That’s always the approach that I pictured in my mind, but I guess I never specified that in so many words… whoops lol
IF a 3D mask was used, I would definitely advocate that it be available to the general public, either through a free-use model or shapeways. It’d probably be a prerequisite for entry, linking to where the mask can be obtained.
Well I don’t want to snuff anyone’s creativity here, and I do believe that Shapeways can provide some pretty cool parts.
However, money and resources is an essential factor here. Most people (as far as I’m aware) build MOCs from the pieces they already have at their disposal, a lot of which are not anymore available in the more recent LEGO sets since circulation has stopped forever ago.
So, these days most people buy the old parts off of Bricklink, but they have to buy it.
And that is not considering custom parts, which can potentially be even more exclusive, and those who can’t buy the parts (or in some cases arent the ones who made the design themselves) are incapable of fairly competing should the custom parts be favored.
I’m okay with this idea, despite having said previously that I am on the fence about continued story changes. I still generally feel that excessive canonization of minor details is a slippery slope, because in many cases, it seemed to me that fans would arbitrarily ask Greg for answers that conformed to their headcanons, so they could say that they and they alone contributed something irrevocable to the lore. There was an incident I remember on BZPower where one of its members had gotten masks and tools for the unnamed Toa Mangai canonized, and then like a week later criticized someone’s fanfic MOCs of them because they did not conform to the canon, which was extremely obvious as an attempt to boast about their accomplishments. That incident turned me off to the idea of canonizing arbitrary details for a while…
However, I think that fan contests were one of the most effective means of canonizing things in the past, because they united the community, stimulated creativity, and relied upon democracy and general agreement to come to a conclusion. With that in mind, I’m okay with bringing them back.
Regarding the 3D-printed pieces issue, I’m fine with allowing them, but I think there should be one specific stipulation involved, which is that the only 3D-printed pieces that can be used in a MOC for a contest should be those that are available to everyone in the community. If someone wants to use a 3D-printed part, they should limit themselves to those that have already been made available for purchase, and if they design one, it should be made available for everyone to purchase and use in the same contest. I do think it would be unfair for those with special skill in 3D modeling (which is a very specific talent that a minority of the community possesses) to have the unfair advantage of being able to create a completely unique piece that no one else can use to give their MOC an edge.
Another option would be, as was said before, to not allow MOC contests for characters with Kanohi of unknown shapes. I don’t necessarily believe that we should forbid that, though. At the end of the day, the BIONICLE canon is a creative canon, and no fan should feel pressured to accept a chosen winner as their own headcanon, especially since G1 is long since over.
Regarding CCBS vs. traditional parts, I’m for the use of CCBS, but I do like the old BZPower (I think?) rule, which was that MOCs using CCBS should attempt to use a majority of G1 pieces, say a 70:30 ratio…
Overall, I’m okay with the idea of renewing fan contests, so long as the rules are deeply thought-out and fair to everyone involved…
You know what, after reading @Toa_Heatwave’a post my opinion is starting to change. I think with his suggestions, the contest would be much more fair.
I just thought of one being in the canon which would be very difficult to depict as a MOC: the Energized Protodermis Entity. By definition, they are made of liquid just like the element that defined their namesake. And seeing as LEGO parts are…well, less than liquid. In fact they are very rigid and plastic. This could also be a case for the support of the smoother CCBS system, but I also believe that custom parts that are designed to be fluid in a appearance could make a much more…well, protodermis entity.
Again, simple artwork would probably be a more viable substitute, but I don’t think the MOCists nor the artists should be alienated from each-other or have their opportunities repressed.
Of all the characters, EPE is probably the one who needs a canon visual depiction the least. He’s an amorphous mass. As far as we know, he could probably look like whatever he wants. In fact, he’s described as looking like a Toa Metru in Maze of Shadows, so you could probably just take Vakama and paint him silver if you really wanted something.
