This reminds me of some really old topic about Solek from back when the boards were new:
Let’s rephrase his statement, then: objectively, most parents buy the sets for their kids, and many kids buy them, simply because, to these people, they’re subjectively cool-looking robots. This is an objective fact.
Whether it’s true or not, I leave to you all to say.
~W12~
My apologies if this is a little unfocused.
My only question is why would a child complain, or even contemplate things like:
Now I interpret the first half of your argument as being your reasoning on why you see some aspects of Bionicle as flawed, but it contradicts your statement that Bionicle is meant for children.
As @Ekorak said, there’s very little room for objectivity that stems from a viewpoint of Bionicle born of being older and able to appreciate for being more than a toy. [quote=“Chilly, post:1, topic:32276”]
I ask you to explain why Bionicle is so great
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Kids would find it great because frankly it’s a toy. For a lot of people, a toy they grew up with. There may be objective flaws in Bionicle, and believe me there are a lot, but it’s not realistic to ask a community of primarily Bionicle fans to say why they think it’s great without nostalgia being a factor.
Now for this statement:
This is a subjective statement, things that also have fans that give blind praise.
Blind praise exists, for sure. But I don’t really see a need to attempt to change people’s mind about it. People will like Bionicle despite its flaws if they want to, for any reason they want to.
####I feel this is basically a complaint about nostalgia, and frankly I see a rejection of nostalgia as a rather dull viewpoint on life. Of course we blindly praise the things we grew up with because it reminds us of simpler times where everything doesn’t have to be critical. If you go through life re-examining every aspect of something from your childhood, you’re going to see flaws. But that doesn’t mean we should do that, because then what’s the use of remembering anything you’ve enjoyed.
That was under a month ago…
I feel like Eljay is sitting back on this debate with a bucket of popcorn.
Scratch that, all of TTV is sitting back with a bucket of popcorn. 
We fight for their amusement… 
Well, right now this seems like a bickering match between you and Chilly, and I want to actually get those accusations addressed, so… yeah. =P
Well, it kinda is. Which I suppose is my fault, but if it leads to amusement and some good conversation, I’m all for it
I’m not interested in a topic made to start an argument between two people that is getting heated and could very easily be held in private. Got a beef? Take it to PC. But I like the concept. I do not, however, like being ignored.
I wouldn’t say blind praise, at least for me personally. I enjoyed both generations of Bionicle knowing that they had their flaws. These flaws never really ruined my enjoyment, not when I was younger and not even now. I understand that nostalgia can cloud one’s judgement and can be bad if someone calls other people out for having their own opinions and even simply pointing out undeniable weaknesses in the toyline, but to me, I enjoy the nostalgic feeling from Bionicle and made sure I was respectful to others who aren’t as “blind” as I am. I do my best to remind myself that Bionicle isn’t perfect, but I still enjoy it. There hasn’t been much in Bionicle that ruined anything for me.
oi!
that’s subjective, not objective.
what one finds to be a “cool” mech design isn’t something that everyone else finds to be cool.
'specially since we were explicitly called out in the intro post. I want to start a dialogue about that.
-Mesonak
Sorry about that
I wasn’t really sure what exactly to say in response to the TTV comment. In retrospect, it was incorrect, and I do apologize for that.
My lack of response wasn’t intended as a display of ignoring anyone, I just couldn’t really think of anything to reply with.
I apologize deeply to the members of TTV regarding this:
In retrospect, I probably should have removed that comment while editing the original post.
No need to apologize. It’s an interesting conversation to have, just not all that factually sound in relation to us.
-Mesonak
I admit that was worded horribly. Joe and I really meant the way Bionicle was talked about as if it’s some sort of brilliant thing. We didn’t mean to say you guys didn’t criticise it. It wasn’t even a good point anyway.
I did when I was younger.
Teens and adults can like it, but it is made for kids, you can’t deny that. My argument is that Bionicle is just alright for teens and adults.
Obviously.
This community is screwed if someone can’t even do something as simple as that
People actually have sound reasons for liking those.
It’s a complaint about people being blinded by it.
I love nostalgia, just not this type.
Just because it’s obvious doesn’t mean you shouldn’t question it.
I made this topic because people were actually trying to critique it and let nostalgia get in their way. Am I supposed to just shut up and let them gush over it and not give my opinion at all?
If I may, I’m going to regret this, most people don’t say “Bionicle is the best story ever told” they say “G1 was better than G2.” On this point alone all other ‘better stories’ geared for teenagers and adults are irrelevant, this is a comparison of G1 and G2, not G1 and every other story ever told.
And if you are wanting to compare G1 to every other story ever told, then you can’t use the sets as a point of argument unless you also want to base how good the transformer movies are on their toy lines.
Now in comparing G1 and G2: I’ve never heard anyone say that G2 had bad sets. G2’s sets are objectively better. However, G2’s story was bland. It lacked any real sense of urgency, and the only real twists were when it contradicted itself. In G1 characters died. They fought for their lives. They had a clear objective, and a clear enemy, all backed up by story and world building to give it purpose. But more important than all of that, is that when plot holes were discovered, Lego didn’t ignore them, they instead wrote sidestories to fill in the gaps with more world building.
The reason G1 was better than G2 was that it had a better story, because while G2’s sets were better, without a good story the sets are meaningless. Just hunks of plastic with no real purpose.
And that was your subjective viewpoint. For others, they might not have.
But why should that stop people from enjoying it more then just “alright?”
It’s not simple. I can guarantee there is very little objective reason to like anything, not just Bionicle. [quote=“Chilly, post:36, topic:32276”]
People actually have sound reasons for liking those.
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And people have sound reasons to like Bionicle, but even the less sound reasons are reasons nonetheless.
If that’s what it is, then maybe broaden your arguments beyond Bionicle, because it’s not just a Bionicle community issue, it’s a human issue.
Of course not, but I feel your attempt here is to make people change their opinions. If that’s not the intent, then by all means please correct me so I may have that knowledge.
It’s okay to want people to see flaws in things. We should learn to see flaws in things that even we think are perfect. But if you’re trying to get the really hardcore blind praisers to see flaws, they won’t. And you may just have to let them.
For what it is worth, this is very true. The Transformers community suffers from this. Bionicle is included, not exclusive to this.
Same to you.
I’m not trying to stop people from enjoying it. I’m just trying to see where they’re coming from.
I don’t understand how some objectivity is hard.
I haven’t heard any from this topic so far.
I know it is, but doing this gives me an example, and it’s very common in this community.
Not really. I just want to see people’s reasons why they think this way about Bionicle, and I haven’t heard many at all.