This is an excellent point. However, I think there is enough to doubt that Krakua never met a Toa (or Nidhiki specifically). First, if we do assume Krakua never met a Toa, then his appearance would be the “factory setting” of sorts for how Toa look, but his build is neither Mata, Metru, or Inika, so it’s highly unlikely that is the case. While it’s possible Krakua could have seen images of Toa, like the carvings you mentioned, keep in mind the carvings are only in reference to the ones in the Archives Vakama mentions. To say Krakua was influenced by similar carvings that may or may not be in the OoMN fortress is a bit of a stretch.
Here’s what I think more likely happened:
The earliest canon appearance of De-Koro was in Brothers in Arms in a flashback from 5 years ago, where Nidhiki was an active Toa 4,000 years ago. We don’t know how long the village has been around, or more importantly, how long they had the “No Toa Allowed” rule. Despite being sensitive to sound, surely they needed protection from Rahi and such just as much as any other Matoran. Even assuming they had the rule from the very beginning, it’s possible they could’ve had exceptions for emergencies and such. A Toa who wore, say, the Mask of Stealth, which turns the user partially invisible and deadens their sound, would be a perfect match for De-Koro.
The only objection to this that comes to mind is that since the Volitak also turns the user partially invisible, how could Krakua see Nidhiki in order to be influenced by him? Remember the rule of no Toa was for De-Koro in general. Also remember that Krakua was seen as an outcast because sound apparently didn’t affect him as much (he would hum to himself). While De-Koro largely did not welcome Toa, Krakua specifically was probably a different case. He may have seen (or even spoken with, who knows) Nidhiki while he wasn’t using his mask power.
It’s a logical assumption. A Matoran destined to transform who has never seen or heard of what a Toa looked like would still have to transform into something. I would guess their AI has the subconscious idea of the default build, but is overwritten if/when that Matoran encounters a Toa that influences them.
Possible, sure, but unlikely imo. Getting a detailed mental image of someone simply by hearing a description of them is incredibly difficult.
Counterpoint: everyone, on some level, will have an image of what something should look like unless they’re literally blind. For example, have you ever heard of a flargnark? Well, they’re these really big people with magical powers. Oh, and you could become one someday!
The only way you wouldn’t have any sort of mental image when I give even the vaguest description is if you have aphantasia. In that case, and only that case, would “factory settings” even be necessary, and even then, they may not be needed because even aphantasiacs are able to understand the meaning of words, they just can’t form clear mental images.
Counter counterpoint: there’s a difference between a vague mental image and a specific build.
For example, let’s say I tell you about a tall, armoured warrior, clad in red and orange armour, with a flame sword and fire powers. I just described Tahu – and Ackar. Two very different builds. I think a Matoran who has never seen a Toa will have something similar – an image of being taller, more armoured, but not necessarily a specific build.
Also I’m picturing a Flagnark as having American flag colours and for some reason a really long tongue. Just wanted to mention that.
There’s a difference between describing the general look of something and describing the detailed appearance of a single individual. Let me use an example:
“A Toa is basically a tall Matoran.”
“Jaller was a Toa of Fire. He wore a dark red Kanohi Calix. He had gold armor, mainly along his torso, as well as a fire sword and a Zamor launcher.”
Unless Krakua had details like the second, I doubt it would be enough to influence his build.
Tis an interesting tangent. I guess I’ll throw in my two cents, as it’s something I’ve thought about before as well.
I’d say a Matoran with no prior knowledge of a Toa would transform into their idealized form of a “hero”.
As far as builds are concerned … idk, I feel that the difference between Metru and Inika is a bit meta. I find it difficult to justify that any one build is the “baseline build”. Like if it was, why didn’t the Toa Inika look like the Toa Mata/Nuva?
As @Gilahu and @SirKeksalot pointed out, any Matoran would have some sort of personal beliefs/mental representation about how a Toa should look like, even if they didn’t see one in their entire life. I think the “factory setting” thingy doesn’t hold up for biomechanical cyborgs who became sapient, developed regional cultures & preferences, ect.
I mean, who knows, right? But I think it’s less of a stretch to assume the oldest benevolent/“CIA” MUian organization in existence would have some sort of artistic depictions in their headquarters for the chosen public heroes of the Great Spirit, than to assume one named character met another named character based on a mask power or the fact their place of origin is the same.
The Matoran Universe is huge, and stories go on and on for thousands of years. Even if it’s satisfying in a sense, I find this too convenient/easy to tie up loose ends by making known characters met eachother like it’s normal. For all we know, Krakua may be a very “young” Matoran that came into being at the TK Peninsula when Nidhiki was already gone from there.
