.

I took issue with your rhetoric of saying literally no one agrees with me. The topic of how long people are willing to wait hasn’t even been discussed by others here, as far as I can tell, so you can’t just assume everyone is so impatient that they can’t wait a little longer to get results.

@Ghid

But we’re not seeing a single Hagah contest. We’re seeing the results of four Hagah contests, all held at the same time, which - even if the vote vetting is spaced out evenly over a long period of time - must happen all at once for entries and building time to occur.

And I would present the question to fans and to TTV of why we need to know the results of all four contests at the same time. Can’t we just treat them like separate contests and pace out the announcement of the winners? Maybe even a few respite periods between each as with the prior contests. Potentially that will help identify and rectify any unexpected issues with how the Hagah contests are being run, and prevent us running four contests badly instead of just one.

For TTV, the answer is partially what works best for them, which neither of us can attest to until they tell us. But also, I refer back to my original concerns of the risks of inconsistent depictions for the Hagah if we don’t stagger either entry periods or voting periods. The more opportunities we put in place to make sure inconsistencies are noticed and rectified increases the odds that we get a well-received set of designs.
The depictions we get at the end of these contests will last the lifetime of the Bionicle community, whereas the contests will last only months. I’d prefer that we take things slowly now if it means avoiding years of bitterness when the contests are over.

I doubt I have much more to say on this until I see what others and TTV think.

[Winger]

@Hazash

ten years after the theme’s been cancelled

I mean, technically there was …

_{I’ll stop there.}

[Hazash]

A G2 reference?

[ajjagecko]

Yeah, it seems like a tricky balance, as they should look different than normal colors, but also would then look like a different type. Both Kualas with trying not to look like normal ice or a light toa, and Gaki with Lightning and Psionics.

Like you said, it’s just preference, and in my opinion, both of those options should be allowed. Not the first time colors have overlapped (like what @TTheLus said with Hahli, or Sonic and Earth sharing the exact same colors, with Earth having some additional options). Plus, the Hagah are unique already for their job and metallic armor in general, so it should be fine either option.

[Axelford]

White and blue does seem to work, after all Hahli ignika had white-plus other colours like gold or silver might only confuse what the element is.

Idk feel free to correct me guys if white does present problems.

I miss out on so much quality content like my boy pouks when a topic is this big and fast moving. Perhaps I’ll draw a tribute if I’m in the mood…

Someone posted further up a metru frame with narrower shoulders and I think that would look nice for Gaak and perhaps someone else-it still has the same recognisable shape and like things such as having the waist piece attachment varying by 3 points or shorter or longer legs it is only a minor proportion change that creates a little variety.

[Ghid]

@Hazash

Except we’re adults now

Not commenting any more on this since I only addressed it to point out it was a red herring

@Hazash

I’m going to wait and see what they say on the subject. But if they want to take things slower than normal, people need to be understanding of that.

My money is that they won’t take things slower than normal, as it will undoubtedly double the stress as opposed to lessening it.

@Hazash

The topic of how long people are willing to wait hasn’t even been discussed by others here, as far as I can tell, so you can’t just assume everyone is so impatient that they can’t wait a little longer to get results.

I have… Two complete canon contests that say otherwise which I kept up with on a regular basis and saw a great amount of the ‘discussion’ from?

I can assume.

@Hazash

Can’t we just treat them like separate contests and pace out the announcement of the winners?

Let’s also have the entry period for MOCs be separate contests as well, since we’re already spacing out every other portion.

@Hazash

Maybe even a few respite periods between each as with the prior contests.

No wait, that’s what you’re literally saying.

TTV has repeatedly said the contest will occur all at once, in multiple different places, and specifically here, in the rules:

Regarding the Hagah:
This contest will not be done in multiple parts. This will be an exception, as canonically the Hagah can wear a mask of any shape that has no bearing on the power. As such, the art and MOC portions will be hosted together. Any 3D pieces that follow the prior guidelines are allowed to be used in MOCs provided the source files are posted alongside the entry. Additionally, entrants may enter up to four (4) Toa Hagah, however there is no guarantee they will all be voted as the winning design. The polls will be divided up into four different topics, one for each remaining Hagah. The only strict guideline that must be adhered to is that the Hagah must wield a spear and a Hagah shield.

I’d quote it normally, but quote is broken on that post for some reason.

So any solution must take this into account, and I must admit, I forgot about this when writing the Ghid rules. I’ll have to go modify them.

