Something to consider for G3 Makuta

Ok, so let me tell you about a little franchise called Bionicle. You guys may have heard of it. It's alright, but the villain is actually rather weak. Why? Well, you see, Makooti the Bionic Man has pretty boring motivations. He wants to take over the universe because...he's greedy. That's it. I mean, the most we learn about this is that he was inspired to become Makutalexander the Gr8 after wiping the floor with the Barraki. That's it. He's just a megalomaniac. This has been done to DEATH in fiction, and it's really getting old.

G2 was a little better because its Makuta did what he did more out of envy than pure greed, but he was still very weak. Villains shouldn't just be "oh, I'm a bad guy, I do bad things, hurr hurr," they should work as their own characters. Neither G1 nor G2 really got it right. Both Makutas are linear and uninteresting.

My point is this: For TTV's G3, Makuta should not be so black-and-white. He should not be opposing the Toa just because he wants power, or just because he's salty. There should be an underlying, more intricate reason for what he does. Maybe he's Mata Nui's biological brother, and he believes that he's protecting him because he went mad; or maybe he's actually protecting the Matoran from something that would otherwise be freed along with Mata Nui. This would make him less of a walking cliche and more of a person, someone we could identify with and understand.

Rant over. Kek-man out.

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Just sayin'

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This was later retconned, though. We learn later in the saga that he just wanted to conquer the MU; and I think the consensus is that the "I'm guarding my homie" dialogue was him taunting Takanuva. Had that motivation not been written out, Makuta as a villain would be a lot more interesting.

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I actually completely agree, people often comment on how Makuta seems really intimidating and has a plan for everything but I always found him kinda cliché.
I think the smaller villains who served Makuta but had their own seperate agenda (such as Zaktan or Roodaka) were more interesting, not to mention the Barraki alll have unique personalties (to some extent) and Tuma is way more developed in Legacy of the Skrall.

Something I have to ask you is how do you feel Makuta should be portrayed? TTV seem pretty set on the idea of Makuta wanting to cleanse the island with his Rahi and the Rahkshi being a cult that follows him so how would you change that to make him less Generic?

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If that's the motivation they want, then what would make Makuta interesting is if he genuinely believed that he was doing something good. He might see Matoran as a plague, a danger to the world itself or its inhabitants, and he wants to wipe them out to clean it all it must be cleaned clean it all it--er, what I mean is, as long as Makuta's reasons for "cleansing" the island go beyond "he's evil," then he is more solid as a character.

His personality must also coincide with his motives. If he thinks he's doing good, but is aware that what he's doing is also morally dubious, he might come off as a regretful old man or something. If he doesn't see anything wrong with it, he might instead be a generally pleasant guy. If he's driven by greed, then he could be all pompous and threatening to go with that, like in G1. And so on. It would be really weird if he was like Bionicle Hitler, but he was also really nice and cheery. That just wouldn't line up.

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So what your saying is that you want Makuta to be Dr. Horrible. "The world is broken and I just need to rule it."

Also if you don't understand this comment, go to YouTube and look up Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog, it will be the best forty-two minutes you've ever speant.

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I mean, that's also a valid motivation. I'd be down for a villain like that.

Personally, I would like a Makuta who is interested in one thing; Progress and power.

And not in the stereotypical, selfish sort of way. I want a Makuta who thinks the people of the island are 'lazy fools' who aren't using their talents to become powerful and create new tech, and is a scientific character who wants to 'throw aside the shackles of morality' that prevents him from doing his advancements at a much quicker pace.

I guess he'd sort of be like a combination of Bill Cipher from Gravity Falls and Father from Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood- A power-seeking, knowledge-hungry being who believes the 'rules' of not only society, but even the universe, is some act of tyranny and wants to break free in order to have access to infinite progression, ability, and knowledge, no matter the cost of 'inferior' lives.

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nope, not at all.

/s

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Are you talking about that silly action figure line about ugly robots wearing tiki masks? Yeah, I might've heard about it.

