i think Bionicle is a mix of both.
you can have a villain who is pure evil, but that does not mean that all of his/hers forces should be just as heartless as him/her.
same for the heroes, in G1 there where Toa who broke their code of not killing an opponent and stuff like that.
Rememer that some of the Makuta in the brotherhood where not as evil as Teridax himself.
and then you have characters like Makuta Gorast.
But where there is light, there will be shadow.[quote=“DarkHenrik, post:918, topic:19964”]
, in G1 there where Toa who broke their code of not killing an opponent and stuff like that.
Rememer that some of the Makuta in the brotherhood where not as evil as Teridax himself.
and then you have characters like Makuta Gorast.
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But in G2 the villains seem like they are there just for the sake of causing random troubles. They are not characterized (Except Umarak which is cool), and in fact we barely know something about Makuta’s behaviour. Oh well, we know he’s envious =)[quote=“DarkHenrik, post:920, topic:19964”]
ah yes, because the stupid light from good will in turn casting shadows and thus more darkness.
why do heroes never get that.
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It was just a quote to MoL :c
ah yes, because the stupid light from good will in turn casting shadows and thus more darkness.
why do heroes never get that.
This is really why people are trying so hard to theorize where these characters are going to go, IMO. When you’re faced with a character like G2’s Makuta, who is given little motivation other than the fact that he’s “the bad guy,” people start making up ways in which he could be characterized. If LEGO had focused more on fleshing out the more mysterious characters, like they did with the Toa and Umarak, we wouldn’t have to have debates about whether Ekimu is evil, or what Makuta’s motives were in creating the MoUP, because we would know, and that knowledge could prevent a lot of the pointless back and forths that simply come from a lack of information. As of now, because we know so little, these debates will continue–not that that’s necessarily bad, although it has led to some rather meaningless squabbling.
It’s weird, 'cause in a way, I want LEGO to make things more complex, but I also don’t, because I want to maintain that simplistic quality that G1’s early years had. It’s quite mystifying sometimes, trying to find a balance…
funny thing is, in G1 originaly, Makuta had little to no character other than that he was envious and evil.
but really during that time he was portraied as a dark god of Destruction, with Mata Nui being a god of light and creation.
its interesting really.
Villains don’t need words to be well-characterized. Rahi, Bohrok and Rahkshi felt so unique in my opinion, and I’m not saying this with a nostalgic influence.[quote=“DarkHenrik, post:922, topic:19964”]
Makuta had little to no character other than that he was envious and evil.
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ARE YOU SERIOUS THO? I loved how mysterious his speech was at the end of MNOG, it was a great introduction to his character.
It is, but I think the way they were characterized then was a bit more appropriate, given that they were supposed to be combating, almost supernatural forces. Whereas, in G2, Ekimu and Makuta are beings, physical and tangible people that aren’t very different from villagers or Toa. In that light, they need more characterization, simply because they’re in the action, not just acting by proxy, like MN and G1 Makuta did in the early years (through the Toa and the Rahi/Bohrok/Rahkshi, respectively).
You’re absolutely right, and for the same reason I said above. Those three forces were there, present, in the action, whereas MN and Makuta were like outside observers, influencing things like chess players. Ekimu and G2 Makuta are essentially chess pieces who have been characterized as chess players, which is why there seems to be a lot of confusion about their characters.
Your point about Makuta’s speech is also good, because it highlights something G2 Makuta has thus far lacked as a villain–involvement in the present. MN had an excuse–he was in a coma, but Teridax was involved in his plans, even as an “outsider,” of sorts, an overarching villain who sits back and schemes instead of fighting. We’ve seen G2 Makuta do that, what, three times? He was shown to have influenced Kulta, and he spoke directly with Umarak, but other than that, he hasn’t really been shown scheming, laying future plans and making himself known. This is evidenced by Ekimu and the Toa being unsure of his plans–we, like them, don’t know what Makuta’s up to, and that makes us curious, which leads to debate. If we had some sort of hint–not a full outline of a plan, just an idea–we’d be able to nail down Makuta’s character mote easily, just like we did with Teridax.
I’d with the 2 waves to make it more like 2003. I’d like that though to switch the two waves though.
To be fair, about the Makuta argument, G2 Makuta’s plans seem a lot better thought out than old Makuta’s “super convoluted plan”. If you think about it, in the first three years of Bionicle, his plan was pretty bare (for example, why didn’t he unleash the Bohrok before? Seems like they would have been pretty useful). This time the plan with LOSS, Kulta and Umarak seems better layered.
