tbh, I don’t remember either, and I’m the one that went off on him.
It’s of my opinion that change for the sake of change is bad and should be avoided wherever possible. It adds little to nothing and causes the franchise to lose a part of its identity/charm.
Don’t worry, everyone who reads this’ll think of one for themselves.
You are literally talking to the guy who triggered an entire thread’s worth of users on the Smite forums with a single post about a jar of Prego sauce. I cannot go into further details because, again, NSFW territory. It’s in my veins, bruh. I can’t stop the fecesposting.
This war has been going for over a week now, so long that the beginning is getting fuzzy.
A good viewpoint in my opinion.
Correction: You can and you will. There is nothing cool about being like that. Don’t make any of our staff have to repeat this sentiment.
What I meant by that was that I can’t totally avoid my own memetic mannerisms. I can, however, keep them to other sites where I can talk about that kind of thing. I came here assuming that that was what I would have to do, just as I did with BZPower (and would still be doing if I could remember my login info). I’d LIKE to go into more details on that subject matter, but this isn’t the place for that and I get that. I’m not a troll, and I don’t have any desire to cause any grief. Hence my original post that started this exchange, where I acknowledged that I couldn’t say anything, and referred to this fact.
True, Change for Change’s sake isn’t something we should be looking for.
However, the changes to the elements do have a reason.
For example, some of us think that a Toa of Earth who communes with nature would be a really cool idea, and one which we would rather see than a toa of soil. Again.
And as for the ice/water thing, there are many of us who read it as being the same element, and think that all it does is split hairs where hairs do not need to be split. For example, we can still have Kopaka use Ice where Gali uses water, without the need for seperate elements. There is also the option of introducing another elements which deals with removing heat instead of frozen water.
The change is not unfounded, rather it is speculation on what might make for a more interesting idea.
here is an idea i just realised.
what if his ability to communicate with nature is still used… but its not related to his elemental power.
Basicly im saying that Onua can still talk with plants, rock, dirt and so on, but its not related to his elemental power, but instead his “special ability”. Its sort of like the mask powers of G1 exept they don’t have to be tied to the toa’s masks.
Well, first of all, as @PakariNation99 implied, Nature is a really broad term; If one thinks of nature one would think of both flora and fauna (meaning pants and animals, and only Makuta in G1 could control animals).
Secondly, nature plus shifting of tectonic plates, plus opening solid rock, and whatever else Var stated in kind of still OP, even with limitations.
This is the reason why some of us believe that Onua should be the Toa of Earth (that would just manipulate soil) rather than a Toa of Nature Plant-life. ('cause a toa that control tectonic plates (which are ROCK) is not a toa of Nature, nor, really a toa that controls plants. It’s just too many powers combined together)
I’m kind of confused. Are you suggesting that both Kopaka and Gali be toa of water? Just that one controls water and the other ice? It would seem kind of pointless.
An element that would remove heat would be called what exactly? Cold? Toa of Cold? Toa of Chill? Toa of Frost? Sort of imples he/she is weak, as frost can sometimes be melted from one’s breath Toa of The Cold?Actually, this doesn’t sound as bad as the others, but it would still sound too close to the “Toa of The Green” we got with G1, for my liking And if you would have a toa remove heat, you woul, most likely, have a toa that adds heat (which fire gives off) as well. It just sounds unnecessary to me.
But that’s what toa of ice (in g1, g2 didn’t last long enough to have it specified) do, reduce temperature and have kinesis over frozen objects, that’s been my argument this whole time, they just called it ice because it was the best word to simply convey that.[quote=“JonBlueFire, post:724, topic:33898”]
Secondly, nature plus shifting of tectonic plates, plus opening solid rock, and whatever else Var stated in kind of still OP, even with limitations.
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That, and they have nothing in common, so combining them seems strange to me.
I agree.
It’s too many powers that clash with each other (like, we get that all he said happens in the ground (except maybe plants; that’s both below and above), but they are not in the same collection of powers)
Fair enough. And it’s not something I’m unwilling to concede, but it isn’t change simply for change’s sake. It’s an idea, and it’s designed to be chatted about and tossed around.
Just a different idea for the Toa team make up.
I agree, but again I say: [quote=“PakariNation99, post:713, topic:33898”]
It’s not “for no good reason”. Is not the point of this discussion to generate ideas? I’m generating ideas.
[/quote]
I understand it’s not a good idea, I never said it was, so please if you must take it as a way of how not to do things.
But I appreciate this.
I’m disappointed that’s what was taken from my original statement.
Phrasing is important when dealing with people in their late teens/early adulthood. Don’t worry, your actual point was noticed too, but it seems no one has a comment relating to it.
What does this even mean?
