That’s also and important point, I agree totally. Under the armor is just their muscle and maybe some if their metal skeleton, so their armor is their skin. I do think that some of their armor can be removed with more armor underneath, so for some of them with thicker armor it’s layered, but they all have a final layer of armor that covers their body.
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@frodobell Well, electronic brains would still be AI, as they were created and programmed by other outside forces. Also, I do think that you’re right about sleeping, as any processor would likely overload if it didn’t have time to cool down and process what it’s been through.
I’m not sure that the MUI are constructed or organized like humans, there are some pretty major differences, both biologically speaking and also psychologically, aside from the obvious mechanical parts, it just seems that, from the confirmed list of organs, (which really isn’t a list, there’s like one or two.) there’s a whole lot going on in there we don’t know about.
Actually, to combat the point of @Jowm, while normally I would totally agree with you, I’m trying to explain the way MUI work in canon. It’s pretty clear that the MUI are definitely governed by mechanical features, and while there is a large amount of biological tissues, (roughly like 20-30%, depending on species) they do not just have layers of armor and such on top of organic bodies. You might have been thinking of Bara Magna Inhabitants. They did have an organic makeup with steel bones. They also had implants to help in terms of strength, agility and other factors.
Also, I have recently come to the realization that, technically, the MUI are not alive. There are certain criteria in Biology that one must have to be alive.
-Move/respond to stimuli
-Grow/change over time
-Metabolism (making energy)
-Organization
-Reproduction
Technically, while they may be sentient, they are not alive because they don’t reproduce. The Bara Magna inhabitants may still be alive though.
That was something I just realized…
EDIT: I’m so sorry for posting this so late, but the site was having issues of course. =)
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I always pictured that their skeletons were a metal alloy acting in place of bones with organic tissue being used as muscle. I’m not sure how accurate that is but it’s a theory.
A friend on the LMBs told me once that Matoran and the like were capable if consuming food as we do, however it was not nessacary that they do so if there was a form of energy around to be readily absorbed. In Brothers in Arms it speaks of an energy well in Daxia that could be used for refreshment. Rahi just ate like wild animals. That’s an undisputed fact.
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Yeah, I remember that now. I wonder if the energy well acts like how @BarrelRider42 said, with the kanohi being a sort of conductor, gathering energy from its surroundings and transferring energy from the mask to the bearer.
That’s a possibility. I’m gonna ask Greg.
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Hmm. To note, I do believe that certain species are on different levels. Like my above comment, I think that species such as Skakdi and Visorak are more robotic than organic. They just feel that way.
Bohrok are robotic mech suits for face-shaped slugs. Enough said.
However, after thinking on it, I believe that Toa, Matoran, and Turaga are all primarily organic. Why? Because in order to switch forms from a Matoran to a Toa, you need matter that can grow. Metal can’t grow now can it? No, it can’t. Thus, organics.
Now, for something I’d like to address.
Okay, so the first part is an interesting argument. I like this kind of real world thinking. However, I somehow get the feeling that if you showed a scientist a walking, talking, creature with organic muscle and such, he’d probably make an exception to that rule.
Plus, if you’re going by that set, technically all cats and dogs that have been spayed or neutered were killed in the process and are no longer considered alive due to their inability to reproduce, which is something that has always bothered me.
Now, for the second part. Yes, the MUIs are sentient, however I don’t believe (and take note that I may be making some huge silly error here) that we’ve gotten confirmation that it is impossible for MUIs to reproduce. It’s just not the kind of thing you bring up in a series that is meant for young children. Greg has just said that he won’t tell us how Matoran and Toa are made.
One last thing, that I’m surprised no one has brought up. Kaitas, anyone? How do Toa combine themselves to create one larger being? Well, in the first place, this is something I tend to ignore. I disliked the idea in the first place. But, for the sake of discussion, I’m going to consider it. In this case, I am guessing that to actually remain alive, there must have been either some form of magic, or it’s something where certain mechanical parts split off of the Toa’s bodies, and form the arms, while the actual Toa remains behind. One Toa becomes the actual body, encased by extra armor, and using the split off mechanical bits as arms, and the other two become the legs or something.
Wow. That sounds kinda stupid.
