Neither change was as substantial as completely changing the actual colour of the Hagah’s metallic armour. If an artist wants to change the exact shade or shininess of the armour, that’s fine. But not the actual colour itself.
Stylization is fine, but it’s worth considering that weapon shapes are oftentimes (not always) more unique and noticeable than the exact blending of different armour pieces. Changing a Guurahk staff to a Vorahk staff is a lot more noticeable than changing the shape of the Bitil wing on Artakha’s chest.
Those were both out of necessity. Having a completely canon-compliant MOC meant custom parts, which TTV will not mandate. As such, non-canon placeholder masks were allowed.
For the Hagah contests, though, custom parts are not necessary to have a canon-compliant build, so placeholder masks are not necessary.
And none of those changes are as substantial as changing the entire colour of the Hagah’s armour. I could maybe see an argument for changing the masks, but I still think mask choice is a lot more deliberate here than in the past contests.
(Also, didn’t the original Artakha entry also have a cape?)
I’ll give you an example. Say we got the following:
Gaaki is silver, has spear piece A, chest armour A and mask A
Bomonga is gold, has spear B, chest B and mask B
Pouks is gold, has spear C, chest C and mask C
Kualus is metallic blue, has spear A, chest B and mask C
Kualus is clearly the inconsistent one here. So some artists change him to silver, and give him spear D, chest D and mask D. Basically the only things left of the MOC that the designer chose are basic things like leg type and thigh armour. If such an artist wins, the designer has every right to be frustrated.
Statistically the above is quite unlikely, but some less extreme version of it isn’t. Even if it doesn’t happen, people will see the loopholes and be rightfully concerned.
That might be the case, but I don’t think that much change would even be necessary. What’s to say the Hagah don’t end up repeating chest pieces? If chest A is Iruini’s, then chest B repeating among the entries wouldn’t matter so much. I think if any entries end up wearing duplicate masks, then the choice is up to the artist which to change – if any.
In the end, I understand what you’re saying and where you’re coming from; you make a good case. I don’t entirely believe that eventuality will happen, nor do I even believe it’s that big of a problem if it were to happen – nor do I believe, if the artist deemed “correction” necessary, that such extreme changes could be considered unfair to the MOCist. But this all boils down to us having different ideas about acceptable aesthetic and what changes are fair to the creators in the face of that aesthetic.
Maybe so, but I don’t quite agree that it’s less substantial.
Similar, but different nonetheless. Tuyet’s mace was very set-accurate.
EDIT: Oh, the edits never stop
I don’t believe that changing the Kanohi was a mandate in either contest. There were some who advocated for the notion that Helryx’s mask resembled a canon mask, and there were plenty of art entries in the Artakha contest using KhingK’s mask.
I’ll try to make this short and objective. Also, if anything I say was already said - I am greatly sorry, I really couldn’t read all 450+ posts.
I vote for standart contest procedure and not for free-for-all or art-only because
It is already tested, not a lot of problems will arise with it (I hope).
It is 100% fair:
a) it is MOC vs MOC and Art vs Art, so it is a purely fair competition
b) MOCists can enter. I think many (if not all) MOCists will be disappointed if they couldn’t enter, and I think many people (such as myself) already have ready Hagah MOCs for the contest, and would be very disappointed if there is no MOC part
There is no much difference from other contest (to me at least). Any Metru build restictions that could be made are just regular restrictions, and thus should not change the whole contest, I honestly don’t see reasons for forbidding MOCs, or making it free-for-all.
It is complete. It gives us both MOC and Art, not Art only (as it can happen with free-for -all and Art-only variants)
Also, I find idea of group shot of all six Toa Hagah a great one. I also see two ways of implementing it:
As and additional stage, after the Art portion. Just because it is very cool to have.
As a replacement for Art contest. Since MOCs will be already chosen individually, in most cases there won’t be “I like his/her Kualus, but I don’t like his/her Pouks” thing. It will be somewhat voting for different styles only. Additionally it will make Hagah coheisive. Artists should be allowed to chage armor colors (so it is 3/3, 2/2/2 or 1/1/1/1/1/1), as well as replace Masks or identical armors, if neccesary, for consistency. That will give us fitting canon representations, and since the MOCs are to be in Trivia section only, it wouldn’t be too big issue if their armor color or some of armor shaping is not matching. People that will want to replicate them can paint it (it would be same thing as with Artakha’s Sand Green). It is a good solution for armor colors problem (which is likely to arise), though not such a good solution for identical armor shaping (which is much less likely to arise).
