Star Wars Topic

I don’t think I can see this story as integral as long as the roots of the story are a mess. Execution is more important then how interesting an idea sounds in theory.

4 Likes

In response to your hidden statement, I kind of think of it as similar to Cal Kestis’ story, wear he forgets certain basic Force abilities as a consequence of him suppressing them for five years. In fact, there are a lot of parallels between Kenobi and Fallen Order, and while the latter may have definitely been better executed, there still are a few redeeming qualities in the former. That’s more of a perspective, though, and your opinions also make sense to me. I do agree there was some severe mishandling of the show as a whole, but it did enough interesting and well-done things that I would say I definitely see it in a more positive than negative light.

I just wish I wasn’t so conflicted on Book of Boba Fett, though…

4 Likes

In my opinion, I don’t think anything was severely mishandled, mostly that certain things didn’t totally follow through. Per analogy, it’s like building a Lego set and having a super-strong core but forgetting to add all of the aesthetic pieces that could really make it pop.
Even though these were developed at similar times, I do think that Kenobi addressed and fixed a bunch of the flaws of BoBF by having a consistent arc for the main character, side characters that service the plot, no real sense of filler or unnecessary sidebars, and almost no reliance on cameos at all. I’d say it was, overall, a success.

4 Likes

I’ve only watched the first two episodes of Obi-Wan Kenobi, but I have to say, I like what I’ve seen. It’s really interesting, and it feels like an actual story unlike BOBF. Plus, as others have said, it seems to be bridging the gap between ROTS and ANH in terms of Obi-Wan’s characterization.

I know people are hating on the show for its “bad writing” and “poorly handled characters,” but…well, let me quote a conversation I had with a real-world friend recently:

My Friend: I know the media hates Obi-Wan Kenobi [the show]…
Me: What do you expect? The media hates all new Star Wars content.
My Friend: That’s true.

Except The Mandalorian…until it rolls out a “bad” season and everybody suddenly starts trashing the first two seasons

1 Like

The Clone Wars spent seven seasons (well, six, I don’t think greviount showed up in season 7) dodging around the fact that Anakin never meets Grievous, because of a line in III.

Kenobi managed to contradict at least five lines from the movies in only one season.

Impressive.

8 Likes

who?

1 Like

uh… you wanna give examples on that statement? pretty sure many more people would use a similar argument when it comes to things the Prequels have contradicted when it comes to the OT.

1 Like
  1. “I haven’t gone by the name Obi-Wan since before you were born.” Obi-Wan, A New Hope
    This one is one of the weakest, I’ll admit. For one, it could just be an exaggeration – he went by Obi-Wan for a few days in the last 9 years. Two, he famously lies to Luke about his dad, so he’s not the most trustworthy at the moment. I really just wanted to point it out because I stumbled upon it while looking for the next one.

  2. “You served my father in the Clone Wars…” Leia, A New Hope
    Basically Leia’s entire speech is an introduction to someone she has clearly never met and only heard about. As if that isn’t enough, she gives no reaction to his death, because he’s just a guy she was supposed to taxi to Alderaan.

  3. “I sense a presence, one I have not felt since…” & “the circle is now complete. When last we met, I was but the learner; now, I am the master.” Darth Vader, A New Hope
    The first one is vague enough that it could be “since nine years ago”, but the second? He literally says they haven’t met since Mustafar. And George Lucas himself has said they never met, which is basically a Greg Quote.

  4. “Why can’t I see you?” “Because I never finished my training.” Yoda and Qui-Gon, The Clone Wars Season 6
    Okay, so this one isn’t in the movies, but I thought I’d point it out: Qui-Gon cannot appear as a Force Ghost. He’s only a disembodied voice. You might argue that it’s kinda obscure, being in a seven season tv series; which is fair, but you think someone could have checked to see if there was a reason we never see him?

  5. “Rise, Lord Vader.” Palpatine to Anakin, which Obi-Wan sees, Revenge of the Sith
    “You were taken to Tatooine to hide you from your father.” Obi-Wan, Return of the Jedi
    Yeah, Obi-Wan knew all along that Anakin was Vader, and that he survived… Maybe. This one is really fudgy. At this point, Obi-Wan is finally being honest with Luke; this is where he tells Luke he has a sister. However, that doesn’t mean he isn’t simplifying a bit – “you were taken to hide you from the Emperor, and then I learned your father was alive and had to hide you from him too.”

  6. “They’ve tracked us through lightspeed.” “That’s impossible.” Leia and Finn, The Last Jedi
    “Hyperspace tracking is new tech.” -Rose
    Okay, so “new” is kinda vague. But Rose knows all about it, knows how it works in great detail, and Leia doesn’t know it exists. But her father tracks the kidnappers ship to another planet… Somehow.

Some of these are certainly nitpicks, like 1 and 6. 4 is debatable because we haven’t seen how season two will play out, how much role Qui-Gon might have. But 2 and 3 are not nitpicks, because they mean the entire show cannot happen.

