POLL: BIONICLE G1 Canonization Contests?

I did say you could @ me and you always can, promise :slight_smile:

I’ll say that the reasons I have drawn these lines aren’t personal (and I really hope I’ve been able to make the distinction between my own personal feelings, which admittedly tend to be more on the negative side, and the more officious reasons why I/we don’t think it’s a good idea for the community after all.

We do consider Greg’s word as final… except in cases when he is wrong, which not only is just good on principle (I’ve always said that to treat Greg as completely infallible does a disservice not only to him as a source, but to our readers as well) but is something he himself has acknowledged and agreed with. In this case, I’m really trying hard to balance responsibilities both to LEGO, as a registered community, and to our readers and the broader community as a whole. These aren’t decisions and statements that come easily or lightly, and again, I’m doing my best to try and separate or at least make clear what are my own personal opinions and the unbiased stances I feel we have to take.

It might come across as slightly arrogant, but I’ll say that I’m not super concerned with the data and viewership. Wikia will always be able to one-up us on SEO, but there’s a reason they aren’t a real community and we’ve remained a cohesive unit that LEGO saw fit to recognize. But, of course, I understand that reputation also bares its share of scrutiny; this is a new situation for all of us, and we’re trying to navigate it as best we can according to our guiding principles. I don’t see anything I’ve said as being contradictory to the intense skepticism we put on many things, a skepticism that has saved our bacon more often than not, but likewise, we’re not infallible and need to be able to adapt. I promise promise promise I’m not being a meanie-pants for no reason.

Apropros of absolutely nothing, I like this take on why CCBS should be allowed. I was having a hard time phrasing why I thought it was okay, but this is close to what I was envisioning. LEGO is LEGO, and even if CCBS seems weird retroactively, the principles behind using parts and pieces remains the same.

Just speaking personally, it bothers me a bit that this is the attitude, and why the quasi-official stamp of approval matters so much. More than anything I’ve said, I feel like reducing things to “just a contest” is a knock against all the hard work somebody might put in for the sake of creativity itself rather than scoring some internet points. It’s one reason in general why I’ve disliked a number of official contests that have been done, and especially ones with only one winner; it feels much less communal and more every man for himself.

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Regarding the Toa Hagah specifically as they’ve now frequently appeared in discussion:

Given that pretty much everyone seems to agree that them being Metru builds would be “correct”, I would like to point out that this would basically result in a pure 3D modeling contest if it were held as a MOCing contest. There’s as good as no way to mess up a Metru build enough to be objectively worse than another one.
Hence in those regards an art contest would be the only thing viable at all in my eyes. And that would probably extent to most Toa. Can’t have Varian not look like Norik, right? All Toa Mangai need to look like Lhikan, correct? And at that point it basically would just become slapping different masks/tools on Metru builds.

So yeah, that probably removes at least about half of the viable characters from serious MOCing competitions.


And I’ve also be mulling over the other potential candidates for canon depiction:

First group are the shapeshifting characters - for example Triglax, Kojol, the unmutated Mistika Makuta, the Makuta of Stelt or humanoid Miserix.

I mean, I admit, I’d probably be able to live with pretty much every depiction of them, but they’re shapeshifters, so defining any random canon appearance just because we can is kinda pointless. They can look however someone wants, so why go to all that trouble of defining a specific form of them that was never described in canon?

What could work, however, would be MOCing canon forms these characters took in the lore, so for example Triglax in his De-Toa form or Gorast in her “Blue Titan” form.


So after covering that, what noteable enough characters are even left? Helryx, Winged female Order of Mata Nui member, Lariska, I think potentially one or two Dark Hunters (?), Marendar, Orde, Zaria, Chiara. Those are all I can think of off the top of my head.

Any Toa would be defined a lot by the masks they wear, which I feel would give good 3D modelers an unfair advantage which again means that MOCing contests for them are pointless. The Dark Hunters (except Lariska) I can see happenening. Marendar I can also see happening, but then I’m kinda indifferent to Bara/Spherus Magna lore, so it’s possible others might see that differently. The Winged female Order of Mata Nui member is fair game, I’d say. And Lariska and Artakha are likely a problem, because no matter what happens, there will probably be at least as many people dissatisfied with any depicton of them as people which like it.

So that’s my personal stance in those regards.

Why I still keep voting no, however, is the allowance of 3D modelled parts, inclusion of CCBS and, after it has been brought to my attention, this:

Just like with CCBS this is a case where there is neither right nor wrong. It is unfair to especially younger people to ban CCBS, yet personally I’m just unable to see CCBS in a G1 character build and say “yeah that’d be fine for canon”. Similarly I can see it being unfair to enter an older MOC a lot of people have been refering to as their favorite version of a character for some time already versus a new MOC nobody has seen before. This would make it really hard for newer entries to win, yet if the older MOC wouldn’t be allowed to be entered this would also make a lot of people disappointed and angry. Not to mention the whole dilemma with people who have already put time and effort into something they care about which might now not be allowed to be entered. So there’s really no right choice here.