@Hazash

Potentially that will help identify and rectify any unexpected issues with how the Hagah contests are being run, and prevent us running four contests badly instead of just one.

This topic is supposed to bring up and rectify issues. To some degree, I think it’s working.

@Hazash

I refer back to my original concerns of the risks of inconsistent depictions for the Hagah if we don’t stagger either entry periods or voting periods.

I defer, again, to the Ghid Rules, quoting specifically:

@Ghid

Contest will be held in two waves: MOC contest, and then Group Art contest. This is so the finalized winners all have a cohesive feel and individual character entries on BS01 can split the image to focus on the respective members. Norik and Iruini’s inclusion in the final contest is optional.

Making staggering the contests completely unnecessary. If the issue with Group Art is modification of the original MOC design, I present the winning art of the Artakha contest, which recolored and redesigned his mask entirely, and the winning art of the Helryx contest, which completely changed the configuration of Helryx’s neck and altered the mask.

@Hazash

The depictions we get at the end of these contests will last the lifetime of the Bionicle community, whereas the contests will last only months. I’d prefer that we take things slowly now if it means avoiding years of bitterness when the contests are over.

There will be years of bitterness when the contests are over no matter what you do. TTV shouldn’t be running canon contests at all, Greg has no authority to canonize new material, it has a 3D printed mask so I won’t allow it on Biosector - all these retorts have come up within the time the contests have occurred.

But staggering the contests isn’t going to stop visual inconsistency. If TTV allows custom torsos within specific size limitations - and so far, there’s no major indication they’re leaning in either direction outside of a few small comments - there’s going to be ‘visual inconsistency’ because they might not be all Metru Builds. And if that’s another war you want to fight, go ahead, but that’s why in the Ghid Rules I left no room for a mid-point art contest, so the final Group Art - after the MOCs, however inconsistent, are already chosen - has the capability to mix and match things however desired both by the artist and by TTV.

We can cross that bridge when we get to it. For now, let’s focus on if we’ll ever get to it.

[Tarkur]

@Tarkur

Still don’t get the want for a custom torso feels kinda pointless, if someone would educate me, on the reasons that would be nice

Yee no I still don’t get the custom torso argument, enlighten me

[Ghid]

@Tarkur

Yee no I still don’t get the custom torso argument, enlighten me

Welcome back, again

[THE_DOOR_OPENER]

These are pretty great representations of the characters, imo. They’re a bit too greebly for my tastes, but I wouldn’t be disappointed at all if these won. I enjoy all the creative things you’ve done with the limbs.

[Pakari]

I fixed my Strakk torso.

Of course, this only works if a Vahki waist is allowed.

Let it be known I don’t intend to enter a MOC for this contest, nor would I enter this specifically as it’s a bit cliche, but it is an example of good ways to mix up using the Metru torso.

That being said, @TTheLus’s MOCs are now my favorites and no one can convince me otherwise.

[Ghid]

@Pakari

Of course, this only works if a Vahki waist is allowed.

Now it looks even more like he’s taking a dump

Also I instinctively saw that mask as the black/silver Tehutti mask and had to look hard to process it was all silver

@Pakari

That being said, @TTheLus’s MOCs are now my favorites and no one can convince me otherwise.

Then I hate to break it to you, but Kualus can’t exist even with all those pieces being 3d printed: The chest is clipping.

[Winger]

@Pakari

That being said, @TTheLus’s MOCs are now my favorites and no one can convince me otherwise.

I mean kinda, ngl.

[Pakari]

@Ghid

Then I hate to break it to you, but Kualus can’t exist even with all those pieces being 3d printed: The chest is clipping.

Or someone could just remove the pistons from the bottom.

They’re not exactly pivotal to the design.

[Takutanuva]

Also Pouks gotta lose the mask

[THE_DOOR_OPENER]

I love it, I think if you expanded upon it it could be a great MoC.

[Ghid]

@Pakari

Or someone could just remove the pistons from the bottom.

They’re not exactly pivotal to the design.

And the, uh, whole bottom third of the armor, and the middle arch, and the side portions…

Working with Iliad has made me hyperaware of clipping

[N01InParticular]

@Ghid

Working with Iliad has made me hyperaware of clipping

wait that’s still happening?

[The_Blue_Panda]

Bruh

[ajjagecko]

Ooooh looks great! That other hip piece and that torso armor making it flow nicely works so much better.

[Ghid]

@N01InParticular

wait that’s still happening?

@Ghid

oh uh btw guys I realized just now I have somewhere to be so uh I’ll be back in a couple years ok bye