Anyway, I’m not a big fan of the idea in the first place. I hope you’ve enjoyed reading my (most-likely misguided) way of interpreting this topic.
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I always thought that the Kaita were different beings somewhere else (perhaps the spirits of the two Glatorian pilots of Mata Nui?) and the Toa Mata were transported somewhere else when they combined.
I do see your argument, and I would agree that any self-respecting biologist would take a look at the MUI and say “Yup, those are alive.”
I do find fault in the neutering argument, after all, the organism in question would have been able to reproduce before. It was due to an outside force that they can no longer reproduce, but I can also see that this argument could turn into “Well that means all corpses are actually alive.” But that’s an illogical fallacy, a slippery slope if you will. Nonetheless, it is hard to truly define living and non-living. I was bringing up the point that based on the criteria I’m learning in class, the MUI would not be considered alive.
I think that it was confirmed that the MUI have no genetalia, I recall someone bringing this up in a gender debate, saying that without the genetalia, was there really any need to distinguish between male and female? Also, with the Red Star Zombie Maker, there would really be no need to have reproduction, as long as the entire population doesn’t go sticking their heads into a lava flow. But you might be right in saying that it was never confirmed that they can’t reproduce.
Bara Magna Inhabitants I think can however, seeing as how they’re mostly organic with mechanic implants. Also, there’s the whole thing with Gresh being a newbie and stuff, he had to have come from somewhere. I’d bet reproduction.
Thirdly, I agree that Kaita are very… odd. They make sense for Rahkshi and Bohrok, as they’re mechanical shells, but otherwise, the Kaita disprove the mostly organic theory.
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I just checked BS01 and there is nothing about this topic, thus it wasn’t confirmed.
I mean BS01 has freaking everything on Bionicle and there was no mention of the inability to reproduce. However there was a note that at least Rahi CAN reproduce BIOLOGICALLY. Thus it would make sense that other MUIs would follow.
As for the neutering argument, it’s just something that has bothered me. I realize that once again,
would definately look at a dog who has been neutered and say that it was alive. However, it no longer meets the criterion for life.
As for Glatorian…yeah I think that they are basically implanted humans with odd colors of skin. Not to say that they are human, it’s just the best relation.
As for Kaita, I don’t really have much to say. You can’t just rip organic matter apart, however if it IS some form of magic, then it makes sense. We ARE talking about some sort of species that can control the elements and make masks that can let you control Time.
I’m still sticking with my mostly organic theory, though. I think that their mechanical armor is what enhances their durability and strength. This is re-enforced by the piston details on so many Bionicle parts.
EDIT: Another point in my favor for the primarily organic theory is groups such as the Barraki. The Barraki were comprised of six different species, most of which were never confirmed. This means that there is in fact a chance that one of the six might have originally been a Toa. While this is unlikely, you should never ignore something like that. Why is this a point towards organics? Because of the Pit Mutegen. I doubt that metal is going to be affected much by a virus. Thus, organic material is the real change.
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So I asked Greg and he says that it was never elaborated as to why Matoran Masks function as they do in sustaining life.
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Actually, because one species reproduces the same way we do does not mean that Matoran do the same. Remember that every animal in the MU was created by the Makuta and not the Great Beings. The GBs had intended for everything to simply function as a machine with love driven by the need to reproduce not playing a factor (because if that wouldn’t cause conflict I don’t know what would 
).
Yup! I’m referring to biomechanical creations reproducing biologically.
In theory, since Rahi were created by Makuta, their system of biological reproduction could have been based off of MUIs. Makuta themselves obviously don’t due to being gas inside a suit of armor, thus they would need to base it off of something.
The Great Beings, however, were indeed brilliant. While their original plan was obviously to “respawn” all dead MUIs through the Red Star, I’m sure they would have had some form of backup plan for if the Red Star failed, which it did. Without the Red Star, the entire set of species residing in the MU would slowly dwindle until they vanished completely. Thus I would not be surprised if they had made the MUIs without emotions in the first place, to make them drones, per say (however this emotional lock must have been faulty, because we saw emotions one way or another), but still built in some ability to reproduce.
Also, while on the topic of GB, how do you suppose they reproduce?
They simply spawn into existence.