I want Ekimu canonized as a manipulative villain who lied to the G2 Toa and framed the Makuta of Otaku as a villain. Makes G2 a whole lot more interesting then aswell as having it tied to G1
Uh… Greg has no authority on G2’s storyline. That’s not his choice to make.
Limiting the 3D parts usage only to Shapeways would keep people who don’t have the money to spend 10-20 bucks on a single mask (plus 5 bucks in shipping, minimum) out of the contests. That’s not fair to ask of anyone.
After thinking about it more carefully, I have decided to vote no.
I am totally content to leave gaps in canon up to fanon and personal interpretation, and I prefer that it stay that way. I enjoy seeing what the community comes up with, unencumbered by official designs. Plus, there are so many differences in opinion on contest guidelines and procedures that it is likely that I would be unhappy with the results of the contests, and that the whole endeavor would detract from my experience of Bionicle rather than elevate it.
I have heard counterarguments claiming that canonizing MOCs would not restrict people from coming up with their own interpretations, but those arguments undermine the very premise of having a canon MOC to begin with. If the MOC is not canon to me, then I don’t see why having a concept of a “canon” MOC is useful in the first place.
I’m not really sure how to feel about this, especially since the terms haven’t been explicitly laid out. If custom parts and CCBS are explicitly allowed, then I would be more open to having contests. To me it’s similar to buying a car. Having a car would be nice, but if I’m not given the specs beforehand, then it’s more difficult to make an irreversible decision. I digress.
Custom parts have been quite helpful in making MOCs, to the point of which they have rejuvenated my interest in Bionicle. There are so many MOCs that I would have never made if it hadn’t been for people like Galva, KhingK, Petrus, and 00Dude00 going out of their way to bring various designs to life. I wouldn’t have made the Toa Hagah, Makuta Kojol, Steltbro, and the Yesterday Quest Toa team (two of them are down below) if it hadn’t been for these people. If CCBS and custom parts are allowed, then great. I’m honestly surprised by how many people are opposed to this, which has led me to be concerned as to whether these will even be allowed at all. To not allow these parts would significantly hinder the creativity of so many entries, as would inherently excluding CCBS. Some may argue that allowing 3D printed parts requires spending a few bucks, but is there really that much of a difference between spending X amount on obtaining lego pieces and 3D-printed parts?
Another thing that comes into mind is whether previous entries can be modified. The original creator of Makuta Miserix has since built a revamp and it’s far superior to the version she made in 2008. It would be amazing to see other people, such as Vrahno, redo certain designs that they made way back when.
All in all, I like what Annabelle, BionicleChicken, Gonel, Jack, KhingK, Peri, and Petrus have said. I’m happy with my versions of various characters at the end of the day, regardless of whether my photos are featured on a wiki for an old toyline, just as I am happy with Newkirk’s new version of Miserix and other people’s versions of various characters. Based on the current state of the polls, it’s apparent that these canonization contests will happen. Hopefully my concerns will turn out to be unfounded, and I’m more than happy to admit to being wrong if the time comes, but it’s hard not to be lukewarm while at the early stages, especially after witnessing the troubles that occurred during the BZPower days.
My counterpoint to this is that it’s nice for people to get to be creative towards a common goal; the officialness of that goal matters to the people who take part, and doesn’t need to matter one bit to those that do not. Plus, having a canon image allows folks who want a basis to work from to have a widely-accepted depiction that they know will work as a touchstone. If some people don’t want that to be part of their headcanon, it need not be, but it still has some positive power in the same way that having a clear image of Tahu Mistika helps people write stories even if others will completely rewrite his appearance.
This process could be actively useful to those who do like the particular showing of canon in question, and neutrally useless to others; the idea is actively harmful to just about nobody (anyone can be a purist and say that post-2010 stuff just doesn’t count, if they like). Anyone who feels a pressing need to be absolutely 100% accurate to canon is fighting a little bit of a lost cause with this franchise anyway. I mean, I am one of the fighters of that lost cause, but I’m used to Doctor Who so the mental gymnastics are easy by comparison. And again I should actually post things…
Plus, again, fun community reinvigorating experiment stuff. If it flops it flops, but why not give it a go?
