Its just a yes/no to whether you agree to that proposal or not
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that’s the thing
there’s a lot of individual parts to the proposal
it’s essentially a “double barreled question”
I agree with some, but disagree with others, and it’s not really specified which parts are set in stone, and which will change depending on your vote
Then I suggest answering with no, because you don’t agree with the full proposal, and then list your particular grievances here
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This may have been covered in the rules thread, but can are 3D printed rhotuka shields allowed, or is making a Hagah without the actual piece verboten?
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This is a big “NO NO” from me. I voted for the “design the full set of 4” option before having read the details but now that I have, I am 200% sure I made the right choice. I think designing the full set of 4 characters is really important to ensure proper cohesion of all the members of the team. Besides, lightning-round voting is excessive IMO.
Oh, you’re busy on those particular 2 days so you’ll miss the votes ? Oops, sucks to be you ha ha.
Come on, this is not ok. This is canon contests. It should be designed in a way that is inclusive to the most people of the bionicle community, even the ones who don’t live on TTV 24/7.
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Firstly, I don’t like the variant with the “MOC creator decides whether the mask can be changed”. Because the main point of the Art contest with previous characters (And as I undersatnd it, with any characters) was to make the Kanohi - it is the most important thing about it. If MOC creator says no, artists will just have to redraw what already exists. Without designing new stuff, just “making a photo”. There is another major problem which can be simly put in a phrase: “I like this Kualus, but his mask is stupid and won’t be changed in the art contest, I won’t vote for him”. Same actually goes for group art, but group art at least has a lot of pros to it, while I see no pros in the variant of MCD (MOC Creator Decides).
I also don’t like all 3 options in second part of the main post. Brifely about each one:
- all four polls at one time cause inconsistency like Hazash said
- Staggering polls are bad option because of this: the first 2 polls were (for example) Kualus and Pouks. Both winners have gold armor on them. Now, for the consistency’s sake (3/3 colored armor), all gold-armored Bomonga and Gaaki are going to lose (so its not 2/4 or 1/5). And that will be ~1/3 of all entries. I think that is not good for MOCers, at all.
- With all four in an entry there are many problems, main one of which is the phrase: “I like this Pouks, but this entry’s Gaaki is stupid, I won’t vote for it”
So, now I am going to propose a thing:
That is how I see the whole contests: there is a lot of characters and thus contests, they run one after another, they will take 2-3 years, everything’s fine. Among them, there are Toa Hagah. Toa Hagah are the only characters of all that need consistency with each other and with Norik and Iruini. They all will be ran simulatenously.
Hagah are the only contests, that actually need the one-after-another procedure for them, and are going to be the only ones that will be ran simultaneously.
I say:
Make them standard. Just 4 consecutive contests, each with a poll, each with an entry period.
More detailed:
I propose:
- Final official set of rules for the contest appear
- The main “building” period (no entries posted, they are only being prepared) (1-2 weeks)
- Entry period for Toa Hagah 1 (posting of Toa Hagah 1 entries) (5-7 days)
- Voting period for Toa Hagah 1 (5-7 days)
- Vote calculation and Results for Toa Hagah 1 (1-3 days)
- Steps 2, 3, 4 for remaining Toa Hagah (everyone has an additional week to adjust their entries to match the already-known ones in each entry period) (~7 weeks, see below)
- Group Art contest entry period (all masks are being drawn) (2-3 weeks)
- Voting period for Group Art (5-7 days)
- Vote calculation and Results for Group Art (1-3 days)
So, realistically the whole contest can take 2-2.8 months, while, if ran simultaneously, It’ll take sometthing like 1.5 months. 1 more month, and all the problems will be solved.
With Artakha the perfect formula for running a contest was found. I see no reasons changing it.
I also should’ve said all that much earlier, but I really realized how much problems there are with simultaneous contests only now.
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That has been my consistent issue with the contests. So much of it has been “oh, it doesn’t work for you? well, that’s too bad.”
“you asked for them so this is what you get”
I don’t like the whole monkey’s paw attitude with the contests, where you can only get a part of what you want, and everything else will be twisted against you.
I get we can’t have the ideal world, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.
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This would require artists to draw all 4 Hagah anyway, skipping the necessity of the 2nd art portion… thats a win imo.
But what if mocs win?
Are artists then expected to redraw new artwork reflecting their now-canon designs again for the required art portion?
