That’s not helpful at all. If you’re implying that the people wanting the contests to end are the reason they’ve been negative, that’s just not the case. Such people have been a decidedly quiet minority thus far, and plenty of inflammatory remarks from people who like the contests have contributed to the overall negativity.
Yes–we could abandon the contests. That would result in a break of all discussions on the topic.
It’s what Lego did do, regardless of why.
That no longer matters, though. The rules have done their work. There’s nothing that we can get by going back and forth about it anymore.
Alright, this is hard to be certain about because it’s a hypothetical, but knowing Greg…I think he’d say “that’s not a Metru build.”
Look at his quotes on Nidhiki. He doesn’t think visually, but he does seem to have very clear, unshakeable ideas about what his characters should and shouldn’t be when he does make up certain details, and they’re also really oddly specific. That being the case, he’d probably stick to his incredibly-specific guns.
What I’m saying is, the negativity has nothing to do with the contests being inherently flawed. It’s the people that make things living hell. Just as easily as they’ve devolved into toxicity, these contests could be a net positive thing in the community if people would just not be so negative and egomaniacal.
Saying we have to abandon the contests to end the negativity is an exaggeration and everyone knows it. The only thing we need to do to end the arguing is to try, for one minute, to make something in a mile’s distance of an attempt at making the contests positive.
But I’m proving my own point. If you all wanna have your discussions again, go for it I guess. I’m out.
I mean, all right. I’m glad these contests make some people happy. I’ve seen some cool builds in them, and the creativity definitely surprises me.
If that is the case, then I… have to reluctantly agree that you are probably correct. A custom build would not match Greg’s view of canon, if you’re correct.
Yes, I’m still saying IF. I’ll grant, your view on his thought process is probably right. I just don’t want to say definitively what he would say.
Maybe I’m just being stubborn, I don’t know.
Again, that’s how you choose to intepret what Greg said. I’m choosing to intepret it differently. The difference between you and me is that I’m saying you can have your opinion and we can just agree to disagree. You’re saying that you’re right, that’s that, and that my opinion has no place in this canon contest. That attitude makes it impossible for us to have a genuine discussion.
For other Stars, yes, there actually is an in-universe change in armor, like Gresh[3] [4] [5] and Tahu,[5] but the Skrall is just regular, only green instead of red,[6] [7] and there is no definitive explanation for Takanuva or Nektann that I could find. Even outside of the Stars there are examples, namely Gold Good Guy, who was canonized as Turaga Lhikan,[8][9] despite having the same Great Hau instead of a Noble. Or how Ultimate Dume is (probably? there’s conflicting answers[10][11]) the same exact form as 2003 Makuta, only with wings.
And so you decide to mock people who say they should end, as if that somehow helps either side of the debate?
Speaking for myself, the only reason I brought up the metru debate again is to make the larger point that I and others don’t appreciate how TTV has been handling the contests, and so they should either stop completely, or be handled better. Until either happens, its a discussion that should continue to be had.
Literally no one disagrees with you. Like I said, things need to remain civil. If that can happen without ending the contests, great. If not, they should end too.
Well you guys been talking a lot about everything about what is cannon, also the polls are coming now you just wait for it whens it’s get here.
No I gotta side with the people who claim these contest are ultimately bad. While a part of me want them to continue a part of me also know I won’t be content with the results unless 75% of all winning builds are G1 and technic parts.
Bionicles world and worldbuilding is one of the things I enjoy most about Bionicle and will always be what I enjoy about Bionicle. Which I can experience through the toys and canon models that exists. I know I’ve been very heated in several debates in here about different aspects of the contest and I think its a protective measure from my part as I’m not convinced that this is what is best for Bionicle. Even though I voted for the contest when they first asked for it I realized now I should have said no. I don’t like having the one thing I enjoy about Bionicle being threaten over and over again and that makes me overly protective. I said yes because I thought people had more of a consenus of what canon was boi were I wrong.
I personally think the Bionicle world is quite cohesive and works well but I know from these contest that not everyone agrees and that most people just want the best builds to win with no regard if it actually fit the place it needs to fill. However I also know that unless they implement a parts percentage rule I’m not gonna stop being protective of my enjoyment of Bionicle and I know that’s to the detriment of others and I hate that I need to be so instictive about this but I cannot so easily change why I enjoy something if its been the reason for that enjoyment for such a long time. I grew up with the toys and not the story which has a part in it as well.
What I’m trying to say is I want to apologize for my behavior, not my opinions but my overall behaviour I know I should try and calm down but its not easy when people constantly tries to invalidate your enjoyment of something or if something makes you feel your enjoyment is being threatend.
If we get another poll about whether or not we should continue these contest I’ll say no we shouldn’t without a shadow of a doubt because through this contest I’ve made more enemies than I’ve had for the 7 years I’ve been part of this community. If this should be something to strenghten the community that shouldn’t happen regardless of opinons. What I’m trying to saying is that the canon contest are way to controversial for their own good.
If we don’t get a poll about whether or not the contest should continue I’ll hope that TTV at least would consider implementing a parts percentage rules for all foreseable contest - Marendar(Because to be franc I think its the one you should be able to go most nuts with) . It would at least give TTV one headache less to deal with going forward. Also I know this is probably not a favorable ruling for everyone. I don’t mind custom builds that much to be honest the Hagah are really my only exception where I think builds should be retricted. However I do fell that the parts percentage rule would at least quell my concerns about the canon models not fullfilling a visual consitency or the desired cohesion of the world which I enjoy it for.
Finally here is a full definition of aforementiond hypothetical ruling.
“Your moc should consist of 75% G1 or technic parts”
Thank you all for reading my TEDtext
/Tarkur
Going back on what I said but I could not let that misunderstanding go.
