What would it take to destroy Marendar?

What about non-elemental powers such as acid? Let Toa Krakua awaken a swarm of Lehvak and use them against the thing.

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The Great Beings can deactivate any Bionicle power at will, as did the Cursed GB with Vezon’s Olmak, and probably Velika when he murdered Karzahni and Tren Krom. We also know that Kabrua has a device fabricated by a great being that also deactivates elemental and kanohi powers within a certain range. I’ll bet Marendar has a similar technology, so no powers within the surroundings of it will be of any use, only physical attacks and weaponry could be effective against it.

And most likely it has been made of stuff like protosteel. It is said only nyhran ghosts, Artakha and Great beings could work with that stuff.

Even though protosteel is bionicle universes valyrian steel, it is not indestructible. Powerful enough weapons and other protosteel tools such as Axonns axe should be effective. Especially if they are used against weak areas such as joints.

Makuta miserix can destory protosteel with destruction kraata power. Maybe mere touch of his enough to defeat marendar? He is in no hurry to help toa but it could be his ticket to good graces of everyone.

It could be argued Marendar could have the “software” uppdate since he is meant to be more advanced than a toa. If all toa are (preasumeably) in level 1 intelligence as intented then it would make sense to make Marendar smarter and include some higher functions.

As we have seen with Umbra, Hydraxon and Botar, capability for compassion does not always mean the being has compassion.

Were toa mata only level 1 intelligence to begin with? if so they prove they showed emotions such as guilt and frustration.

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It honestly wouldn’t be that hard. A Kahgarak could send him into the Zone of Darkness and that’s the end of the story. Or someone with an Olmak could do the same thing. Teridax and/or Miserix could also maybe just absorb him. It could probably be lured into Baterra territory, too. I’d like to see how that would play out.

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Three options come to mind.

-Marendar knows about Baterra and how they only attack weapon carrying beings. And can therefore just hide his weapons or lay them down.

-Marendar destroys all the Baterra in an epic one versus a horde battle.

-Marendar does not carry anything that Baterra consider weapons. This is the least likely option since marendar is said to use weapons or is a living weapon. Many marendar mocs have cool claws as weapons which Baterra might not consider aa weapons.

Onuas weapons were claws and baterra weapons are also claws so they most likely consider certain types of claws as weapons.

Not all claws such as rahi or animal since they would Kill all the wildlife.

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As of right now, there aren’t any Olmaks left in the universe. Brutaka’s was shattered, and Vezon absorbed the second one, but the Mad Great Being turned the mask off so Vezon can’t use it right now (good luck convincing Vezon to help defeat Marendar anyways…)

The Kahgarak idea would work though, there should be plenty of those around, assuming Teridax remembered to revive the Kahgarak along with the rest of the Visorak when he was in the GSR. :wink: Of course you’d have to convince a Kahgarak to help, they’re not loyal to the Toa and they totally wouldn’t care if Marendar was killing off all the Toa, they’d probably either help or sit back and watch.

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Both Baterra and Marendar are murder robots made by the Great Beings. I think that the GB knew about it and thus planned for the Baterra to not recognize Marendar, or maybe it could be possible that Marendar was able to manipulate Baterra to have a personal army against Toa or anyone that dares defend them from their termination.

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It is unlikely that GBs programmed Baterra to recognise Marendar since they were created during the core war and Marendar was created years later just before launch of Mata Nui.

If Marendar could control Baterra then Great beings could control Baterra, which they have been unable to do.

It is definitely possible that Marendar knows about Baterra.

It has been stated that the Barerra are fully robots and Marendar is biomechanical like MU inhabitants. If this has any effect story wise we do not know. I would think if there is a differerence then Marendar is able to talk and maybe even have a soul.

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Interesting theory about the Baterra!

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Even if “Souls” do exist in the Bionicle universe, it’s is something that they’d obviously never discuss since it’s too religious. Also, the Baterra are programmed to attack anything with a weapon.

I meant like a heart, a sapience and/or feelings kind of soul, not religious one.

I figured you meant the “higher sapience” (either level 1 or level 2), as souls explicitly do not exist in Bionicle.

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Explicitly don’t exist? I really doubt that was ever confirmed. Greg always said that they never wanted to discuss such things, like the existence of a true afterlife or the creation of the real universe.

Yes, that is the real world reason. In universe solution is they don’t exist.

There is no “in-universe” solution at all. There is no in-universe answer, one way or another, whether or not “souls” exist.

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Of course there is:

Q: It has been proven by the Iden’s powers that MU inhabitants have a soul… so when you say “programming”, does that mean that the Great Beings can create souls?
A: Actually, no, that hasn’t been proven. The Matoran named the Iden the Iden, because they don’t realize their true nature. What to them is a “spirit” to us would simply be their AI.

Q: Do the agori have souls?
A: I am not even sure I want to get into a metaphysical discussion, since it really touches on religion … all I can say is Agori are basically the same as we are.

Q: Do Makuta have souls as opposed to just being nothing more then gas?
A: MU characters have AI. Only a deity can create a living being with a soul. The Great Beings are not gods, just scientists.
It has been proven by the Iden’s powers that MU inhabitants have a soul… so when you say “programming”, does that mean that the Great Beings can create souls?

Q: You said that the MU inhabitants had AI instead of souls. Does that mean that they’re not truly self-aware/alive in the “more than a vegetable” sense?
A: No. There are plenty of sci-fi books with intelligent robots who are self-aware, but they are artificial creations of humans, and humans cannot imbue something with a soul.

Q: Do you think that beings from the Matoran Universe have a soul?
A: Not even going to go there. This sort of thing leads to religious discussions.

Anyway, nobody was talking about souls in the first place, we were talking about Marendar’s sapience and which level it likely had (level 1 or level 2), and if this was going to figure in the story in any significant way.

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All of those quotes support my argument more than yours. He said “Not even going to go there” and “I’m not sure I want to get into a metaphysical discussion.”

That is very far from an confirmation that there’s no souls in Bionicle, especially since he also said “Agori are basically the same as we are.” So it leans towards yes for Agori, directly contradicting “souls explicitly do not exist.”

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I’m not sure what you are referring to as Level 1 or Level 2, but - Afaik, the only ones confirmed to have been “awakened” from the beginning were all Toa and Takua, while the only ones confirmed not have been were Matoran and possibly Kestora. Though, it is pretty reasonably to assume Makuta, Artakha, and Karzahni were.

For any others, it’s up in the air… There most likely were others who were not awakened originally, but there likely were also others who were.

If Marendar was built to hunt down Toa, and Toa had their sapience for the purposes of being able to do their combat-related duties, then it seems reasonable Marendar would need the same.

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This gives more weight to the theory that Marendar would be beaten by having it/him realise the error of his mission. An level 1 intelligence could not do it. Go against orders.

Hopefully Marendar kills tuyet before he realises toa are not evil. She needs to go XD.

Tuyet would show it is still a possibility and Marendar would continue observing the toa. Warning if they step out of the line, they would face him again.

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Personally I feel like she needs to go as well. I could see her serving as a beacon given her increased amount of Toa Power, thus becoming the first target.

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