I dont really agree with your overall point but this made me laugh, I appreciate that
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It would be pretty cool if Mata Nui gave all of the Glatorian elemental powers though.
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This is the wake up call we deserve. I am really sorry for the part I played in this situation. As a passionate Bionicle fan, looking back at my previous comments, my behavior was unwarranted. Even if my true identity is anonymous, it’s obviously important to be civil. I can empathize based on personal external factors outside the message board.
The importance of mental health has become transparent as this pandemic progresses. I genuinely wish the best for @Eljay and Meso moving forward from this current situation. Us fans are happy and appreciative to see Bionicle enthusiasts like yourself giving us the opportunity to spread our joy for this franchise and canonize our favorite characters. I will hold myself accountable moving forward to minimize toxicity at least on my end.
Stay healthy and stay safe! 
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Hope you both are able to take the well deserved rest you need. Best wishes!
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Given my very active participation in the contest discourse leading up to the end of the Hagah MOC results, I’ve decided to briefly return from a likely permanent hiatus to offer my thoughts:
I have pretty much checked out of the Bionicle community, as a direct result of the exhausting and futile nature of the contests and the contest debates. This is principally because of my own passion for Bionicle at the time, and my holding of an unpopular but nonetheless valid opinion that put me on the anti-contest side of the fence. While I ultimately decided my viewpoint did not warrant the contests to end outright, it did shape my dissatisfaction with the inherent premise of the canon contests. I, like many others, have very strict criteria on what the canon designs should/shouldn’t have (e.g. a consistent, set-like appearance for the Hagah) and additionally would prefer to know that my interpretations of the characters, which were made specifically to fill in canonical gaps, did not have to be adjusted or scrapped to work with the new canon. That was something I’d metaphorically die on a hill for, and as a consequence of my dissatisfaction with the winning Hagah designs, I felt defeated.
Time away from the community and the contests was really the only thing that allowed me to tolerate the winning Hagah. The reason for that was, unfortunately, that I’d lost my passion for Bionicle. It’s a shame that ‘not caring’ about something I was once so passionate about was the only way to alleviate the stress, and it appears to me that this is something others have experienced as a result of the contests - whether that be because of the contests themselves, or just the forum discourse. It’s a shame that some of the most passionate fans (some of whom I know or have conversed with off-site) seem to be the most disenfranchised.
I’m not here to argue one way or another for whether the contests should continue, because I neither feel it is right or worth my effort. But it’s worth drawing attention to the fact that there are certainly more than just ~10 dissenters. Maybe it’s just ten that are particularly vocal here, but if the reception to Kini’s message (however harsh it might have been) is any indication, there are certainly more people out there who are exhausted, whether they’re in favour or against the contests in principle.
I do think the contests can run more smoothly with the extra support that Eljay mentioned. I was one of the people that argued for this a while ago, because there was plenty of good feedback that was being neglected and plenty of vitriol that wasn’t being stamped out. I would also go out on a limb by saying I think a lot of Eljay’s hostile, unfriendly, undiplomatic or controversial posts would vanish if some of the burden was taken off his shoulders. Were I to continue engaging in the forums going forward, I have no doubt my main qualm with the contests would be his conduct. And I have no doubt it’s contributed to feeding the anti-contest fire either. I’ve spoken to Eljay in person a few times before, and he was incredibly kind and supportive. But he has since tarnished that reputation by not keeping his cool with people. Meso, on the other hand, has been a model of politeness and diplomacy - the quintessential ‘good politician’.
One thing that I don’t think has been mentioned before: I sincerely hope that any episodes of Nak & Jay going forward will not mention upstanding community members by name if it’s to criticise or complain about them. I was not happy with the treatment of a particular member of RSG who was mentioned by name. There was no reason to mention them, so the whole thing came across as immature - especially considering you claimed you weren’t out to cast shade on anyone who turned down the offer to engage with the contests. This would have been fine if you weren’t running the contests, but unfortunately you’re going to have to play the politician if you want to stop making enemies.
