TTV does, and they A-OK’d Kodiak’s ruling. End of story. This pedantry benefits absolutely nobody and need not be considered for the contest.
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Bro.
Chill.
He’s allowed to ask, you’re allowed to ignore him if it bugs you.
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Yes. That is unmistakably an Inika thigh piece. It’s visible in the full photo as well, I just wanted to make it clear which part of the picture I was referring to.
But was that with or without the knowledge that Pouks’s thighs are indeed visible in the entry photo? We just got done with the Bomonga controversy in which TTV proved that they don’t always look at the pictures super close.
If TTV saw what we’re seeing right now and still okayed the change, then I’ll let it go.
(I’d then also question why they allowed such a change when they didn’t in the past, but that’s a new discussion.)
Considering they looked at the breakdown and photos at other angles, yes, I think you ought to let this go.
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And you had to zoom and enhance after 3 months of this MOC’s existence to notice. The fact that you had to do that means it is, by definition, not obvious.
The most important factor is that the guy who made the MOC and won the contest gave his blessing for this. Just as masks and spearheads were allowed to be changed with MOCcer’s consent, there is no reason whatsoever why thighs should not play by the same rules. And it’s a little late to go back, considering that there’s already a few art submissions thrown out there and the submission window ends in a week.
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The breakdowns and alternate angles don’t matter. That’s the whole reason that the thighs were allowed to be changed in the first place, because they supposedly weren’t visible in the single entry photo. If alternate angles were considered, then the thighs would be perfectly clear and changes never would have been allowed.
Again, this isn’t true. You can look at the picture on BS01 and see for yourself.
The thing is, the thighs literally do not play by the same rules as masks and spear tips. Masks and spears were given special exemption in the official contest rules. Thighs were not.
If all it takes for a change to be allowed is for the original creator to say it’s okay, then entrants could effectively enter multiple entries by saying “I’m okay with the entire appearance being changed to match this other design if I win”.
Yes, that’s an extreme example that TTV would never allow, but that’s my point: it’s TTV, not the creators, that ultimately decides whether or not a change is okay, and I’m questioning whether they were fully informed when making this specific decision.
Yeah, that’s true, which is why I acknowledged it in my original post:
My original intention was just to bring this to TTV’s attention and have them take it from there. I fully expect that TTV will say “Our bad again, too late to change it”, but assuming TTV’s stance on things is what led to the Bomonga controversy.
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I rest my case.
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The rules exist to protect the vision of the creator of the MOC. If both the creator of the MOC and people who wrote the rules say it’s okay, then who’s negatively impacted here? I can’t speak for TTV of course, but they knew the original part used was an Inika thigh and they still okayed this.
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Anyone who voted for that model because it used official gunmetal parts.
You have to paint and 3D print parts anyway, even if the Inika thighs were used
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This is much less impactful than recoloring the whole thing blue, which is also allowed. The shield and mask would have to be painted anyway.
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The original entry had multiple photos, showing the leg armour. That’s what TJ was getting at.
The art can also recolor the model to a dozen other mettalic colours that none of the parts come in.
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You keep using these slippery slope fallacies, when there’s nothing to suggest that any of them would be allowed, which you even stated yourself later in this post.
I’m making an educated assumption TTV has seen other photos of it, if that’s what you mean by “fully informed”.
The model has two other pieces that are not officially available in gunmetal, one of which is a 3d printed mask. It’s not gonna be purist either way. It’ll be even less purist if the spear tip changes to something else that’s not in gunmetal, which seems to be what a couple of people are doing.
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Yeah, massive non-purism could still be a final result. I’m not going to pretend that mandating the Inika thighs would guarantee a purist model. But given how often people cited purism as a reason for voting for an entry, it seems odd to allow the change of something that might have been a key issue for many people, regardless of why it’s allowed.
And that also ties into this:
The possibility of changing spears (and colours, for that matter) was something that was known going into the voting period, and voters were able to factor the possibility of change into their votes.
The possibility of changing thighs was not something that was known at the start of the voting process; if it was known that the thighs could be changed, the winning model might have gotten more votes from people who had been turned off by the unique thighs. Or, more importantly, it might have lost votes from the people who wanted a maximum-purism gunmetal Hagah.
Again, I wasn’t trying to literally suggest that that would ever actually happen. That was in response to the people claiming that the changes are okay just because the creator said they were; that ridiculous example shows why the creators can’t be the sole arbiters of what’s okay to change, and why TTVs involvement in the changes being allowed is still important.
I mean “aware that Pouks’s thigh armour can be seen in the entry photo”.
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Then it’s prolly reasonable to assume those people didn’t vote for that Pouks.
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People who were well aware that Pouks could be recolored to blue, or pink, or black, or gold, or green…
Yeah, it was cool that it was purist aside from the mask and shield. But everyone who voted for it already knew it never guaranteed purism of the canon appearance.
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Actually I’m pretty sure it’s because the convo started, Kodi said it was ok, and TTV saw no reason to disallow it. Voot’s point is that TTV has to have seen the breakdown photos, else they wouldn’t know what the thigh was at all. Kodi’s consent is the key to what’s happening here, and really the only thing that matters.
These thighs have been given that exemption now. Rules were added going into a new phase of the contest. It ain’t that deep.
Uh…no??? That doesn’t make sense. You’re slipping down the slipperiest of slopes. By your own admission, it will never happen, so your point is moot.
And they decided it was ok based on what the creator said.
There is no reason whatsoever to think they weren’t. The fact that they made this rule and acknowledged the discussion surrounding Pouks’s thighs indicates that they were informed.
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Paint can be removed in most cases. That’s why painting pieces is allowed and removing prints is not. Also, there are metru thigh pieces available literally for FREE on bricklink right now.
I think you are realllly overestimating how much the average person cared about thigh pieces.
Nobody is saying that creators should have full say, they bring up kodiak’s approval because it supports TTV’s approval. Also, you are still constructing an extreme scenario that nobody is arguing for to be possible here, not even the people you are trying to disprove. Still a slippery slope fallacy in that regard.
Okay, even if they didn’t notice, it’s because it’s only really seeable at all if you zoom into the build in order to make out anything that could be seen as parts of an inika thigh.
Once again, this really isn’t as big of a deal as you’re making it out to be.
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I think it’s worth mentioning that when I asked Eljay about this, my reason for requesting this change was uniformity. While Eljay’s response was more about the obscured thighs in the entry photo, I believe uniformity was another reason for its allowance. But it was allowed. It’s silly to bring this up so late in the game when it’s already been approved. 5 of the 6 art entries so far use Metru thighs for Pouks. Would it really be fair to those artists to suddenly disallow this change? TTV wouldn’t go back on this decision anyway.
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@TheJerminator
Let’s look at what Eljay said in full.
Emphasis mine.
Now, some minor changes have been allowed since the first contest. Surprisingly, no one has brought up that this:
Literally happened in the first contest, with Helryx’s hand changing from black to blue.
" the entry photo notably obscures the thigh armor entirely."
so this statement isn’t 100% true. What is true, however, is the spirit of what Eljay intended by this – that you can get away with changing the leg armor. And other minor changes: an entry has changed the hand colors, another changed the color of Bomonga’s limbs, one changed Bomonga’s shoulder armor and slightly altered the mask. The only change requested to be removed so far was eye color, meaning that eye color is considered a “significant change”.
No, Eljay said “that’s fine to change” before Kodiak said anything on the matter.
Doesn’t really impact anything, just thought I’d point that out.
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