Battle of the Vahi(s)

So I’ve been thinking about the differences between the G1 and G2 Vahis, specifically how they would be used in combat, and even more specifically, against each other. Let me begin:

We know that the G1 Vahi can speed up and slow down time, presumably a wielder of sufficient power and skill could use this to create currents of various speeds in time around him and his opponent. Slowing down time around his enemy and speeding up time around himself. Effectively giving himself lightning fast reflexes and the ability to move around at speeds that would rival the Kakama.

On the other hand we have the G2 Vahi, which we know considerably less about. What we do know is that it is able to grant visions of the future to whoever wears it, an ability that would seem utterly useless in combat, but I would disagree. I figure that when used in combat the G2 Vahi would function similarly to Nicolas Cage’s powers in the movie Next. For those of you who haven’t seen Next, Nicolas Cage’s character has the power to see one minute into the future, this allows him to narrowly avoid a number of dangers from being hit in the face by a suddenly opened door, to dodging bullets. This interpretation would have the wielder of the G2 Vahi constantly glimpsing into the future to see the consequences of their actions before they happen allowing them to adjust for better outcomes. That being said, it’s still not perfect, as the outcome of the new actions could be just as bad if not worse than the originally planned actions. Perhaps instead it works more like Clockworking in Magic the Gathering, a power used by artificers on Esper to manipulate the timeline, and when mastered, allows them to steer themselves into the timeline of whatever future they want. This way, whenever the G2 Vahi is activated, the wearer would see themselves split off into various echos of themselves for every action that they could take. They would see these echos preforming these actions and the outcomes that each action would have, and, upon choosing which outcome they want, they would snap forward to the moment of the outcome, having already preformed the action.

Now, when things really get interesting is when you pit each mask against the other. Lets say that we take two protectors (so that we don’t have to deal with the elemental powers of toa ect.) of equal power and give each of them one of the Vahis. Now, I would assume that both of the Vahis would give their wearer the power to see the alterations in the time stream being made by the other, and as such they would be able to respond with their own mask. For example if the protector wearing the G2 Vahi attacked first, he would use his mask to choose an outcome where his attack is guaranteed to hit, however seeing his opponent alter time, the wearer of the G1 Vahi would use their mask to speed up himself or slow down his opponent allowing himself to narrowly escape and possibly even counterattack. Seeing this the wearer of the G2 Vahi would once again use his power to choose an outcome where he is able to perfectly counter his opponent and make another guaranteed attack, which would then be thwarted by his opponent once again altering time to allow himself to dodge. Now to be watching this battle from an outside perspective, it would be quite a sight. Even if both combatants were completely inexperienced, thanks to the power of the masks, it would look like a clash of masters, each one perfectly countering the others attacks while fluidly making attacks of their own that somehow against all odds are always managed to be dodged. Now, after all of this I ask you:

Who would win?


Sorry, I am not a physicist, so I cannot answer your question.

People of the boards, are there any physicists on here?

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I big missing variable in this hypothetical battle is that the combatants you describe have no personalities. Maybe that sounds stupid, but a person’s psychology plays heavily into how they would fight.

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I’m not sure the G2 Vahi works the way you think it does.

Ekimu implies in GN2 that it shows you the future, not a possible future. So it will either show the wearer themselves winning or losing, and whatever outcome it shows cannot be avoided.

I would expect it also does not show the future in enough detail to work out when a particular attack hits you, for example, because dodging that attack would be a paradox.

It all depends on the structure of time on Okoto, and whether Ekimu really knows how the Vahi works (though I would support his interpretation since it agrees with G1’s “no time travel” rule).


That’s only if you subscribe to the “the future is already written and cannot be avoided” thing that they have in G2, I personally think that having the entire future set in stone is boring and unrealistic.

As for the paradox of dodging an attack that would have hit you, I feel I need to clarify, in my example the G2 Vahi does not work continuously. The wearer is not constantly seeing a minute into the future or anything, rather, with each activation, he is able to see a certain distance into the future (variable by the user dependent upon what is necessary for the situation) and are then able to act accordingly. So, rather than them seeing into the future and seeing themselves get hit, which would create a paradox, they see the attack coming like any normal person would and then activate their mask in order to find what actions lead to them not getting hit.

I feel that I should also mention the reason that the G2 Vahi can’t account for the slowing down and speeding up of time made by the G1 Vahi is that I believe that it would only show you what actions are possible within the normal flow of time, or in other words, the G2 Vahi can’t comprehend or predict other alterations being made to the time stream by forces other than itself.

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I think the G2 Vahi has a power that hasn’t been considered yet.

We know that the Toa were summoned to Okoto via the temple of time. We know the G2 Vahi had a hand in that. If the temple powers the mask, then my point is moot. But if it’s the other way, and the mask powers the temple, then the G2 Vahi might have time travel powers. Or at least the ability so summon others from the past to aid in a fight.

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Regardless of weather or not it has that power, we know that doing that took a ritual involving multiple participants and the mask sitting on a pedestal with no one wearing it, as such I don’t think it would be relevant in this fight.


All right,I predict that G1 Vahi would win.
The wearer would speed up time in his opponent, effectively aging them to death.

While this is technically possible, it would be a very delicate procedure and we know that the G1 Vahi was notoriously difficult to control. Now in this scenario we are assuming that both protectors are competent in their ability to use their masks, but I feel like something like this would be beyond their skill level.

Something I would like to point out is that Greg Farshtey himself gave a solution to Nicholas Cage-type powers in one of the Ninjago Graphic Novels (I can’t remember which off the top of my head). Sensai Wu had to confront someone who could see a certain amount of time into the future. His solution was to build a small cage that was wide enough that it would take over a minute to escape. Wu lured the ninja to what was the center of the cage and then sprung it. Although the ninja saw the trap being sprung a minute ahead of time, by the time he reached the edge, a minute had passed and the cage was sealed.

Now of course, none of the villagers might be as smart as Wu or even have time to construct such an elaborate trap, but who knows?

A trap doesn’t really fit into this scenario, this is more of a gladiator style fight, one on one in an arena.

Well when Vakama and Tahu used it, they did so effectively…just also on them selves. So if the wearer were willing to die in order to kill the wearer of the G2 Vahi… I think it would work.

Or just much, much younger.

What? Didn’t they fail in both their cases?

Vakama succeeded in slowing time around Makuta, but as he had also done the same to himself, it was Lhikan who had to intervene.

Tahu also succeeded in trapping the Bohrok Kal in the effect of the Vahi, but also did the same to himself and the other Toa Nuva, so they were unable to do much, and the effect was rendered null when the Kraata Kal turned silver.

Vakama and Tahu were not able to use it effectively, using effectively would be to hamper your enemy without negatively affecting yourself, also, in this scenario the combatants are identical in every way except what mask they are wearing.

Okay then.

Use G1 Vahi to slow down time around your enemy so that for every second that passes for them, ten minutes pass for you.

True, they might be able to see an hour into your future, but hopefully you can take them out before the few seconds they need to see the future elapses.

This is a interesting topic, i’ll write something about it when im home.

I have a different question: what happends if the two mask get put together and someone wears it? Side effects? One thing cancels the other out? What power will they have?

Edited for Double Post - Prpl

Presumably wearing the “complete” Vahi would give you the powers of both of them, as well as possibly the ability to time travel, seeing as neither of them have that rather obvious power…

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