And one last thing, though this point has been done to death already: while I’m now mostly indifferent about whether the contests should continue or not (most of the characters I have a strong headcanon for are out of the way now), I think it’s completely warranted to poll the community on how they feel about the contests continuing. It’s been two years, and there’s been a lot of time for people to change their minds or return to the community in the meantime.
So that’s me done. I will be around to vote for entries and possibly enter the Varian and Marendar contests, but my vehement passion for Bionicle has waned for the time being. It’s a shame, but it’s true.
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well… I have to say something…
Even though I’m in position to hope that contest will continue, I’m still anxious.
In the end, this state does not know how and when the ongoing contest will be completed.
TTV need to be more specific about the grace period and break period. from the next contest
There will be a lot of people who have hope because of this word. The same goes for me.
Because the entries for this art contest are much less than the previous two contests despite the extension of the period, so I thought it could be finished faster.
It’s been three months.and I know it’s hard now.
In the end, we got only one contest in 2021, and we can’t guarantee that even that will end this year.
Just as setting a target period for anything do is very helpful when finish it, please schedule the contest in detail, such as the deadline for submission and the start date of voting.
Yes, it is much better to specify the period in advance than a month of silence.
it needs to be a little more systematic.
I know you guys are busy.
But even though we have our own lives, there are people who are very interested in the contest and are willing to give you their time.
Fortunately, more than 20 people want to help you and you intend to elect some of them. If so, we are ready to hold a contest with a more systematic time plan.
I’m buying as many parts as possible because I’m thinking of participating in as many contests as possible.
If the contest is stopped for a trivial reason by someone…
I’ll take off their shoes, scatter my bonkle parts on carpet, and let them walk on them.
Keep in mind, I started using a lot of system parts these days.
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I second this part^
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Well this is disheartening
It’s unfortunate that we can’t simply have a good natured contest without it being ruined.
I am now of the firm opinion that this is beyond salvage, and while I’m sure that management may have had some part to play in it, the community or at least the very vocal and toxic side of it has just as much of a part to play into it.
I initially didn’t care about the canonization contests much at all. I was a little wary of it, but ultimately thought it’d be a neat little thing. So glad to see that after however long it’s been it’s only served as a point of contention and drama within the community because having nice things is too hard.
I don’t doubt that Meso and Eljay have some part to play into the mess, but if it was just them I’d probably still believe that the contests were salvageable. After all, management can be fixed and improved and taking steps to do that is a good direction, so kudos to you two. But with the toxicity and everything that has infused the general community regarding stuff like Hoseryx and what not, I can’t imagine that this is in any salvageable state.
It’s slightly depressing honestly, and definitely assures me that staying uninvolved in all this was the correct choice.
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Attempting to add a state of hopelessness isn’t really beneficial either, to be honest. Sort of taints the intent of improvement and could be considered toxic in its own right.
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Who said the contests were ruined? We’re still getting results, are we not? It’s true that the contests aren’t running as efficiently as everyone might have hoped, but I don’t see how that equates to the contests being “ruined”.
This is a pretty bold claim to make, especially when the contests are held more or less independently of each other. What has happened to make you believe that none of the future contests can get legitimate results?
If your expectation for a community event is “no one will be mean about it anywhere on the internet”, you’ll never be able to do anything. Personally, I have found the atmosphere around the contests here on TTV to be generally polite, even if there are strong disagreements.
At the end of the day, any toxicity that you are describing can be (and has been) fixed with the changes in moderation that you endorsed. If someone is truly being such a detriment to the community that they are dragging down the integrity of the contests as a whole, they would simply be banned from the contests.
You aren’t the first person to say this, but I still don’t understand why it is used as an anti-contest argument. If you want to be completely uninvolved in something like this, that’s totally reasonable; you laid it out above very well why you feel this way. But why does that mean that no one else should be allowed to experience the contests?
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To use an example the artist behind the winning Artakha art asked to have their own credit revoked from the winning artwork
Talk:Artakha (Being) - BIONICLEsector01 If the contests were run better this likely hadn’t happened. And more people would be willing to participate. As it happened with Artakha, some people want to be more careful in what they attach themselves to.
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Do people actually like experiencing the contests proper?