Jokes aside, I'm working on a major rewrite of G1. No, it's not a reboot, it actually keeps most of the 2001-2005 lore intact and 2006 will be there, although heavily modified. One of the things I'm sure I'll change is the characterisation of the Makuta because what they did to him in the canon is a friggin' shame. They could've easily explored the 'Slumber spares him pain, awake se suffers' motivation stated in the movie but for some reason they decided to ditch it in favour of writing him as a generic evil megalomaniac who wrecked havoc upon the whole world because of a vague sense of unwarranted jealousy.

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I feel like G1 Makuta was a little more complex than you give him credit for. He was a loyal servant up until the Barraki uprising, which planted the thought in his mind that maybe HE could accomplish what the Barraki failed to do. He wasn't just like "Bwahahah i'm evil" he grew into a villain, it's just at the time Bionicle was introduced he was already turned to the darkside. It's sort of like how in New Hope we saw Darth Vader and then we got more depth to him in Empire Strikes Back and RotJ and THEN we saw....Anakin in...the prequels.

G2 Makuta on the other was ALL over the place, his pride and ambition was a good motive but I feel it was delivered poorly, I was fond of the concept that the Mask of Ultimate power corrupted Makuta's noble ambitions but the Comic, Animation and JtO made it to where a good concept like "wanting to make the MoUP to help people" kind of got overshadowed because he made it not out of genuine concern but merely as a way to 1-Up Ekimu and get some recognition (and the MoUP maybe amplified these feelings of ambition and pride). I would have liked to have seen Makuta with a more tragic backstory like Garmadon.

Like for example, maybe instead of Ambition and Pride it was Curiosity and the need to help others that drove Makuta to experiment more with Masks than his brother who was stuck on tradition and "The old ways" and this is what leads Makuta to make the MoUP which Ekimu knocks off but instead of Makuta being banished to the Shadow Realm, the Explosion knocks him away, he wakes up filled with the need to reacquire the power he had while wearing the Mask, and he comes to blame his brother for his failures and the problems on Okoto, and then at some point he like encounters the Skull Raiders beats them up, takes charge and commands them. Then for year two he could go find Umarak and send him after the Toa and the other Creatures, and for year 3 he could have some reforge the Mask of Ultimate power (maybe using the Toa's old Masks or something) and this time he controls it, beats the crud out of the Toa, forcing Ekimu to summon Agil and become Toa of Light who then empowers the Toa and together they defeat him, Ekimu treats Makuta using the power of light to I don't know heal the Darkness within or something and we think he's healed an all that. Then if Bionicle continued to a 4th year they could either make a new villain and have Makuta be a protagonist (maybe like a harder teacher than Ekimu for the Toa) or he still had a sliver of evil and it's slowly taking over him! (bum bum buuuum)

Just my thoughts though, not saying this is how it should be.

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While of course that whole "take over the world" stuff of G1 Teridax was pretty generic, I feel like he had more or less proper motivations for it.

The Makuta were created by Mata Nui to populate the Matoran Universe with Rahi. Later they decided to also get involved in politics, working in favor of the Matoran and in the name of the Great Spirit. Mata Nui therewhile became less and less interested in what was going on inside the Matoran Universe - to a point where all he actually did was keeping the basical life supprot systems working within him. Still the Matoran worshipped him instead of the Makuta who had done so much more for them - even worse, the Matoran seemed to not even care about the Makuta and their doings.

Then the Barraki decided to overthrow Mata Nui and were stopped by the Brotherhood. And Teridax began thinking about if and how that could actually be done. Of course there's a certain amount of greed in that, but his basical idea was this: Who is worthy of ruling the Matoran Universe? The Great Spirit who doesn't care or the Makuta who for millennia have been doing everything in their power to help the Matoran?