Jk jk
I’ve always wondered if the GB are humans, or a race very similar to humans. The GB of course are far more advanced than anything we could be in ten thousand years, but still.
Another thought is that, like Makuta, they have evolved past the need of a physical being. This could explain Velika, his informants and some other stuff. The GB are probably more god like beings who have the ability, but it’s rather unnecessary.
On a different train of thought, because the MUI are bio mechanical beings, and they probably wouldn’t even be able to reproduce correctly, because you can’t grow metals. Protodermis has some amazing qualities, but I’m not sure if it’s capable of growing from a cell into an arm
Protodermis is probably the answer because it can exist in so many different forms. The pit mutagen could have to do with warping and changing the organic protodermis’ mass.
Also, the Barraki came from different islands, mostly the southern ones. It was confirmed that there was more of Ehlek’s species at least, and Pridak was a Makuta lackey more or less. The point is that the Barraki aren’t the best example for your argument. Like I said before, I think that the adaptations and such are be aura of protodermis’ unique properties.
This is an interesting thought. It’s not only a good argument, but a good way of thinking.
Well my counter is that it could be possible for a biomechanical being to reproduce, but the offspring would not be biomechanical. That may seem like a rubbish counter to many, but think about it. If a human was given mechanical components, and then had offspring, would the offspring have mechanical components? Of course not! It’s just not a possibility.
Now here’s some food for thought for you:
Where did the Great Beings come from?
Now I’m not going to go too far into this, but within the realm of Bionicle, there is the possibility that there was some sort of precursor to the Great Beings, a Supreme Being if you will. Something that made the things that make.
Supreme Being > Great Being
Great Being > Makuta
Makuta > Their creations
It’s a line.
As for my Barraki example, you do bring up a good point. It is possible that some sort of virus or chemical could mutate the metal. But, seeing as we don’t know what the Barraki looked like in the first place, we don’t technically even know if all of them were biomechanical in the first place. One point of this is that Pridak’s set design, which became the first set since the original Makuta model to have a purely smooth motif. He used Nuva legs, Rahkshi legs, Vahki waists, a smooth head, and nothing truly mechanical looking. It’s possible that the only mechanical parts that he had were internal. He actually looked pretty organic to me. That’s why he’s one of my favorite sets.
A biomechanical being would have mechanical parts as one of their core systems of function. Without the mechanics, the offspring just wouldn’t “work.” There would be something fundamentally wrong with it, and quite possibly, in the case of MUI, would fall apart and not even “live” in the first place. It would be very hard to make a biomechanical being (Implants do not count) that could fully reproduce. It might even be impossible.
Yes Pridak was smooth and aesthetically more “Organic” than most other sets, but he was based off of a shark, a very streamlined sea creature. The same goes with the other Barraki, they were based off of an organic creature we see here on Earth. For all we know, “sharks” in the MU don’t look a thing like our sharks. The point I’m making is that the pit mutagen just… mutated them. Like Hordika Venom, it morphed them and caused them to look the way they do, without a goal in mind, unlike the LEGO set designers ho wanted them to look more like sea creatures.
A lot of the difference in opinion here is that I am going with a primarily organic theory and you’re going with a primarily mechanical theory.
In my theory, the MUIs are your basic organic life form, with mechanical armor that connects to both external and internal attachments and implants. This is what gives them the ability to lift over a ton and makes them extremely durable. Without their armor they become basically humans with masks. In extension of my theory their powers come from some sort of mechanical enhancement. This idea mostly comes from the idea that the Vorox on Bota Magna were able to disable the Toa’s abilities, which could possibly come from some sort of sonic frequency hack or the like.
In your theory, the Toa are practically suits of armor with some organic organs. This isn’t a particularly bad theory, in my eyes. Not at all. It’s what is actually the widely accepted theory. The reason I’m going against it is merely personal preference and interpretation. I just like the idea of being able to the Toa actually being able to remove their armor, but it’s just not a common thing to do.
While this has been a really fun debate, with many excellent points, I’m not seeing how it can go much further.
Unless of course you have a counter.
In which case game on >:D
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You think this is a game?
Nah, but seriously. I do understand the mostly organic point of view, after all, it’s easier to imagine and explain. I used to think that too, but I guess for me it just made sense that they were more mechanical. Agree to disagree I suppose. It had been fun though!