I feel like people liked the idea, that people like seeing cool MOCs (Though I would argue that the MOC section of the boards always gets a tad boring after a few days of very similar characters), and some people even like the results. But the actual process? The entry period, the voting, the discussions surrounding it, the post-contest spike in parts prices, all that? Pretty sure the only people that enjoy that part are people who like getting in fights on the Internet.
These threads are a perpetual barrage of people scouring the Greg Archive for anything that proves their point. They breed arguments. They’re the thing people have to suffer through to get the parts they do like.
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I feel like this arguement is a bit of a double edged sword because its not just the canon efficionados who argue on these boards about this contest. While yes there is going to be arguments over what’s canon or not but at the end of the day the Greg quotes should be what goes, right?
Now I’ve seen people arguing for the idea that the canon contest should throw out any regard for canon. Surely these people are part of the problem as well. Because such remarks will generally rile up the people who are interested in canon and canon accuracy. Which sparks debates that are seemingly pointless.
My point is that everyone in the situation we are currently in are to blame in some capacity. Because we all need to work on our ability to be respectful to each other.
So I say no more inventing canon or tell others not to enjoy canon how they want too going forward.
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Yeah here. While I havent given many comments about each contest myself I enjoy them very much yes. Have always followed them with quite the interest almost daily.
Of course I cant speak for anyone else but… im at least one example for that and I doubt im that much of an exception
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Allow everything that isn’t simply made in bad faith/as a pure joke (Hoseryx)
Let the voters decide the rest, if they think the moc has too much system well then they won’t vote for it. The Greg quotes should work as guidelines and inspiration. not as rules written in stone.
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That’s not how canon works. Greg quotes are established facts about the canon so yes they are rules. Also its not like Greg is super specific about stuff all the time in those quotes so there is still room to do out of the box things.
What the voters vote on doesn’t matter much if non of the models actually attempts to be faithful to the canon in the first place aka the written word not what parts ratio it has.
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And by this logic the most “canon friendly” entry would win if that’s what voters want.
Unless you think the voters choose “wrong” when presented with options
Yes.
I won’t lie, if there was an option to have Greg just whip up an appearance on his own and say “this is canon now”, I would take that option. But as long as these contests continue to fulfill their stated goal of giving appearances to unseen characters, I will continue to support them and do what I can to keep them going.
I don’t really know what point you’re trying to make here. Why is “participating in the contests in any way” included in “things that you only like if you like getting in internet fights”?
Every single point you addressed could just as well fit under “things you do if you enjoy/care about the Bionicle canon”.
… if they choose to.
It has been well-established that the people contributing to the discussion on these boards, on both sides of any disagreement, are a small portion of the people participating in the contests.
Equating the techniques used in the build with objective descriptions of character’s appearance isn’t really a fair comparison. No one is suggesting that any kind of System ratio should be enforced. Greg has occasionally given descriptions that should be merely taken as inspiration (“Helryx is frail”), but there are others that are far more objective (“Tuyet is blue”).
I absolutely believe that it is a possibility.
I don’t think it is realistic to expect voters to know every single aspect of a character’s given description, nor is it realistic to expect the average person on the internet to care. As such, that type of stuff should be enforced early on.
There’s also this:
If there were to ever be something that would destroy the legitimacy of the contests, it would be to give the anti-contest/anti-TTV/“toxic” group an entry to vote for that says “this entry is the exact opposite of what these contests stand for”.
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Your implying that everyone who voted for Hoseryx, vote on it because it was the most canon compliant helryx?
What the voters determine to be an accurate representation of Lariska doesn’t matter if that representation excludes her prostetic arm or make her a centaur. Because it directly contradicts canon and some of her most defining features on her apperance that we are aware of in canon is that she is bipedal and has a prostetic arm.
Having every piece of information about a character in the rules will also help people not to exclude any important canonical details about said characters apperance when building their entry. How you achieve those features are another story but excluding them or actively pretending that no restrictions should be in place and that you can pick and choose what canon elements to keep in a contest that will directly influence canon is rather ignorant and counterproductive.
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I third this
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