I’m not worried about that. I had stated above, but the community is already familiar with adding that to regular metru builds. I think just letting it look like Norik and Iruini is enough, because the option to modify if desired is still open to people. But thats just how I see it. 
Personally I would see it as a waste of potential building skills, limiting it to follow those two sets doesn’t really let you do anything interesting build-wise, which is I think most of the fun in competitions like these.
But, to each their own I suppose.
Its really so common and easy by this point is it actually doing something special either way? Personally to me it shows no higher level of skill to make the shoulders articulate. Its just a visual preference that makes it look more cohesive to me at this point. And if you want, it can be changed amongst the personal collection.
There are six more Toa getting contests that you can go wild with, the Hagah are the only ones that should be limited to fitting in with their set teammates. If someone wants to do something wild, custom, or out there with their Toa builds, they can wait until after the Hagah imo.
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Oh, I’m not doing the standard way to add shoulder articulation I’ve seen, I think my way looks a bit nicer than that, but you can be the judge of that yourself once the competition starts.
Oh, I’m not proposing I should “go wild”, mine still look fairly similar to the original two sets, just, fleshed out a little more I think. And a filled in waist.
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Is there anyone here who wants to enter the contest with mocs in a very closely traditional style, but not going to enter all four Hagah? I don’t think I’ll be entering all four, and as such, I wouldn’t mind collaborating with one or more person for better team style and unity.
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Then how on earth are we meant to vote? To quote something I told someone else a few weeks back, before the discussion really started to pick up:
“I’m going to be honest and say that this is most likely the exact same thing lots of people are going to do - variations on the Metru Build. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but you’ll need to be able to have features that really differentiate yours, both from other entries and amongst your own individual builds.”
Matching aesthetic within a build, finding subtle ways to set yours apart - that, in my eyes, is going to be the deciding factor(s) of the winning MOCs.
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I think you misinterpreted me, I didn’t mean IDENTICAL clones of Iruini and Norik, I meant the same standard articulation points as them, context.
I see. My quote and comment still stand, in that case.
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Norik and Iruini themselves have the same build and function, and yet, people still want to own both. I do intend on them having subtle differences as well, but I don’t think they need to be CRAZY or have more articulation points.
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As I’ve mentioned, while they are decent sets I think there are clear areas of improvement, and it would be a shame not to take advantage of this contest to address some of those shortcomings while sticking to the same general aesthetic they laid out.
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I get why you think that, but to me, it just sounds when people say that, that they want to inject this
Into this
And to me that just seems very off
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IF every single entry had an identical build to Norik and Iruini (at least in terms of torso and articulation), you could still vote on metallic armour (colour, placement, and shape), Kanohi shape, and spearhead. Granted, that still isn’t much, but it’s something.
For all this discussion, I feel like there will still be enough variety in the entries that everyone will have something to vote for.
If you want the Hagah to have the same basic build as Norik and Iruini, with little to no custom construction, there will be plenty of options for that. I don’t think it is necessary or fair to mandate that. (I am talking about limbs here too, not just torso. I am on the fence about mandating the torso piece, but I am firmly against mandating that the limb structure be the same as well, especially if the torso piece ends up being mandatory.)
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Right. I’ve been watching this discussion go down and frankly, I’m genuinely surprised with just how wack some of these takes - and how poor some of these arguments are. I’m sure when it comes time there’ll be no restriction on the torso construction anyway and people will be allowed to use whatever amalgamation of parts that they want to, but that goes against the point of calling this a “canon” contest, rather than just some custom build, or revamp contest if you ask me.
The idea is to get the canon depiction of these characters, and I’d personally consider actively going against what canon details we already have for these characters for the sake of being ‘creative’ to be in bad faith.
The remaining Toa Hagah are of a Metru build, like Toa Norik and Toa Iruni, and Greg has clarified this; specifically talking about their body. - Pretty cut and dry.