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I have my own theory about biomechanical beings having offspring.
We already have the confirmation that Muaka ate Rahkshi, which are almost entirely mechanical. So why would they do that? Eating a bunch of metal isn’t something I would suggest you to do. But what if they used some kind of acid in their “stomach” to decompose the metal and later use it to create biomechanical offspring.
This may even be the reason why Muaka considered Rahkshi a delicacy. They needed all the metal they could get. Don’t ask me how herbivores would get the needed metals. I still have to think of an explanation for that.
So what about Matoran or even Toa?
There are a bunch of sources that have Matoran or Toa eat different types of plants. I don’t actually know if there are sources having Matoran eat Rahi and I’m too lazy to look it up right now. But what I know is that Ga-Koro caught and sold fish-Rahi and I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t keep them as pets. So yeah…yummy biomechanical fish.
So MUI could reproduce while still having biomechanical offspring.
They probably were programmed so they won’t reproduce unless the red star fails or the MU was destroyed. But every system has flaws and this could explain the kind of romantic relationships between Hewki and Macku, Jaller and Hahli or even Norik and Varian.
But hey it’s just a theory! A Gam…wait…A BIONICLE THEORY!
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@Ekorak
I asked Greg about the GBs once and he said that they were probably organic beings native to Spherus Magna. Their great power comes from their greatly advanced scientific knowledge. So who knows what they really are.
Sorry for dropping the discussion, had a bit of a login issue. Anyway, I didn’t mean to imply that their bodies were mostly organic with metal layered outside, that, like you said, would be more like the Bara Magna inhabitants.
Instead, I meant to infer that their bodies on the inside would be compiled of muscle mass, organs(lungs, heart, some form of brain, and a digestion system that I think ends in either an incineration organ or acid organ, since they do not excrete), metal bones and some form of gear or lever system in the joints, like the elbows and knees, with metal parts embedded around all that making up a sort of metal plated “skin” and any extra armor attached onto that.
I would tend to think that areas like the joints work a little differently than ours, if you know the mechanical and physical properties of machines you can see why a well designed machine arm can easily be stronger and overpower a human arm. Simply because of the way the metal parts use the energy given to them, a gear system can be much more every efficient than human elbow muscles. And hydraulics can far outmuscle many human muscles. I would tend to think then, since they’re clearly significantly stronger than us, without being proportionally bigger and we know they’re part mechanical, that their muscles, instead of powering a joints system we’re familiar with, power a system that smoothly blends organic muscle with mechanical gears, hydraulics and the like in their limbs and throughout their body for much of their articulation, giving them the capacity to be well over twice as strong as us without having to have muscles that are twice as big. I personally have always thought of them as an organic-mechanical combination like this, and to me it makes the most sense.
As for their energy consumption, I have to say that they mask idea does make sense, but I can’t say I agree with it. I specifically remember at one point it was said or mentioned that they absorb energy through their palms, meaning they must have some kind of energy absorbers there.
One last point, someone said they thought Matoran and Toa and Turaga must be more organic than any other species in the MU because when their bodies change sizes the metal wouldn’t be able to accomplish the change. If we were talking about earth-steel you would be absolutely right, but we’re talking about protodermis, known for having many different forms, liquid, energized, crystalline, metallic, etc. think of it like a very base substance that the GBs used as a base for everything, and by changing its properties a little they were able to change its form. Now since Matoran, Toa, and Turaga’s armor is made up of metallic protodermis its properties are able to be changed when they are filled with Toa energy, or drained of it when they become Turaga. This gives their protodermis armor the capacity to change size and shape while they are being filled with or drained of Toa energy, and thus they needn’t be any more or less organic than any other MU inhabitants.
And as for reproduction, I remember Greg mentioned that new Matoran and etc do not come about the way new humans do… Aka no reproduction. The GB’s secret method sj where they come from, and I assume the same goes for all MUI. I believe the reason any MUI inhabitants would benefit from eating one another is because perhaps, like @CydonPrax said, their digestive systems have the ability to turn the protodermis armor I to something useful, though I would say it has more to do with normal nutrition than reproduction, since I don’t believe MUI can reproduce.
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