Also I imagine that the Makuta's immense power played a role in why Teridax decided it should be them who ruled - I would go as far as to say that the Makuta were the most powerful beings in all of the Matoran Universe. The fact aside that in most canon fights the Makuta's power doesn't come to its full... advantage, can you think of any being that could realisticly rival a Makuta in raw power? Tren Krom probably is mentally stronger, but I don't doubt that a Makuta could bring up enough willpower withstand him long enough to disaggregate him into his atoms. Karzahni? Teridax pretty much destroyed him after he got past the Olisi's power. Artakha? Well, he also seems to have stronger telepathic powers than the Makuta - but otherwise? Let's also not forget that Artakha didn't confront Kojol personally when he stole the Avohkii.

Teridax's and the other Makuta's frustration about the Matoran worshipping Mata Nui and not acknowledging the deeds of the Makuta at all led to a certain pull to the... let's say "Dark Side", though. It began with stuff like the Archives Massacre with which Teridax stopped the Matoran Civil War. Later the Makuta even purged themselves of their inner light.

So in the end the Makuta started as the protectors of the Matoran and everything that was good. Then they witnessed how their "god" retired from the world more and more and decided to take his place in order to keep the Universe save and protected even without him. The greed and lust for power eventually made the Makuta become tyrants, though, and eventually Teridax even aspired divinity.

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I'd Say there's a few beings that could rival Makuta(excluding Velika)

I'd put Brutaka and Axxon up there (even though Teridax was toying with him). I tend to treat Teridax's comments about that battle in his "Guide to the Universe" as a result of his hubris rather than a concise analysis. Brutaka's mask is a bit of a wildcard and he even threatened a Makuta by demonstrating he could just open up a portal of shadow feeding creatures underneath his feet, who's to say he couldn't do the same to other Makuta?

Also all Makuta were threatened by Toa's of Light, Iron and Magnetism but I don't think there was anyone in canon who really stood a chance here, I just want to note that if one of them took the initiative (and maybe broke the "no killing" rule") they could have possible destroyed even Teridax

Also going out into other Universe's Toa Tuyet with the Nui Stone preeeetty much made Teridax and all other Makutas seem pretty pathetic (but this example is more circumstantial and less of a reflection in regards to Toa Tuyet's personal skill and power)

Makuta are powerful for sure and exceptional beings but I don't think they're the most powerful beings in the Matoran universe and honestly their powers and abilities are variant from individual to individual. So I'd say Teridax and Miserix were just exceptionally powerful individuals. Beings who could and did rival the best of the best (save a few). But I wouldn't go as far as to say they were the most powerful. (though they certainly did have a lot of variety and advantages than most other beings)

Here I completely Disagree with your verdict. While yes, I think Makuta probably wouldn't fall victim to any mental attack, I do think you're severely underestimating how powerful Tren Krom actually is. I mean he was basically made to do Mata Nui's job for a bit. Dude disintegrated Carapar like he was nothing. (In fact given his lore I'd say Tren Krom was THE most powerful being in the Matoran universe because he was made to run it for a time). His only limitation really was just that he was a prisoner and couldn't leave from where he was placed.

I do agree with the rest of your points though. :smile:

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What if Makuta was a good brother to Mata Nui, but with the balance of the universe demanded one of the original beings bring darkness to the other's light to promote neutrality? What if a higher-up cosmic being controls the influence of good and evil among the beings of the universe and feeds on neutrality, thus creating more so that it may survive long enough to maintain control over all living things, thus creating a crisis where the Toa are obligated to let evil live, and sympathise it knowing that the Makuta is just a puppet?

I think maybe a motive similar to Reus' from Ace Attorney 6. Maybe he messed up while making a mask and hurt someone, and someone, possibly Ekimu, kicked him out/did something else that would make him salty for it. Then he would want to break and humiliate Ekimu and the Protectors in a want for revenge.

@Spacenid

With "rival a Makuta in raw power" I meant a fight one on one with no special advantages on either side.

Of course the fighting skills of the Makuta differ from individual to individual and the power they can unleash is to some extend linked to their physical form (Teridax as Dume for example was weaker than after he absorbed Nidhiki, Krekka and Nivawk)

So, in raw power I don't think Axonn or Brutaka would stand much of a chance, but of course Brutaka's Olmak grants him quite an advantage. SInce Brutaka is now half Makuta, that might cause some changes, though...

