In regards to the use of CCBS/System. As long as its not overtaking, I do think its fine. Back in the day there used to be a ratio for how much non-Technic/Old constraction there could be, and I think that could work just fine with CCBS as well.
I would like to see contests come back but not for characters such as Artakha, Orde, Johmak, etc. Having canonizing moc contests feels like a competition for having the best headcanons. A better route would be something similar like the Dark Hunters or rahi contests. Have fans’ mocs be canonized instead of canonizing a characters appearance.
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I don’t really see what’s the point of having a “no CCBS and no System” rule. Fans should be free to make their MOCs however they like, as long as the style is still reminiscent of G1.
Not mention, it’s very likely that some of the younger fans don’t have enough Technic/G1 pieces to make MOCs, so they should be free to use CCBS or System if they don’t have any other opinion.
If anything, allowing only Technic/G1 pieces to be used would just be limiting the creative potential of the MOCs.
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One thing I want to mention with characters like Tuyet, where they have a mask, and that mask has no canon appearance.
You could pull a Krakua and use a different mask model. Krakua has a suletu, even though his physical model has a hau. He’s not the only canon character to do this either. Norik canonically bears a pehkui, even though the mask is physically a kiril.
I think G2 masks could easily be used for substitution if someone wanted to use something a bit different than a G1 mask.
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I’ve done my best to spread the word about this poll on MOCpages (sure, it’s not very active, but there are a few members of the Bionicle community there)
Agreed. After all, look at Lurker, the Dark Hunter: he actually has some system pieces used in his construction (not many, but a few) and his depiction is canon.
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I actually voted No, which kind of feels like heresy because I’d love nothing more myself than to leave some kind of stamp on the BIONICLE canon, however I think this creates more problems than it would solve, both within the community and with the canon itself.
In the years after G1 when Greg was answering questions and thereby adding tidbits of new lore, the process demystified a lot of the universe without providing a story/framework around it. We were hearing all about Velika and the Awakening (revelations which for me personally spoil some of the magic and mystery of the MU) but without being given a reason to care about these revelations. And since there was no story to follow-up afterwards, they were kind of irrelevant anyway. So what was the point in us knowing? What did it contribute?
In terms of the community, having made my own fanon and been around so many talented fans for most of my life now, it’s clear to me that some people are very inclined to try and make their version of a character or a mask the top dog. Even if it’s not canon, they want everyone else to accept it. This is a very dangerous attitude, and I’m worried that especially at a time when there’s no much new art - and so many new 3D designs - being made of various masks in particular, this could do more harm than good in the community.
I’d just like to add that not everyone is like that. I’ve seen so many MOCs of Orde and Zaria and seen the creators be so supportive to one another, even when their designs vary wildly, and that’s very special. I’d much rather we as a community foster this kind of camaraderie where everyone is on a level playing field (which is kind of what I was hoping BIONICLE Generations might inspire, once I get around to finishing it). That’s also not to say that these contests would automatically cause problems, but I suspect the few will ruin it for the many, and I’ve been disappointed by others on this kind of thing too many times not to be cautious.
Now, if there were still official books, comics or other media being created, and the G1 saga was ongoing, my attitude would be very different, but until that happens (which I doubt it will) my answer’s going to have to be a no. I’m sure, seeing the votes, that this will go ahead, and I hope it works and that my concerns turn out to be unfounded, but I suspect they won’t be.
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My suggestion is that, a suggestion. I’m not against the usage of 3D masks, however is a MOCist doesn’t have said 3D printed masks, should they go out of their way to buy a mask just for this competition? No, they really shouldn’t.
There’s also MOCs where people have built their own kanohi out of smaller pieces, which honestly do work really well. My suggestion is kinda just use what you got.
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I think this depends on how it would be handled. I would be against any contests for things that would introduce big changes to the lore or main story, but if they’re just side stories that add more flavor to underdeveloped areas I would absolutely love to see them.
Additonally, as @Fluffsheep suggested, contests in the vein of the DH or Rahi contests would be a neat way of adding to the world without changing much about it.
I’d be interested in more MOCs, but I’m also supporting this with the intent/hope that there might even be some lore canonization. Contests like “A Thousand Years Untold”, which gave us the short stories Tentacles, The Dweller Report, and Hope would be cool because they might fill in some canonical stories near the ending.