Will they be allowed to enter modified versions of their original entries?
Most artists will just hold off until the winning designs are chosen if this is the case.
Then there are those who’ve already started since the moment we knew they’d be going ahead with the free-for-all…
Also, I’d imagine this would make it difficult to enter Hagah created in different mediums as part of one entry…
And what if you can’t enter all 4 due to part limitations/time constraints or something? You could have 3 finished and well-thought out Hagah designs ready to go, and only be interested in making them, but are forced to slap a pouks or bomonga together anyway otherwise you can’t enter any of them…?
This just complicates the whole process imo and seems like a largely unnecessary restriction to accessibility for the sake of “consistency” with the other Hagah, which (aside from being a pipe dream, let’s be real) is totally subjective anyway -
unlike with the “metru build” description, the Hagah don’t canonically have an even ratio of armour colours or molds shared between them that was ever established prior to these contests taking place, so this contest’s results will be what decides that.
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Oh, you don’t have the four metru torsos in the correct colors? Oops, sucks to be you ha ha
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That’s the thing: if you’re not 100% confident that you won’t be proven wrong, at least staggered voting will better guard against unforeseen situations.
But that’s part of the democratic process. If people want to vote on the basis of consistency, they have the chance to vote one way. If they don’t and they just want a cool design, they have the chance to vote another way. You’re basically saying that by doing simultaneous voting, it’ll stop a portion of voters from making an informed decision based on their own voting criteria.
Also, the worst-case scenario you mentioned really isn’t that bad. I personally think people’s eye for consistency will only take them so far before they won’t vote for something that’s ‘weird but consistent’. Besides, I mostly agree with you that it’s hard to mess up the Metru build. It’s just easy to mess up the Hagah, if you want clear consistency.
Big agree with the idea of requiring all four Toa at once.
As for questions, since artwork is competing against MOCs in the same contest, am I correct to assume custom parts used in Studio don’t necessarily need to be 3d printable? I’m not yet good at making manifold models so some of the custom pieces I’m designing use multiple sections clipped together. I assume it would be fine in this contest as these pieces in a render would be functionally identical to them being depicted in drawn artwork. My parts’ shapes would most likely work fine irl, they’d just need to be tweaked later to make them printable.
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Come on. Missing parts, you can buy. Missing time, you cannot buy.
Besides, parts can be digitally recolored if I recall correctly. You can use the one metru torso you have and recolor it digitally.
You could also use Studio if you want. There are plenty of ways around it. Canon shouldn’t be bent around someone not owning certain parts in their collection. These are official Bionicle character designs, so quality and cohesion come first.
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I’d rather get them over with asap while maintaining a balance between creative freedom and cohesion in a niche contest, so option 1. I’m happy that entrants will be allowed to determine whether their masks are changed.
It’s self-serving, but I wouldn’t want all entries made by one person to be weighed down because one or two of them were off.
Requiring people to submit all four will almost certainly result in Norik and Iruini recolors with 3:3 metallic color distribution.
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Unpopular opinion: if the Hagah designs were restricted to what I’d consider canonically-accurate builds, we wouldn’t need to worry about them having an incoherent lineup even if different builders made them.
Yes.
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Come on man, you’re saying those are the only things they have in common? There’s more similarities than differences between them, they are pretty much clones with a few changes here and there.
No, because they were given new armor after becoming Toa Hagah.
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Except that Iruini and Norik clearly wear different armor.
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Yeah but it’s still pretty much the same “style”. Metallic chestplace, metallic shoulderpads, metallic upper leg armor, metallic feet (the latter two being identical between the two of them).
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Ah yes, such different armor when literally 5 pieces are different between them (not counting each pauldron/shin individually).
They’re virtually identical. They have almost the exact same color blocking, the exact same build aside from how the breastplate goes on, and only differ in specific accessories.
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Yes, same style, but not the same armor.
The style will from what it looked like be mandated by the rules for the contest. But that still allows for variance.
Though what I’m ultimately getting at is this:
There is no evidnece of identical armor in canon. There is also no evidence of non-identical armor between Hagah in canon, except for between Norik and Iruini. Hence you can only really argue for armor uniformity with personal preference. That’s fine and absolutely within your right. BUT it is not a rule, and that needs to be kept in mind.
My personal preference is to have at least a certain variety between the Hagah.
Yes. That’s what being a Metru-build basically boils down to.
Ceterum censeo agonem esse terminandum.
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