That’s not what they were saying. They were postulating the idea that a Matoran could be influenced by a Toa they only heard about, not seen, but would still have been influenced by a Toa rather than a preconceived notion. And again, while that could be possible, I just think that it’s unlikely. And even then, it doesn’t exclude Krakua being influenced by Nidhiki, it just means he only would’ve had to hear about him.
Which wasn’t supposed to happen. The Awakening caused by Velika wasn’t part of the GBs’ plan. If the GBs did program a default Toa shape in case Matoran had no prior Toa influence, the fact Matoran became sapient isn’t evidence against that.
Why do you think it’s less of a stretch? Just because it’s possible? Sure, anything’s possible. Just as possible that Krakua is one of the oldest Matoran, met the Toa Cordak before their death and was influenced by Nikila herself. It’s possible, but not probable because I have no reason to think that’s the case. Just like you have no reason to think the OoMN fortress has carvings of Toa (while they are the universe’s public heroes, one could argue it’s just as unlikely since Toa aren’t allowed in the Order).
It is huge, yes, but when we’re talking about two characters who are from not just the same island, but the same peninsula, possibly having met before, that narrows it down quite a lot. I don’t think that would be overly convenient.
Metru Nui is about 40 miles long. That’s the size of Rhode Island. The TKP is about half as long as Metru Nui.
So I guess the question to ask, to any Board users in Rhode Island, is: do you know every Toa that lives in your state?
Wait.
But he wouldn’t have been influenced by Nidhiki’s build, unless someone gave him a detailed description/carving of the Air Toa. He’d at best be influenced by what he thought Nidhiki looked like.
Don’t see how what I wrote contradicts any of that, but okay. Personal beliefs/mental representations are indeed constructed and influenced by what you can hear of.
Never said it was. What I meant was that any “factory settings” are mostly irrelevant now, since sapience allows cultural evolution and transmission.
I think it easily makes sense from an in-lore standpoint, that’s all. Most OoMN members are Mata Nui fanatics; they hold the Toa and the role they play for the universe’s balance in high esteem. I don’t see why the No-Toa policy would prevent the OoMN to pay them tribute. After all, the Toa are what the OoMN members could never pretend to be, out of necesity.
We’re talking about two characters with elusive backstories on a peninsula as long as a third of its continent’s width, a place so treachous Toa had to keep a low profile in order to survive. I really don’t feel it narrows anything down tbh.
The Matoran would end up being a Toa with no hands/a Mask of Meme Making???
Don’t forget the Makuta’s Guide to the Universe’s map emphazise relative locations, but GregF specified the relative sizes between the landmasses weren’t accurate
I agree with this sentiment. Greg even say’s that even when Nidhiki lived there Matoran weren’t open to Toa’s help:
“11) Why does Nidhiki say that on his home, " Toa struck from the shadows or they didn’t live very long”?
11) Because it was a dangerous place for Toa to be. Not every land is welcoming to heroes, the same way not every place in our world is happy to see police."
Also Matoran could go their entire lives without seeing a Toa, even on Metru Nui: “Some Matoran, even on Metru Nui, had never met a Toa before. For example, the transport manager that Matau once met in Le-Metru had seen Toa a long time before but had never met one in person. Still, he had heard legends that Toa were meant to protect the Matoran and keep them safe, which encouraged him to trust Matau.”
I believe Nidhiki would share similar armour to Krakua, but mostly Metru styled. This is because Lariska mistakens Nidhiki for a Metru Toa:
“I guess they don’t teach dodging in Toa training,” the female Dark Hunter said. “No wonder your city is falling.”
We also know that Nidhiki’s chest didn’t mutate as the Shadowed One explicitly didn’t mention it: “Nidhiki’s head and arms had changed their shape. Most grotesque of all, his lower body now resembled that of a huge, four-legged insect.”
As for Krakua, if a Matoran could transform into a psudo-Skadi from thinking they were a Toa, I would be surprised if a drawing of a Toa couldn’t be used as a basis.
I’m not sure if this is relevant to the topic, but I noticed that these three bionicle pieces are from the same family because of the repeating structure I circled.
As a result, all matoran who will become Toa, are destined to be.
the design for the Ussanui was “locked away” in Takua’s mind, and became unlocked when he transformed into a Toa
like this, No matter how much matorans haven’t seen Toa, I think the design of they ideal hero will be unlocked when they become toa.
Ok so I found a lost Greg quote that most people seem to not know:
*"1) If Krakua was a matoran, what did he believe Toa to look like when he transformed? Helryx? (From a storyline perspective)