Off the top of my head, I can think of two.

  1. “do you remember your mother?” “Yes, just barely; she died when I was really young.” Luke and Leia, Return of the Jedi
    I’ll grant you, this is definitely a contradiction. Personally, my headcanon explanation is just that Leia is misrembering, perhaps remembering someone she met as a child. But I’ve always said a headcanon explanation doesn’t count, so I’ll hold to that and give you this one.

  2. “I don’t recall ever owning a droid.” Obi-Wan, A New Hope
    Like I said, he’s kinda lying all over the place in this scene. Besides, he does add “especially not an artoo unit” Which is true; he never owned Artoo, Anakin did.

7 Likes

The Clone Wars also kind of contracts Anakin’s “My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count” in ROTS by having him and Dooku duel on at least more than one occasion (the TCW film and the Rako Hardeen arc, off the top of my head; there might be more). Sure, you could say that Anakin is referring to whatever their most recent duel is, but its pretty clear that their AOTC duel was what was originally being referred to.

Honestly, I’ve just come to accept retcons as a natural part of Star Wars, just as it was with Bionicle. It might not be a good thing, but it has never affected my enjoyment of the stories and probably never will, unless they do something truly outrageous, which they haven’t yet in my book. Tempting fate, I know.

6 Likes

I’m not disagreeing, but at the same time, A new Hope can’t seem to decide how Princess Leia’s name is pronounced.

4 Likes

Anakin #2 walks into view
Dooku: “no, that can’t be true, it’s impossible!”
Anakin #1: “you ever heard of this place called Kamino?”
Obi-Wan: “this is getting out of hand; now there are two of him!”
Palpatine: “it’s a trap!”
Padme: “a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one”

7 Likes

Like Leia walking off a building to get away from Kenobi?

1 Like

I don’t. When it was under Lucas the movies were supposed to be final word. I refuse to let these retcons roll over what was once good.

5 Likes

I mean, George has retconned himself before, with Obi-Wan knowing R2 before a new hope, as well as how prevailing jedi seem to be in the prequels compared to the mysticism and mythical nature they seem to have in the original trilogy.

2 Likes

Obi-Wan only says he never owned Artoo (which is correct, Artoo was Anakin’s). And the Jedi still are mystics in the prequels, what are you on about? The mysticism was never retconned, Lucas simply expanded on it’s innerworkings.

Regardless this still means the movies were final word. And Lucas was the one who created Star Wars and had a unified vision for it all. I dislike how corporate, stale, and messy the new state of affairs is, without any distinct themes or moral lessons to drive the stories anymore. Lucas told legends, Disney only desires a paycheck.

3 Likes

I’m talking about the public’s perspective on jedi. Han Solo doesn’t believe in Jedi even though Chewbacca was duking it out with Yoda in episode 3. You’re telling me that in 19ish years, the jedi went from being recognized as peacekeapers/enforcers of the government to people not believing they existed at all without some sort of compromise of vision? It’s not a stretch to say that Lucas’s vision for the jedi in the prequels changed from his vision for them in the original trilogy.

1 Like

I’m confused then, you called it “mysticism”, what does that have to do with religious/spiritual practices?

Yes. We’re both young folks, but minds change over a period of two decades, a lot happens. Remember that a period of around the same time passed between the two World Wars, where the world changed incredibly rapidly. A lot happens in two decades, people forget wrongs and happenings from even five years ago. (I know fellow AFOLs who forgot BIONICLE even came back in 2015 despite how it was big news on LEGO websites.)

You also forget about Order 66 causing a mass majority of them to be killed undercover by their own troops. To the point where the Jedi go from thousands of members to basically around a dozen. With hardly any around, yeah they’re gonna become stories.

Except the vision for the prequels was built off of the foundations of the OT. Of course he didn’t write the prequels back then, but with the writing of the prequels we can see he was trying his hardest to make them connect to the OT. Why else include elements like the Clone Wars, the rise of the Empire, and the story of Anakin? I would argue Lucas desired his saga to remain consistent, a thorough world with intricate political and religious struggles, these things also prevalent even in Episode 4.

So yes, I think it’s a stretch. Especially when Lucas himself consistently made call backs to the OT in regards to the Prequel’s marketing. He wanted the prequels to fit his original vision, and IMO he succeeded.

2 Likes

Couple thousand Jedi.

Billions of people on one planet.

Multiple planets.

Most of the public probably never met a Jedi. They probably knew the Jedi existed, but may not have seen the Force in action.

Currently there’s 32 known, canon survivors.

5 Likes

I only watch the films and movies nowadays, I had a feeling I might miss some. Still, that is a VERY small number.

4 Likes

Oh yeah, I’m not that deep into the lore, I could probably only list a handful of them; I just happened to see the number in a recommended video on YouTube a few days ago.

1 Like