Hard disagree on this. There were several people concerned about colour distribution if nothing else. As Willess said:
Will there be a top 6 poll before the top 3, or are you saying that it’s 6 instead of 3 with no extra polling stage? As I said, if you want to proceed carefully and get the full benefit of this suggestion, you should do the former.
I’m on board with this, so long as it’s stipulated that the artists can only change these things in the interest of consistency (which is kinda what you’re saying). In any case, however, I think it’s so likely that at least one of the Hagah will have a strange or inconsistent colour that I would suggest having the ‘freedom to recolour’ rule in regardless (though people would still need to give consent for the colour to be changed).
By the same token, I would also personally suggest allowing basically anything to be potentially changed, so long as the entrant gives consent - with the rule that artists can’t change more than one or two things about the design. The full list of changeable elements would be:
Mask
Colour
Spear tip
Chest armour
Eye colour
Other armour (shoulders, thigh armour, etc.)
Other elements (e.g. feet)
Entrants would need to fill out a tick box on their post saying which of these categories they’re ok with being changed. If they don’t fill one out, assume they don’t want anything changed, but remind them in case they’ve forgotten.
This is what I want personally, to reach a good compromise, and to give everyone who feels similarly to me some modicum of power to resolve things that don’t align with their criteria for consistency. I’d rather be cautious than conservative.
I noticed you didn’t mention my second suggestion, namely people voting for their favourite team in the finals, instead of their favourite individuals. If I came to you with a way to implement this system over the weekend (which I’ve already made progress towards), is it something you’d consider?
If you ticked all the boxes yes; no one’s saying you have to.
That said…
I think this might be a bit much. I think far frewer people care/care as much about these little details. Two Hagah having the same mask? Will bug me to the end of days. Two hagah having the same chest plate? I could care less. Or even the reverse – if all of them have silver except Iruini, that’s a problem. If all of them have Mettur feet except Bomonga… eh, I don’t really care.
I was gonna ask the same question when I read that quote! It suggests that visors are not restricted to Mahri Kanohi (which makes sense when you look at the Phantoka Toa from the year after that)
EDIT: I think the rules make a lot of sense and manage to respect everyone participating in these contests, which is something of an achievement!
The idea with letting the moccist decide whether or not things can be changed in case he/she wins is good - however, I have a feeling that a moc that is allowed to be changed would be a much more popular choice in the polls, than a moc that is not, seeing how the group shot artist would have more creative freedom and a bigger influence on the canon design (both of which are obviously attractive prospects). I’m not sure, but based on this, it looks a bit to me like the only way to make sure that an entry stands a fair chance is by allowing all changes. Again, it’s just a thought, so if I missed something in my thinking process, I apologize for that, and I stand to be corrected
I would agree that if somebody says “no mask change, no colour change, and no spear change”, fewer people will vote for it. But for other elements that I suggested, I doubt most people will care. I don’t see voters preferring more lenient designs as a big issue. It just allows people that want consistency to make a more informed vote.
For me personally, it’s highly unlikely that I’ll vote for an entry that doesn’t allow these three key changes, even if it’s individually the best design presented. I’m not willing to risk getting inconsistent duplicates or black sheep and not being able to change them.
He didn’t say there weren’t, he said you were the only one we saw being so vocal about this subject. In addition, “several people” isn’t a hard number we can work with, and hence can’t kowtow to with general disregard.
This basically sums up the issue here.
As it stands, I think Meso has done well to give our final thoughts and feelings on it before things kick off:
As he mentioned, the contest will begin later today.
Thank you to everyone for your feedback. It’s taken far long than expected, but we’re optimistic for this to go well. Please help us keep it fun, civil, and as issue-less as possible.
Give me a reason why that doesn’t alleviate the issue and I’ll probably accept it as valid.
And for my own peace of mind, I will ask again what the issue is with the following, if the technicalities are properly ironed out (which I’m working on now):
The spirit of the staggered voting option was to limit inconsistency. That 25% of us voted for it suggests it’s a popular concern despite not being a majority. That’s a lot of people that could be disappointed by the outcome of the contest - far more, I’d wager, than Artakha. I don’t think it’s possible for this to be more controversial than the Helryx contest, but that’s no consolation.
Maybe some people from my camp think Meso’s suggested additions are sufficient. I don’t. But can we at least be receptive to the idea that people who haven’t seen the latest discussion might flock to complain when the contests start? Or that some unlikely event that has been taken for granted crops up and everybody complains about it?
There needs to be a degree of flexibility with the rules and a prior disclosure that things could change if complaints amass for any reason. Changes to the rules like what was done for the ‘one shade of green’ rule for Artakha must remain on the table at every stage of the contest.
Before this happens (and I apologize if this seems too nitpicky), has any thought been given to changing the “no one taller than Iruini” rule? As I’ve mentioned a few times before, it seems a little arbitrary, without any canon backing.
Might be a bit late in the game to ask, though this can apply to future contests too, but what’s the ruling on side builds? Like, if someone made a little Rahi companion for Kualus, would that be included as part of their moc entry too, or would it be ignored and only the Kualus itself counts? Again, this question goes for future contests too.
Do you guys have any clue on when the rules will be posted, today? Currently working on wraping up my entries. To begin writting toics for each of them but I feel that knowing the exact rules before writting them would be wise. My Hagah are pretty compliant to what rules has been discussed so far but I can very well have missed something.
Also I’ll preemptively ask this question: do we have to make individual topics for each Hagah we enter, or can we post them as a group with individual photos to be used separately? The former is going to be pretty tedious for entrants and mods alike.
Disappointed, but not surprised. While the regional variation argument is true and valid in certain regards, I will say that, while 9 out of 10 times in canon, the non-regional masks are shown and common, I’ll put odds on that 9 out of 10 times the MOCs in these contests will use 3D printed designs, and maybe even win with them repeatedly, defeating the idea of them being “regional” or “uncommon/rare.” Once again, these are canon contests, not creativity contests. If the canon is that the Inika and Mahri masks are their default, standard forms, then that commonness they posses should be reflected in some way with these contests (looking at you, Varian and Yesterday Quest Toa).
Would this be applied to future contests also, or just the Hagah? Because I like the idea of narrowing down choices further as well. Three feels competitive, six feels a little much and not as definitive.