I’m back and forth on the idea of 3D printing parts and so forth; I’ll leave that to the rest of the community to debate. I acknowledge it as a point of creativity, but if someone wants to replicate a MOC, then it becomes difficult for them to do so.
- It sounds like you’re talking about fan material that extrapolated the story past its cliffhanger endings (as opposed to fan material during the story or deviating from the story), so that’s what I’ll address. I like the plethora of current fan material to read. It’s nice because you can fantasize about “what if” or “what might” scenarios and it’s cool to take a story you love and watch it unfold in different ways. However, canonizing new material over those fan projects and writings wouldn’t negate or invalidate them in any way. They’re already FAN material. They can’t get any less canon than they already are. There are other fan stories that occur during the middle portions of the story because writers/fans wanted to play around with the story there. It’d become similar for stories set near the ending. They’d be a good read to see where things could have gone, they just wouldn’t be canon…but again, they already aren’t. So I don’t think it would “screw over” fan projects.
- A much shorter point: the fan authors could submit their works and then possibly have those accepted as canon. That’d be cool, too.
I’ve been working on my own ending to Bionicle for some time, and read lots of others’ stories on it, too. I think it’d be cool to have a set canonical story, suggested by a writer and accepted by Greg. But it gets dicey and debatable, so that might be a conversation for another time.
EDITED FOR DOUBLE POSTING - Spiderus Prime
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That’s a big no from me. The only function of a challenge like this is to pit different people’s interpretations against one another, and see whose headcanon can gather marginally more votes. The process will inevitably lead to bickering and division when people’s preferred versions don’t win.
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I mean, I agree that this is a fair point for the sake of giving everyone the chance to participate, but on the other hand it just feels wrong to me.
And to be perfectly honest - I don’t see younger fans really standing a chance to begin with. I don’t mean to discourage anyone, but let’s look at this realistically: The average age for the Rahi and Dark Hunter contests was about 10. For later stuff people were maybe in their teens. Any new contests would be AFOL ones. And I expect most of those to be between the figureheads of the MOCing community competing with each other.
There exist fan projects that try to respect canon lore in every aspect while building their own things atop of that. Even information that might seem super insignificant at first could potentially result in all of that collapsing.
I think I’ll have to vote No in the poll. This whole thing would be bound to cause more problems that it solves. It might be the first contest were actually I myself might stand a chance with my MOCs, and it definitely has a certain allure to have a MOC canonized, but ultimately I fear that the contest rules wouldn’t follow my admittedly very defined preferences. And I’ve always been of the opinion that something needs to be either done right or not at all.
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Please, let bionicle g1 die in peace, no more canonizations. Greg did a poor job of it in the past, and with things like JK Rowling ‘canonizing’ stuff that does not matter, should not matter, or is not reflected in the source material, this is only gonna end poorly.
Imo people should stop caring about canonizing stuff when plenty of fans do a better job of working within the constraints of the setting, or pushing it in new directions.
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Not really a fan of this to be perfectly honest so I voted no.
Would I like for my designs to be canonized in some way? Sure I would.
But I feel we’re at the point of the BIONICLE fandom’s lifespan where the lack of a canon appearance is more intriguing than actually having a concrete depiction to refer to. I don’t think we’re in desperate need to know which of our mocs or drawings of Tuyet Greg thinks could and should be the official appearance to replace the “No Image Available” hole in the biosector01 infobox with.
“Yes” seems to be winning regardless of the arguments against it so have fun with whatever you guys feel like doing.
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There’s no guarantee it won’t turn into another JK Rowling retcon show so no.
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The thing I really, really don’t understand about the masks issue is this: we have so many un-Kanohi’d mask shapes from G2 and Hero Factory (though obviously several examples from the latter would be inappropriate). Heck, it’s not like many of them look more robotic than the Volitak or Miru Phantoka or [Insert Ice Toa Mask Here].
Also, I feel I should mention, Canon is… well… I get that everyone cares a lot about this lore. I’ve spent most of my life with these names and concepts rattling around my head, and I care about them too. That said, what Greg says is canon, what is canon in some intangible sense, doesn’t actually change anything if you don’t want it to. Even if everyone else has this other assumption in their head, you can just claim “my headcanon” or “fanon” or “In My Bara Magna”. You can never control how someone else sees a character, so why decry this opportunity just so that people don’t think this thing that you think is wrong? They already think a billion things slightly wrong!
