Toa Hagah Canon Contest Format Feedback

Personally, I gave all my Hagah mocs custom shields because I wanted to have a full team of mocs with full armaments (hat being spears and Rhtouka shields). Of course, I expect the shields would be redrawn if the moc won, I just want my moc to have a shield.

I should have clarified, people typically dont want to paint the Hagah shield due to its rarity, but Nuparu’s shield parts arent as rare so it perhaps wouldn’t have been as daunting.

I’m starting to come around to this idea.

IF it were to be done this way, I’d imagine the group shot art would keep the first-round winners as-is, right? No changing of masks (or colours, as some have mentioned)?

Although:

I think it should include all six. Just having these four isn’t really a group shot; it’s more of a the-four-winners-in-one-picture shot.


Maybe I could have this much faith.

Not this much though.


Because there is nothing canonically restricting the Hagah from having masks that we have never seen before, or even just custom variants of ones we have. Also, 3d-printed spear tips, maybe.

Removing 3d-printed parts puts non-canon restrictions on the entrants.


True, but it also ensures that we get the best version of every individual Toa.

Doing everything as a group mean that voters will inevitably be forced to compromise between one entry with a good Bomonga but bad Pouks, and an entry with a good Pouks but bad Bomonga.

As long as it ends with a group Art Contest, that Contest can smooth out some of the potential aesthetic inconsistencies between the individual winners.


But colours and piece shape aren’t defined by canon. This is one area of this contest where we should absolutely be encouraging creativity.


There could be, but I don’t think there should be. (#pinkpouks2021)


As for my new thoughts on how these should be run:

I’m coming around to the idea that the MOC portion isn’t as necessary as in other contests. However, I don’t think the answer is pure Art either.

These are all very good points, but they would be just as valid in a MOC/Art combo contest.

By doing a mixed-type contest, you get all of the above benefits of the pure Art contest, but still include MOCists.

Whether or not this is MOC-only, Art-only, or a combo, the most important thing is that each Hagah gets their own contest, followed by a group shot contest to tie the winners together.

(If it were Art-only, could someone submit a MOC as sculpture art?)

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oh my gosh

So before this um, gets locked and sent to the crypt of dead topics I wanted to bring up a point which… Uh oh.

Which relates to the Hagah build.

IF the decision is reached to have the contests follow the format of free-for-all, with both MOCs and artwork competing side-by-side, and the contest limited to a strict view of the Hagah confined to the simple style and torso pieces of the '04 Toa, you will not have any MOCs win.

Why would anyone vote for one of a slew of identical clone mocs with different masks when you can vote for a stunning art piece like what we saw in the Artakha contest? Especially when MOCs are limited to physical/3d masks, which have to be designed and/or printed, when artwork is so much easier to convey your concept?

I apologize for bringing the particular topic up after capital punishment has been promised for perpetuation of it, but imo this is a big issue in terms of how you run it. At that point I would prefer solely an art contest to avoid MOCists working their tails off only to get trampled.

also I want thunderthighs Pouks now

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This post is a verbose explanation of precisely why I voted for the art only option.

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actualllly greg did say that the hagah’s main colors would be the same as their rahaga forms. Which means metru blue for Gaaki, black for Bomonga, metru brown for Pouks, & white for Kualus. Armor color is still pretty open though, so long as it’s metallic, and they could reasonably have secondary colors like how Norik’s got a fair bit of black.

The point wouldn’t be to comply with canon, it would be to comply with the grey issue of making mocs with 3D parts canon.
This is only if the mocs would be the canon depiction, mind you. If it’s moc then art and the art is what’s canon, then by all means, allow 3d masks and spear tips.