Tuyet with the Nui Stone was able to potentially unleash more raw power - but only with enough Toa nearby to charge it.

About to of Light, Iron or Magnetism - I don't hink they would be able to kill a Makuta on their own with the Makuta's full attention on them. Only Toa of Light would be able to kill a Makuta on their own anyway. Toa of Iron and Magnetism could only destroy the Makuta's armor - also since Makuta have magnetic powers, too, I imagine that they could counteract another beings magnetic powers to some extend.

As to Tren Krom - that he controlled the Matoran Universe prior to Mata Nui doesn't make him especially powerful, it only granted him immense knowledge about the Matoran Universe (which he most of the time couldn't really use to his advantage on his island, though).

But well, what was Carapar supposed to do to protect himself?
A Makuta could have teleported away, make the attack simply pass through by becoming intangible - maybe a Makuta even could have countered the attack with a disintegration beem of his own.

It's really a shame that we never got a proper battle between Makuta in the canon story - that would likely have given a nice explanation of what Makuta could do, how quick their reflexes where and how well their defenses.
Basically all I say about the dimensions of their powers has to be speculation based on how many different powers they have...

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I seem to recall that Toa of Iron were basically hunted to extinction by the Brotherhood, since their powers could simply shred a Makuta's armor. No armor, no vessel, and thus they're reduced to a wonderful little cloud.

Seems like if they were worried enough about Toa of Iron to hunt every last one of them down, they posed a pretty hefty threat.

Ooooon the other hand, we don't know a couple important numbers.
How many Makuta went to each Toa?
And how many of the Makuta died in the process of exterminating the Toa of Iron?

Which basically leaves this a useless argument because we don't know either of those facts.

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They were, although this probably started not until Teridax's Toa Hagah betrayed their master. A lot of Toa of Iron actually were Toa Hagah - and after said rebellion were promptly executed.
The Brotherhood monitored all Fe-Matoran and Toa of Iron ever since their evolution, though.

Yeah, we really lack numbers, but most Toa of Iron were probably hunted down by Rahkshi, Visorak or Dark Hunters. Perhaps only one Makuta led these efforts and actively participated in them - the one who was eventually killed by Toa Zaria. I don't think it's described anywhere how exactly Zaria accomplished this, though. Most likely he simply crushed the Makuta's armor and Troodax (to use the name from the Brotherhood Project :wink:) wasn't able to find a new body before his Antidermis began to dissipate.

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Yuuup this. A Makuta without Armor is a dead Makuta walking. Teridax lucked out because the Piraka stumbled into his lair and he managed to put some thoughts in their heads and made a vat for himself. Yes they can survive of course but ultimately without outside aid they're pretty much helpless.

This isn't totally true. Tren Krom had access to WAAAAAY more power than that. We just never got to see how powerful he was. Even the Makuta spoke grimly of him

"Tren Krom is no myth. He is older than the stars themselves, born in a time when there was no Mata Nui, no Makuta, only never-ending darkness that encompassed all. He walked through a universe in the throes of its birth, and even the shadows feared him."
— Makuta Mutran, The Mutran Chronicles

He has great mental powers but the dude is probably 2nd only to Mata Nui himself in the Matoran Universe I only used the eyebeams as an example that he had powers that were beyond just mind control or mental attacks and given how he is spoken of in the lore I highly suspect he has more powers that weren't explicitly stated. Who knows what else he was capable of. And I feel it's fair to note that the only REAL example of him in combat was in Toa Lewa's body which was EXTREMELY limiting for him as he lost most of his powers.

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While we're completely off topic and talking about Tren Krom, I'd like to jump in and remind people that he was completely organic, unlike anything else seem in the Bionicle universe (or multiverse to my knowledge), and that undoubtedly came with some interesting perks, including people being driven mad by the mere sight of him. It wasn't just that he had immense psychic powers, his very form boggled the mind of all those who beheld It, which I assume would also make them more susceptible to psychic attacks, given that it's a lot harder to keep people from messing with your mind when your mind is already unraveling on it's own.

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