And if there is no right choice, and there is no need to make a choice, then isn’t the right choice to be against making a choice?

I must disagree. The general consensus within this community seems to be that a hypothetical Artakha set would wear Ekimu’s mask.

If you were to search for “Artakha MOC" on google right now, this is what you will find:


Also, what would you all think of custom parts from constraction bootlegs being used in depiction MOCs? I’m aware that MOCists like @BlackboltJohnson have used Bootleg parts in their MOCs, and probably might do so again in this potential contest if they were given the opportunity to do so.

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Eh… I’m not sure.

I’m one of those that don’t mind 3d printed parts for certain instances, (mostly known masks with no existing images), but I’m not sure I want knock-off parts involved. Unfortunately, that seems kinda hypocritical. Because technically, all 3d printed parts are bootlegs. Know the line is kinda fuzzy. So, in my opinion, it should be restricted the same way as the above, to known masks with no canon appearances.

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Maybe extend the bootleg definition to include painted and custom parts and that could be interesting. Each moc has to have at least least one non lego part; whether that’s custom or bootleg that’s your choice.

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Especially because some characters would have to have painted parts. Varian for example.

Also, do you mean you have to have, or are allowed 1 custom/bootleg part? Because not everyone has custom or bootleg parts.

He’s talking about a bootleg building competition; I’m saying to enter your moc has to have one non original part. Bootleg, paint, sharpie, 3D printed, etc. if it’s not original it counts. It doesn’t need to be perfect just not from lego.

Oh, I thought he meant the use of bootleg parts in the canonization contests.

That is what i meant.

Then my opinions still stand then.

Treat bootlegs like 3d printed parts, usable, but only in certain instances.

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personally. we dont have alot of options atm for bioincle. so lets give it all we can. lets fill in as many gaps as we can and well. try and make sure we complete bioincle g1 as much as possible. but what im wondering is would there be cannon contests for g2? that could also be interesting.

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Probably not, since Greg was only a consultant for G2, we would have to ask the person in charge of that.

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I fail to see how these are equal. Either you:

  1. Allow mocs made within the past decade or two. It’s still possible for a moc made a few months into the future to win.

  2. Ban a decade’s worth of entries so that it’s arguably easier for mocs made a few months from now to win and because new mocs might lose if they have to go up against older mocs. As a result, it would be impossible for mocs made within the past decade to win.

I understand your concern, but treating it with bothsidesism isn’t helpful. Which one excludes the most people?

I’ve been meaning to change some of my mocs (I presume this is allowed), and it would be quite irritating if I was barred because I couldn’t predict that contests would start up a decade after G1 ended. Same thing applies to Silvak’s mocs, BionicleChicken’s drawings, and 3D models made by Galva, KhingK, Petrus, ToaTom, 00Dude00, and 0nuku. They couldn’t predict that there would be canonization contests. If artwork and 3D models are exceptions to the possible rule, then why not mocs? As said in a previous post, where do you draw the line?

In general, I would be indifferent to allowing or disallowing entries made before contests were announced. If this was a contest for Makuta Miserix back in 2008, that’s one thing. The character was written after the contest ended iirc. Canonization contests, that focus on characters made at least a decade ago, should be treated differently.

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Teridax 03’s mask, Icarax’s mask, Mata Nui 09’s mask, Hewkii Mahri’s mask, Ultimate Dume’s mask, all of the Inika masks, Karzahni 07’s mask, all of the Mistika Makuta masks, all of the Hordika masks…

Canonically, masks attach to the face. Build-wise, it has never mattered.

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If a new moc is canonized, I would also like it if the instructions were also canonized. That way no one will have to reconstruct how to build the set from just a picture, and would feel more like an official set, just minus a set number.

I wouldn’t be against 3D printed pieces, as long as the STL file for it was also released. I also would not be against HF helmets being used. The thought of being able to add a new mask to my kanohi collection is exciting! Essentially, I’d be fine with a new set as long as it could actually be built, and that the instructions to build it are official.

For instance, while I think Miserix is a good set, I hate that I don’t have official instructions so I can’t add his mask to my kanohi collection.

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Miserix is a giant dragon man though, I don’t think he has a dedicated mask

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I am indifferent to whether this contest moves forward or not. I like the idea in that it will introduce more community-driven content and participation.

However, I’m also in agreement that it’s too long to resume adding more canonization because people have cemented their own headcanon. I worry that it’ll fall into the same spiral as other franchises (Star Wars, Overwatch, Halo, etc.) in continuing the canon will invalidate community participation and investment when the canon took long lulls between updates when there was little interaction with the community.

A point that I feel I need to point out with the 3D-printed parts is you will need to watch out to ensure you get all the permissions granted. Will fall into a chase where you may have gotten permission from the modeler, but the part will originally have been drawn by another artist.

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Right but the actual figure doesn’t have a mask to collect because it’s a giant dragon man

Yes, System, CCBS and 3D-printed parts should definitely be allowed, creativity shouldn’t be restrained.
My question is, if we like an already existing art/MOC can we vote for it ?

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