“include” moccists.
As Ghid points out, chances are slime that any mocs would beat out art. It would include mocs, yes… but in name only, as the final 6 or whatever will without a doubt be art.

coughcoughhesaidtheyMIGHTbecough

Edit:

Get out of my posts Political_Slime

this was a typo but I’m leaving it because it’s funny

he said “Wouldn’t it have matched their Rahaga colors?” which while not 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt confirmation, is still a pretty clear answer to anyone not looking to betray the spirit of the answer by taking a microscope to it in search of loopholes.

Because the MOC has something unique.

Personally, I’d vote for a standard Metru-build orange Gaaki MOC over a high-quality artwork of silver Gaaki.

Especially since the MOC is (hopefully) going to get the artwork treatment in the group shot.

These are canon contests, not “make it easy with BS01” contests.

But I would want that chance.

“We were worried that no MOCists were going to win over the artists, so we just stopped them from entering in the first place”.

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I hear this argument a lot, but I’m curious if there’s a significant amount of people with strong feelings about any of these characters in particular as opposed to feelings about the team as a whole. To me, it’s far more important that the Toa look like a cohesive team than it is to ensure we get the very best Kualus the contest has to offer, for example.

I understand it’s more work for artists and it’s potentially more expensive for MOCists. That’s definitely a drawback and I don’t want to dismiss it. Speaking selfishly as a voter though, it’s my preference by far.

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That’s… actually a good point. To say you likely won’t win is a very different thing from saying “no, you can’t enter.” Heck, I entered the Art portion of the Artakha contest knowing full well I had no chance of winning, I just wanted to have fun drawing an entry.

Okay, you’ve convinced me to change my vote from “art only” to “free for all”.
thanks, now I have to engage in the Mettur build debate again, I can’t just avoid it because there’s no mocs
this is just a joke please don’t hurt me.

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They’re not MOCs, they’re “sculptures”.

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Not gonna lie this was basically my first thought when the concept of a free-for-all was initially proposed.

You are pardoned…

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I wouldn’t be worried about their colors since a yellow or pink Pouks winning is as much of a pipe dream as a red and blue Artakha. If someone shoots themselves in the foot because they want to go with a color different than 99% of Hagah mocs, more power to them I guess. Same applies to the build discourse in general


Tangent, TTV already established how the Hagah will be divided so there’s no need to discuss this part. Given where the wind is blowing, I’m pretty sure TTV will stick with the original plan. Mocs first, art second.

Another set in stone rule is that the polls will be divided up by character. In other words, you’re free to enter all four Hagah or just a singular one, but there must be separate entry pictures for each one because the polls will be broken up specifically by each Hagah, i.e. “Bomonga preliminaries, Kualus semifinals, etc.”

Pretty sure the “pink Pouks” campaign means metallic pink armor.
Not a pink build.

But that said: well, what if someone made, sor example, a Mata Blue and silver Gaaki? Canon compliant, still looks like a Toa Hagah of Water. I think it would stand a decent shot.

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Im personally much more open to the secondary colors of the Hagah having some creative color differences. I know that Norik and Iruini have their thighs and upper arms as their primary color and black for their hands, but I wouldnt mind seeing those colors changed some if it looked decent. A small way to stylize and show that they are all still similar build metrus, but from different regions

I’ve been seeing quite a few builds utilizing the Knight’s Kingdom shin guards. I think that’s a really good way to make them similar to the existing sets, yet distinct.

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Something to keep in mind – that’s not necessarily canon, but serves as an example that all variations are equally “canon” for the time being – is that the Brotherhood of Makuta may have altered the Hagah to make them more uniform in appearance: that is, while the Hagah may not have looked identical at the outset, as members of the Makuta’s guard detail they may have been outfitted with identical armor and exoskeletons to distinguish them as members of the same elite cadre.

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Yes I like that perspective, but we see some distinction between Iruini and Norik already with Norik’s black torso… darn you Norik. Unless we take that as silver cladded Hagah have the black torso by default, that could bring uniformity.

Inversely, you could use that as an excuse to diversify the color sets as the moccist sees fit. I would not have an issue with this at all.

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