I’m still not sure about custom parts. I don’t like to partake in slippery slope thinking so I won’t, but even at base it seems like it would cause some to feel excluded. That’s assuming that there’s a novelty bias, however, which there may not be (the issue looks pretty split down the middle here). Masks would certainly be cool, and I don’t want to exclude those that do like custom parts either. Maybe it could be case-by-case, like a set of challenges to each relating to the character… I’ll just let others decide that one. I’m not too fussed either way so long as creativity happens, which it will.
By that reasoning, there should be no canon designs for any characters. Also, people make revamps all the time, even for official sets. ESPECIALLY for official sets. Having an official design won’t hinder MOCing in the slightest.
Come to think of it, how many times have people made a character revamp of, like, half the roster we’ve come to know and love? Even I’ve done a few before.
Uh, no. I’d love if these contests were just for fun, but imo the Bionicle canon should be over and done with. I think that canonizing MOCs this late in the game is kind of silly and just a recipe for drama.
Again, I am not arguing that it would prevent people from MOCing. I have never made that claim. My argument is that declaring something canon has no value if the community does not regard it as authoritative anyway, and if there are perfectly good fan projects that produce quality fanon content.
You want to make models canon, but at the same time you say that “if you don’t like it, don’t treat it as canon.” Then what is the value of its being canon at all? It’s logically inconsistent.
The official character designs from Lego are different. Those came from a team of professionals with a consistent creative vision and standard of quality.
Never said you were.
And, again, I can take that same reasoning to say nothing should be canon. People clearly want to be able to point to a design and say “here’s what Lariska/Helryx/etc. looks like.” It’s a matter of convenience. I have wanted to know what the hell Lariska looks like for well over a decade; now, I finally have the chance to find out. It just makes it easier to produce a mental image when reading the books and serials.
I never said to do that. I said that revamps have always been made and always will be made, regardless of whether or not there even is a canon design. Look at all the Tahu MOCs out there. If each was a person, I kid you not, you could populate a whole country with 'em.
Tell that to every canon design we already have. Again, by your logic, nothing should be canon. Also, now we have the chance to submit an actual pile of meat for Tren Krom’s design. Do not deny me this.
That has no bearing on my point whatsoever. Doesn’t matter if a professional Lego employee designs a character or if a talented fan does; these characters’ canonical appearances are writ in stone, be they Tahu or Kyry, and we can’t do anything about it. We can still make MOCs of these characters however we like, and the existing MOCs won’t go away. We lose nothing from canonizing designs.
Excellent points here. Despite voting yes on this, I do think it could have unintentional consequences.
I wonder–would it be a beneficial idea to maybe have the results of these contests have a “semi-canon” status. Take the way canon has existed in Star Wars over its various eras. Before the Disney acquisition, George Lucas had his own canon, which he considered to be the films alone (and the Clone Wars TV Show, I believe), whereas everything else, such as the EU novels, video games, and other media were considered part of a sub-canon, not entirely official, but generally accepted as accurate and canonical. Similarly, after Disney purchased Lucasfilm, the EU was lumped together under the “Legends” category.
Might there be a way for these new contests (which, as @Kodiak points out, are likely to resume based on the poll results) to render results that are “unofficially canon?” As in, winning entries could be depicted on BS01 and other wikis as canon, but with explicit reference to being a fan depiction, one that could perhaps, in-story, be an example of incomplete Matoran records or folk tales. That way, the stuff the contests do can be both canon for those who wish it, but framed in such a way that those who wish to use artistic license aren’t bound by them…
Thats a… REALLY GREAT IDEA! No joke. I actually like it!
I think my friend, you have just struck gold. You might have just figured out the way to make almost every happy. I applaud you good sir!
Looks like my 2 cents won’t be nessacry!
I am fully in favor of this, especially if unseen masks get official designs because of it. Maybe decide mask designs in separate contests from the MOCing ones, though.