The way I personally see it, this world we play and write in is largely Greg’s headcanon, which gets to be canon because he wrote most of it, and that’s okay! He didn’t have much say as to the sets, and that’s still okay, because he’s apparently a dab hand at fitting everything into his cosmic jigsaw. Heck, I’m still writing stories based on the lore from the 2001 board game, and I know pretty well that a lot of people will recognise Lewa and Gali as the young storm gods constantly bickering over the shore, while ancient, silent Onua rises only to earthquake at those who displease him. I also write stories set in post-robot “Metru Magna”, with Gali the stressed-out workaholic Toa who’s misplaced half her team while “Chronicler Agori” and Malum work together to build bridges and Jaller tries to be Captain Superman in a world he can’t believe in. Both of these are fanfic; one is entirely ignoring ten years of detailed canon and working purely with original concepts, while the other is attempting to integrate every single tiny detail from those ten years into an extrapolated story. Neither of these extremes are contradictory to me, and neither will be particularly impaired by further canonisation; they’ll just be slightly more irrelevant than they already are, and no less fun for it. Maybe I should actually post a thing though…
Ultimately, Bionicle lore is just one chronicle we have. It’s the best source for a shared world we can best experience by building in its reflection, and no reflection is perfect. Everyone’s canon will always differ slightly, no matter how finely grained the confirmations become. That’s not a problem for me, because it’s just the nature of human experience. It also doesn’t stop us from playing together in our similar worlds, especially if we have a good idea of what the “default” world is and how we each differ from it (especially for those who do not have a clear MOC or artistic image themselves). I am personally all for giving people the chance to define that default, to get to add to so many people’s individual perceptions of this fantastic world. That’s because it’s a golden opportunity for that person, brilliant fun for the other entrants, everybody else gets to look at cool art and so on, as well as potentially bringing yet more bright-eyed people into the fold
Of course, my experience isn’t the only option and all of the above holds only so long as the community approves, for me. I won’t pretend that I’ve been interacting with the fandom enough to have that much of a say, but those are my two cents, and I’m happy to see the results so far.
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I’ve held off on voting here, but if I did, I would probably vote yes.
Now, the reason I’ve opted not to vote is simple. I do want there to be contests like these, and if they do happen, I will absolutely enter a moc into them (though maybe not art because I suck at it). But I don’t really have any strong feelings either way as to whether there should be contests like this, whether it would be good or bad for the community, etc. I feel… biased, I suppose.
If the poll leads to there being contests, I want it to be because the community agrees they should happen, not because I want them to happen.
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There are somethings I would’ve liked canonized, but I like many am kind of done with Bionicle. So, I voted no. Bionicle still holds a special place in my heart but I’ve come to the conclusion that we should just leave it alone. MOCs, new stories, or whatever else it maybe are more than welcome but trying to officially canonize things feels like it’s glaring too much into the past.
That being said it’s not really a huge deal if it does happen, if you all enjoy that go ahead.
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I can see that the custom parts debate is quite a controversial subject on this thread. I thought I’d put my own two cents in.
IMO, Such 3D-printed pieces like masks and shell parts shouldn’t be allowed design-wise, as they are obviously unfair advantages In the contest.
However, I think that custom connector parts should be allowed, as they can provide more versatility and flexibility in the design of a MOC which were not previously made available by the official Constraction system. (Though I don’t think that matters in a picture, unless someone would want to build this themselves like with G2 Makuta)
And speaking on the topic of custom masks, need I remind you that there are other, non-Bionicle heads and masks that could be used to represent previously-undepicted faces and kanohi?
There are such other themes as Hero Factory, Chima, Bionicle G2…heck, even Licensed themes such as Star Wars, Super Heroes and even Ben 10. That’s plenty of variety if you ask me.
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How exactly are they an unfair advantage when Shapeways exists? You can buy any custom part you want from there and use it as you see fit, of which there are hundreds. You do not have to own a 3D printer or have 3D modeling experience.
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What if we limit 3D parts usage to items only available on Shapeways & other such sites?
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