Look, you’ve already been told to stop, so please either do that or don’t comment here if you can’t control yourself…
Honestly, I came in here REALLY late, but better late than never, I suppose.
Personally, I feel like we should just keep the Toa the same, with the exception of Pohatu. I honestly think he’d work well as Iron (or metal, or whatever), partly due to the fact that Po-Matoran culture has a lot to do with crafting and creation. Likewise, the material people usually think of when it comes to creation is metal- It’s used in some of our greatest innovations and technology, and is far easier to work with than stone. You make one mistake on a stone sculpture, for example, and you might have to restart with a new block.
But with metal, you can just remold the stuff as you see fit, and always reuse the material as one sees fit. It’s something I can see Po-Matoran use. And, yes, I get metal was also something Ta-Matoran worked with, but this was when they were Mask Makers in Metru Nui, and since we seem to be sticking with the island of Mata Nui, I think it’s a change we can work with.
Not to mention, Iron and metal in general can work in a desert setting. Metal can be found in canyons, so I imagine that an Iron Tribe would live inside a canyon within the desert, using the shade to their advantage and having huts and villages sticking out from the cliffs, with mines built in to harvest iron from.
Also worth noting is that the natural color of iron ore can also be a bit of orange hue- One of the colors for Iron Toa in G1. As we all know, Pohatu’s worn orange before (albeit to mixed critical response), and bronze is also another color for Iron Toa in G1, so we could use that if we gave Pohatu control over metal in general.
Not to mention, I don’t think Iron would be TOO different from stone. Instead of Pohatu lobbing chunks of stone… we’d have him lobbing chunks of iron. Instead of making all the stone in the Shadowed One’s fortress crumble, he’d make all the iron collapse, etc. It’s not like changing Kopaka to Lightning or anything- While not exactly the same thing, Stone and Iron are still a lot closer together than most of the element changes (such as Jungle-Air).
That being said, I’m also completely fine if they keep the elements and cast the exact same, so long as they don’t give Stone the short end of the stick, like they did in G1… and G2 for that matter. Really, the main thing I want to see in the end is more developed and human personalities for the Toa, and that’s really it. Anything else I can work with (besides getting rid of one of the Toa entirely).
In short, it means you were the post all along. You only needed to look inside yourself for some…spiritual…thing…
TBH I never even thought of it that way. If I wasn’t convinced before, I would be now. Though I do want to point out that lobbing chunks of metal when its inherent flexibility seems more suited for stabbing/lashing/tentacling at targets is a bit of a strange decision on the user’s part, even if they are trying to avoid killing anyone.
Well, I suppose it depends on how kid-friendly we’re trying to make G3…
I mean, he doesn’t HAVE to impale anyone, just as Tahu doesn’t have to decapitate anyone with his sword. It just seems weird to have a weapon and not use it the way it’s supposed to be used. Like how in Chima, everyone hit people with the flat side of their swords because that would actually be effective. And nothing’s saying the end of the shards of metal wouldn’t be blunt, so that he’d still be using them a bit more like his original boulders.
Well it’s a toy line, soo…
Toa code, no killing.
I really don’t want to do this again…
I’ll put this simply: iron ore is just a glorified rock, having a Toa of iron control iron ore is just making a very narrow version of a Toa of stone. Purified iron does not occur in nature, technically metallic iron does but it is riddled with impurities which make it brittle, pure metallic iron however does not. With all of the other elements being natural it seems out of place, not to mention that everyone in the Bionicle universe is particularly made of metal and could be torn apart by a Toa of iron. Those are my feelings, please don’t make this take three days.
Well, I don’t want to start another element debate war, but on the other hand, I also want to put forth my ideas as well…
Personally, I think we can deal with the issue of Iron being used to control people by going back to good old Protodermis- Due to its artificial nature, I can feasibly imagine a Toa of Iron being unable to control it as a retcon, so that material can be used in people instead.
Additionally, if Pohatu can control Iron, then feasibly I imagine he could tear out the impurities and compress it into a more purified form, kind of like how Water-Benders can ‘bend’ broth by controlling the water within, but in a sort of reverse way where they use their element to get rid of the additional parts, instead of moving them.
Besides, if brittle iron ore is similar to Stone, then I imagine we could also work with that to retain Pohatu’s old ‘Stone’ identity more by having natural iron function similarly to stone, with Pohatu being able to refine it into purer forms as he becomes stronger and hones his abilities.
That being said, again- I’m fine with the ‘If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ approach to the elements by keeping them and the cast the same. Because, let’s be honest- It wasn’t the elements that killed g2, it was the mediocre writing, poor use of budget, nonexistent advertising, questionable design choices, and a whole slew of other really depressing things.