Toa Hagah Canon Contest Survey and Final Q&A

I’m still advocating for simultaneous voting except for the final round, where they are staggered. Preferably with Kualus and Gaaki first as they have more controversy over their colour-schemes.

None of these options are perfect, but I do think the above option maximises control over how we want the overall team to look, for the least amount of confusion & delay.

or…

If you want them to blend, you must stagger the end!

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The amount of misreading of my comment is impressive.

As I already said, the ratio of metalic colors is already enforced in the current rules because specific body parts with this color are mandated. Even more strict version of what you are hoping for is already at place.

See the answer to above.

Yes, I have been saying the same thing.

Misinterpratation/misreading of my point. I am not saying consistency is unnecessary. Options 2 and 3 are unnecessary, because the same consistency they could hope to achieve is already written into the rules. They would only come with extra restrictions and/or unfairness.

Not entirely true, you can choose individual entries that you consider to fit the best together. You can put together a consistent team. Otherwise yes, this option in itself does not contribute to consistency - it doesn’t need to.

A better chance at somethig, which is already enforced in rules, but this time with added complications.

None of which is something most people consider characteristic of Hagah. Same height is already mandated btw.

You didn’t explain how I am wrong about that?

That is definitely not wrong, if you read trough people’s posts you’ll see. Even Hazash already admitted option 2 is not ideal.

The way staggered voting (option 3) contributes to these problematic results (which you omitted here) is it creates bias for whatever style the first winning Hagah happens to be.

That is not a bias, but a standard for those few points characteristic for Hagah.

it’s a fantasy world. I’m all for weapon lore and definition, but in this instance, I personally think we should be lenient. Bionicle has never exactly fit the definitions of what they call their weapons anyways.

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Sure, this is why I argued about the pointy tip being the important part rather than it being an actual spear. The Hagah have this particular wrist movement that is special to them especially to accomodate their long pointy weapons. I think this is an important part of their character design.

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You claim people misunderstand you, yet it is you who doesn’t understand them.

No one has been talking about that in this topic. The placement of metallic armor is in the rules, everyone knows this. We’re talking about how many Toa Hagah have each color – i.e. three with gold armor, or five with silver.

No. It is not. Again, I think this comes from the fact you think we’re talking about armor placement. We’re not.

It wouldn’t be restrictions, because we’re not trying to mandate consistency. Just to give an option to vote for it.

Everyone’s been over why this doesn’t work, but to put it simply:
Let’s say I vote for a certain silver Pouks, because that works with the other three I voted for. However, a silver Gaaki, Bomonga, and Kualus wind up winning. Had I known that, I wouldn’t have voted for a silver Pouks.

I never said it is characteristic of them. I said:

Quotes my explanation
Says I didn’t explain anything.

Though, yes, I think I didn’t reply what to what you said – because as I realize now, you seem to have been arguing about metallic armor placement, which is already in the rules and isn’t what we’ve been talking about.

Did you read what I wrote below? I said I don’t think a significant portion of potential entrants would be cut out by mandating all four. I never said no one would be, just that I don’t think it will be “significant fractions”.

Ok, I’ll admit I might have misunderstood this. So you’re saying if a moc wins for the first Hagah, it’s more likely for a moc to win for the second, and third, and so fourth, and if an art wins, it’s more likely for art to win the rest. Is that it?

Well, then in that case… I don’t think that would be the case. With how similar the Hagah will be, a good art will fit in with the mocs, and vice versa.

A standard is a bias.
For example, some people will only vote for entries that share the same feet as Norik and Iruini, or that share either Norik or Iruini’s leg type. They want the other Hagah to fit with Norik and Iruini – so shouldn’t they also fit with each other?

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enumerate

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At the risk of steeling my own thunder, I plan on presenting a pink Pouks (not just because of the meme, but because in complements Metru brown well while not being associated with another element already), a green Bomonga (or purple, that might change), a blue Kualus, and a copper Gaaki (though, if I switch Bomonga to purple, she’ll be green instead).

I’ll be doing art entries, so my colors, while not necessarily the exact hex codes Lego uses, will be intended to emulate Lego’s hues.

@Hazash , That’s why I picked a team contest as well.

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I can’t believe this is actually a point of contention. Norik’s “”“spear”“” is a bloody spade. It’s literally one of the worst weapons for thrusting in all of Bionicle, and is more like an axe at best. Iruini might have a hewing spear, but its head makes it far better for cutting than thrusting. And, as TTV has ALREADY SAID WHEN I ASKED ABOUT THIS, the Hagah can have ANY polearm and it doesn’t literally have to be a spear.

This is Bionicle, not a stinkin’ HEMA tournament.

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As brought up when people were discussing Artakha’s hammer, BIONICLE operates under Rule of Cool rather than realism. So as long as the weapon looks vaguely like a polearm, it’s a Hagah spear. I wouldn’t worry too much about someone submitting an entry with a scythe or an oversized warhammer. Give TTV some credit, they surely have at least some common sense.

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That’s partly what gets me about this. It’s the same half-dozen or so people arguing the same thing over and over again, but by the time the contests actually role around, the majority of the 400+ voters (if the last two contests are anything to go by) aren’t going to know most if not all of what’s gone on in these last three topics, only that the Hagah contest will be slightly different in how it’s run compared to the previous two contests, and likewise the majority won’t likely care enough to go through literal thousands of replies to learn why the slightly different ruleset is slightly different.

Yeah yeah yeah, I know that these arguments and discussions need to happen in the first place in order to get to that slightly different ruleset, but my point still stands.

That’ fine. An even color distribution is all I want, whether it’s 3:3, 2:2:2, or 1:1:1:1:1:1.

If an entry has a spear that’s not really a good spear, I imagine a lot of people won’t vote for it.

And if someone submits an entry with something that is just outright not a spear, TTV can DQ it, as that wouldn’t be in the spear-it of the Hagah Contests.

I regret nothing.

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Why, exactly?

Something is very wrong with your moral compass.

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For example, if someone submits an entry with a Mantax claw as a “spear”. Even if it’s allowed, I wouldn’t vote for it, because that doesn’t make a good spear – the pointy end is on the side, not the tip. Or something like Turaga Matau’s staff, which is a saw, or a Piraka weapon, which would be way too big to serve as a ‘spear’.

I wouldn’t vote for any of these, and I imagine many people wouldn’t.

I choose to take this as a compliment.

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Those are extreme examples. You said “isn’t really a spear” … except that neither of the existing Hagah really have spears. One has a shovel and the other has a glorified fork.

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Well, yeah, they’re extreme, because I wanted examples the most people would agree with.

How about I put it this way: people likely won’t vote for entries that push their definition of ‘spear’ too far. I think most people would agree the examples I listed are too far and aren’t spears, and the two Hagah we have can be considered ‘spears’. Where the line is will vary from person to person, of course – for example, one of my entries uses a Crystal Spike, which some people might argue is not a good ‘spear’.

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I imagine that the next contests won’t have that many discussions, and won’t be that fun to read for the TTV staff.

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It’s true that people will prefer other spearsheads than others. My current moc uses a Nuva chest, which is triangular, but also very fat and blunt.

One thing I’ll also note about the terminology of spears: BIONICLE is also a toyline marketed to children. Many weapons could be classified as something else, but lego opts for more widely recognizable names. The average seven year old likely knows what a spear is but not a pole-arm.

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Go to jail

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Aight, I’m using a midak skyblaster as a spear tip confirmed

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I mean you can try