Hope that was of any help.
I am really happy that Contests will finally coninue!
They’re deciding everything – but in the event of a discrepancy the artist’s job will be to resolve it by either making all armor unique, half and half, or by thirds.
There seems to be this quasi-fearmongering that if the artist has the authority to alter the armor or color of the MOC because of duplicate pieces between the MOCs, the MOCists will have their work unequivocally and unilaterally thrown aside. That’s just not the case. It’s a matter of sacrificing, I predict, at most one or two parts of one MOC out of four.
Probably quite likely with the armour shaping, actually, as there are very few flat gold pieces that work as chest armour. People will probably just use Iruini’s chest armour.
Just because something is unlikely doesn’t mean people won’t (rightfully) be afraid of it happening. We can’t assume it won’t happen and then build the rules around it not happening. Hoseryx is a lesson to us all that we need to be rigorous when it comes to preparing for the unlikely.
Anyway, I brought the concern up because I know others will inevitably be concerned about it. If it’s prefaced in the rules that your MOC may be extensively changed, perhaps people will be ok with it. But there’s a fine line between ‘justifiable modifications’ and ‘total redesign’.
I am just here to remind everyone that the “differently shaped masks” do not exclude brand new 3d-printed designs. They could be shaped like masks we haven’t seen before. This may or may not include the actual designs of the Hagah masks.
Hoseryx is a lesson for the unwary who have yet to learn that people exist who solely want to throw a contest by voting for the worst possible option. Toa Hagah in duplicate colors or armor pieces would happen as a result of random chance, and it would take unrealistic efforts to coordinate a brigaded vote that would sway 2/4 entries to hold the same colors/armor/spearheads.
The concern is a fair one, but I don’t think that we’d be seeing a total redesign anyway. I get that you’re planning for the “one in a million” chance, and I respect that; my line of work IRL is entirely about one in a million chances that people don’t usually take seriously. I don’t think we’d realistically ever see a total redesign, though. Altered colors or altered chest armor at best, but not both or even a radical redesign.
I can’t agree with this more. I dislike the canon contests nigh wholeheartedly and would prefer that the BIONICLE community (not that TTV represents the whole community, not by a long shot, which is part of my problem) just dumped the whole idea.
If there is to be a Hagah canon contest, I think I’d prefer an art-only contest or an art-and-MOC-free-for-all, because the “standard” format for the past two has been a pain. Otherwise I have essentially no views on its terms. Apart from actual descriptions in canon texts, I think restrictions on build, form, colors, masks, etc. would squelch creativity and diffuse any fun there might have been. But, again, I’m putting no investment in these contests as a concept, so take my thoughts with plenty of salt.
I support that guy who suggested having character contests that aren’t to define canon. (Sorry, guy, I forgot where your post was and didn’t quote it beforehand. ) That would be way more fun and still leave interpretations of characters open to everyone. What I regret most about these contests is that, if I want to build a Lariska or whoever else MOC after their particular contest, it won’t have the same impact or excitement because it’ll be “non-canon.” Some things, in my opinion, are far better left undetermined for the sake of mystery, implied storyworld depth, and open interpretation.
Sorry, I’m an author and I think like one. Can’t help it.
See, I have exactly zero problems with those. Except that two of 'em use masks from Hero Factory, but that’s more an ethical problem for me than canonical.
I’m the kind of person that will try to do the maths on this, but I’d guess it’s more like one in a hundred. Still pretty significant.
I think the rule should be you can alter up to two parts of each winning Hagah MOC, and they can only be changed in the interest of consistency. You can’t just change something because you don’t like it. The two parts don’t include things like placeholder shields which would be changed anyway. Pieces to modify include:
) That would be way more fun and still leave interpretations of characters open to everyone. What I regret most about these contests is that, if I want to build a Lariska or whoever else MOC after their particular contest, it won’t have the same impact or excitement because it’ll be “non-canon.” Some things, in my opinion, are far better left undetermined for the sake of mystery, implied storyworld depth, and open interpretation.