I’m not making fun of the people who say the contests should end. I’m pointing out that “because they’ve been so negative” is a moot point, because the contests and the negativity have nothing to do with each other. It’s the people.
Maybe not in theory. But in practice … ?
I’mma be pedantic again. Everyone agrees that we should be civil, not that we should stop arguing.
I agree we should be civil. I want to agree that we should stop arguing about Metru Torsos, but I just keep seeing points I want to respond to and I lack restraint…
Essentially, the contradictions that arise from explaining the differences between each children toy sets with impromptu answers and stories were accumulated.
That is the cause of many differences in opinion arising from this debate.
I think we need to loosen up a little bit.
Man, it’s been awesome having these contests; I’m really looking forward to voting in this contest and future ones as well.
Also, I’ve been perfectly fine with the wait for the polls to open (it’s really helped me to unwind after the entry period).
Thanks so much to all you awesome peeps at TTV (and to Greg as well) for making this all possible!
This might be an obnoxious take, but I just want to throw it out there that canonization doesn’t have to ruin your own personal vision of the characters and story if you don’t let it. These contests are basically just an opportunity to showcase people’s headcanons and reward the fanbase for still caring. At this point these contests are made for a niche enough audience that the outcome doesn’t really change anything on a tangible level. You can still imagine the characters however you want, because there’s never going to be new material written about them. If Hoseryx is your headcanon Helryx, no one can stop you from envisioning her that way when you read back old material or write your own.
tl;dr “Canon” is completely arbitrary and there’s no reason these contests can’t just be harmless fun.
A somewhat controversial take, but not obnoxious.
An obnoxious take would be, “the crushing of your headcanons is what you deserve, you terrible fanbase”.
for legal reasons this is a joke, but I don’t get how these contests affecting canon are such a big deal to some people.
I could see how it could be disappointing to people, especially if they had a drastically different vision of a particular character. I’m personally quite happy with Helryx and Artakha, and am looking forward to future contests. (Well, I’m not totally happy with them but they’re good enough to me that I can ignore some of the small issues.)
Here’s an idea: What if instead of selecting one image to be canon, the top 3 or 5 entries get accepted to become semi-canon. To say, so and so generally looks something like this. Perhaps that would satisfy more people, while still accomplishing the goal of getting canon pictures of various characters.
I agree with this.
This argument gets brought up a lot, but nobody seems to like the idea of decanonizing future contests. If the canon truly doesn’t matter and people should just pretend whatever they want, nobody should be holding contests for it. I guarantee you get rid of a lot of arguments and negativity if the contest results are no longer canon.
I suppose that’s true. But I think that in these contests, the good outweighs the bad. Someone created a survey a few months back, and it showed that a majority of people like the results, and many people have commented on how much they love the new canon designs.
Rather than ending the contests, perhaps some of the nay-sayers should change their attitudes.
Not that I’m arguing the debates are good activity, no - especially not for my finger tendons and any hope of not getting canceled by a mob of twitter users 30 years from now. But the massive explosion of Metru build content, contest entries, and general activity is second to none, and the best efforts of the Bionicle community elsewhere can’t begin to compare.
Although, maybe it’s less about the canon contests being a source of vitriol and just the Bionicle community being toxic given the opportunity… But, I too am part of the debates, and the topic of the most recent one…
If you have to apologize to Ghid you’ve gone too far
I mean, eight likes really isn’t that much…
If the post was theoretically solely to generate a reaction with a certain expectation in mind, it would have absolutely worked. And it was immediately contested by you, viewing it as malicious and vengeful, which speaks more than your current argument does, as you reacted stronger than anyone else to the suggestion.
Now I’m not saying your reaction was unjustified, although excessive. It’s just that prior posts have indicated the canon contests are causing too much stress and drama for everyone involved, and maybe it’s not one party responsible for that level of back-and-forth digital fisticuffs, but all parties - those voting in favor of the contests and those campaigning against them.
The solution is not to cancel the contest, as I now speak to nobody in particular@n01inparticular if you make that joke I will gut you and use your ribcage as a grill rack, but as my response posts stated earlier, to have fun. Once the rules are decided, everybody should really try to loosen up, as the #1 thing to argue about is over and done - nothing can reverse it.
(And even in that, arguments have been made with an unwanted severity as if the one aspect being altered would make the final product non-canon, further encouraging the mindset my post was promoting. It’s never one group’s fault, no matter who says it is.)
Quick comment on this as this is a huge opinion piece: Eljay likely barred custom builds because everyone was ripping each other to pieces over the argument and nobody - not anyone - was finding common ground. Appease the torso group and avoid nuclear fallout, and the custom group can wait till next contest.
No, he didn’t have much of a canon reason, and I don’t agree with his choice, but I absolutely understand it.
Or, y’know… Join the discussion of the rules and make sound logical arguments to illustrate why your side is superior. I firmly believe if one side had enough well-spoken and calm people on it they would have easily won for demonstrating higher self control, but there were very few (and I was not one of them).
Which is basically what TTV’s been saying this whole time. The activity has been overwhelmingly positive, and the vocal minority against them has been very vocal, but also very small. I’m not saying those opposed should lay down their arms and never speak again (although reiterating the same statement 50 times doesn’t help), but I am saying some arguments that don’t disappoint literally everyone in favor of the contests would help their side.
And… That’s all I’ve got to comment, unless someone wants to go on a hopefully related side tangent here as the discussion has arced back into arguing about an argument about an argument. I miss Kini and his promising to ban people
Leaving it with the sentiment we should attempt before dumping the entire thing:
I mean, yeah, if everyone could just get along things would be great. Does anyone truly expect that to happen?