While he’s very weak, he gradually unleashes the Skull Spiders to take time and guard the ancient city, where the forge is, than when he’s moderately stronger he’s able to summon an undead minion (Kulta) to go and melt his brother’s mask (aka his main power source). Now here you have to imagine that Kulta had to search the MOCr for a heck of a long time before finding it, and right when he finds it Makuta finds out that the Protectors had summoned the Toa (remember, he didn’t know about the prophecy), so he tells Kulta to summon the Skull Army, while he tries to contact in some way Umarak, giving him new powers maybe (to “tame” him), as a plan B in case Kulta fails. And plan B is obviously to find the MOCo (through the Creatures) and transform Umarak into a monster to do something we don’t know yet.
I’d say he’s a pretty smart guy, and sure he had to scheme a lot in those hundreds of years (and the “mindless minions” thing is actually safer for an evil plan).
EDIT: apparently I was wrong, the Skull Spiders found the MOCr and hid it on the bridge of the Ancient City, waiting for Kulta to arrive, but the rest seems accurate.
How was Kulta controlling the Skull Spiders before the Mask of Control created LoSS?
Oops, I’m getting off-topic. Back to Makuta.
What’s interesting is that he can manifest as a Shadow-Flame Being (not a Balrog) whereas Ekimu can’t (or hasn’t yet). Sure Ekimu could communicate to the Toa through their Golden Masks of Power, but Makuta can actually speak to his minions.
What’s also interesting is that Umarak has been hunting for the Elemental Creatures since his birth from the shadows, and yet he doesn’t catch one until JTO.
Were the Elemental Creatures in a hibernation mode for a thousand years because of the shockwave?
Did the shockwave send Umarak to the Underworld and Makuta recruited him in return for helping him awaken and he helped Umarak escape?
Only TIME will tell.
But in the meantime, keep speculating/theorizing.
Kulta wasn’t controlling the Skull Spiders, LOSS was just following Makuta’s commands (in this case to leave the MOCr to Kulta).
Also I think that Umarak couldn’t catch a creature because of the “balance between light and darkness”, but maybe Makuta gave him some of the powers he has in JTO (I mean, Umarak must have taken some kind of advantage from the work for Makuta) that broke this balance, making Umarak able to capture a creature.
I agree with that, but the actual quality of the plan wasn’t what I intended to address. For me, Teridax seemed to be characterized better because we saw him planning–we watched his mind working as the Toa defeated his various minions, and we observed his reactions to those developments.
G2 Makuta, on the other hand, has been largely absent in-story. We see his plan, we know it’s good, but we lack the motivations and reactions behind it, a key part of what makes someone’s character. That’s why Teridax, to me, is better characterized–because we see his process, not just the outcomes…
Oh, ok, I didn’t get it when I read the post 
.
I actually kinda like how G2 Makuta is pretty absent, but influences the whole story (like Sauron).
Don’t get me wrong, I kinda like it too, but even Sauron was given character elements by other characters that knew him (i.e. Gandalf). The only real characterization Makuta has gotten has been GN #2 (which I haven’t even read yet). JtO and the webisodes don’t say much about him other than “he’s powerful” or “he’s jealous”…
I strongly recommend you the GN2 then. It makes Makuta’s character a lot clearer, trust me.
Good. I’m thinking of waiting until Escape from the Underworld comes out–then I’ll get both at the same time!
Makuta Teridax was much more arrogant in G1, toying with the Toa Mata, underestimating their power, speaking with them directly, etc. G2 Makuta is more distanced because he is not as arrogant as before, preferring to lie a safe distance away from the Toa, and telling Umarak “not to underestimate” them.This is possibly due to the fact that the Toa are portrayed as mysterious god-like beings, whereas in G1 Toa were just a common species. Now he kinda has a reason to fear. It makes sense that he’s much more careful with his planning this time around, which would consequently make him the more dangerous in the final confrontation
I mean, what if Kulta found the MoCo and Umarak found the MoCr? I don’t know if it would make a huge difference.
I agree with that description, but in the end, numerous others could be written that just as easily describe G2 Makuta, but with different characteristics. For example, you could argue either that he was jealous of Ekimu or that he merely wanted to help the Okotans with the MoUP. Similarly, you can portray him as arrogant for believing he could control such a powerful mask, or humble for creating it in order to better the world.
You see what I mean? Because Makuta isn’t as present, we can’t see him act definitively (though I believe this will change in 2017) and reveal the real aspects of his character. It’s all speculative and uncertain, because our understanding of his true motives is tenuous.
I’m pretty sure this will be alleviated next year, when he will (probably) appear in person. This could open a lot of speculation, though…
What do you guys think? How will Makuta act next year, when his plans finally reach their endgame? What would you like to see from him–scheming arrogance or wayward humility?
I’ll make something to interfere with their Unity, I’ll keep them away from their Duty, I’ll do… something to their Destiny! Mwahahahha!