Norik and Iruni have different armour to the Toa Metru and Lhikan sets, as well as different armour to each other. This is also the case for their lower limbs. As far as identifying what exactly makes a “Metru build”, I’d say it’s a good place to start with the similarities between all the sets that are considered one, but I think you could safely boil it down to just the torso piece, and roughly similar scale/proportions.
If I were to propose a rule for the Hagah contests, it would be:
“Your build must use 1 (no more, no less) Metru torso gearbox piece (part: 47395) in the torso’s construction, and scale with the existing Toa Hagah canister sets.
(basically don’t build a titan and just hide the torso piece inside)”
IMO, that should balance having a restriction to ensure the winning entry is canon-compliant (as a canon model should be) - with all the room for creative freedom everywhere else, within reason.
I mean, have you seen what people are able to do around a Metru build anyway?
What the people advocating for “muh creativity” need to understand is this is a Hagah contest. We already have 2/6 of them, and we know the rest should have the same body build, and look pretty similar. The end result should be a whole team that fits next to the official sets, not have any that stick out like a sore thumb literally just for the sake of it.
None of the custom torsos I’ve seen here even do anything that the Metru torso doesn’t already accomplish - actually, most of them are inferior as they can’t accommodate a working gearbox.
But beyond that, what is the point of a custom torso completely replicating the original?
The argument that it doesn’t matter so long as the art portion (if we even have a separate art portion for this contest…) changes the appearance to use a Metru torso piece is redundant - if it’s going to look like it should in the end anyway, there’s no reason for it to look different at any point in between, and potentially have the “canon model” be non-canon from the moment it was entered. It’s also a ridiculous double standard to enforce such a restriction on the artists, but not on the builders.
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So, to recap, here is the ruleset I’m pushing for.
- Moc contests for each Toa individually
- Custom torsos are allowed. If one wins, it canonically becomes a variation of the mettur build. If you don’t like custom torsos, don’t vote for them.
- 3d weapons and masks are allowed.
- Placeholder shield, or no shield, is allowed; art must draw the rhotuka launching shield, however.
- Art contest for all four together (norik and iruini optional but encouraged)
- Art CANNOT alter the mask shape of the winning mocs, but is allowed to alter mettalic colours.
- Art can recolour the mask to match the metallic armour, but not to another colour (for example, if the winning gaaki moc has a Metru blue mask, you can recolour it to silver, but if it already has a silver mask, you can’t recolour it blue)
- Art cannot recolour non-mettalic parts to be mettalic, or vice versa. So, if the winning gaaki moc has blue shoulder pads, you cannot recolour them silver. The only exception is the mask, which can be recoloured to mettalic.
I think that this is the most balanced ruleset, accommodating for everything: custom torsos, mettalic colour balance, 3d parts, and making something for both moc and art to contribute.
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Everyone agrees that the Hagah are Metru builds. That is not up for debate. What is up for debate, as you pointed out is the definition of a Metru build, and there is no Greg quote for that.
That purple one with the inverted torso makes a great case for the torso being mandatory: if we just tried to define a Metru build off of proportions alone, this purple one would actually get disqualified, despite the fact that we can probably all agree it should be considered a Metru build. I think the solution is to mandate the torso, but then open up the restrictions on proportions a little.
I fully support every single one of those rules, except for 2: the one about custom torsos, which I am indifferent towards, and the one about changing the metallic colour itself, which I actively oppose. You’d be modifying the MOCs to achieve a goal that isn’t even canon.
And besides, there’s no guarantee that this rule would even do what you want it to. What if I decided to try my hand at art and make all of them pink?
(I really, really like the idea of changing the mask colour though, since it opens up mask opportunities while not requiring painted parts.)
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Big agree, same applies to nidhiki’s volitak needing to be green which I’ve mentioned as well.
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Then those like me who want balance can choose not to vote for it, and those who don’t care can vote for it if they want pink Toa and like your art.
It’s not that complicated. It gives a chance of balance, not a guarantee. Because otherwise, general rule of random chance basically guarantees they will be unbalanced.
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I guess so. I still don’t really like the idea, but I could always just vote for ones that don’t change the colours.
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You mean his Kualsi-shaped Volitak? 
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